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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> RE: sorry to interrupt

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RE: sorry to interrupt - 2/15/2020 3:39:05 PM

loki100

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thanks, its the 1.02.59 beta version

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Post #: 121

RE: T57 - mauling St Malo - 2/16/2020 1:06:15 AM

EwaldvonKleist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Do think the map could be improved by marking particularly nice places to visit, breweries and vineyards of note etc ... the sort of things that should influence the choices of both players?

Here you are

Southern France should be invaded immediately.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 2/16/2020 1:11:39 AM >

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The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

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Post #: 122

T58 - lunging for Paris - 2/19/2020 6:10:59 AM

loki100

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T58 � 5 August 1944

The v-weapons are becoming rather annoying, but by recent turns a total of only -1 VP is not too bad. Only thing I can now do is to try to turn the VP for combat losses into city VP.

Used the tactical air for very direct missions against German positions at La Spezia and in Picardy. Strategic air war was divided into hunting v-weapons and a large BC/8AAF attack on Berlin.

The combined Berlin raid was reported as a success, not least for the heavy German fighter losses � in truth, only for the German fighters, those AFV numbers are too good to be true.

The combined v-weapon missions hit some targets but I am clearly missing something large.

In Italy, despite massive naval support, La Spezia beat off one attack but was taken at the second attempt.

Time to let 5 Army have a rest.

Took the chance to clean up the front lines on the 8 Army sector and reduce the frontage so as to release as much as possible to refit. Still have a lot of rough terrain to clear or I need to commit my airpower to a multi-turn operation on the Montona.

Things were much more lively in France. 1 CA and 3 US started to clean up Brittany, St Brieuc taken and will repair this turn, have landed rail repair units to speed conversion.

The US and Canadian tanks head east. Have taken a few gambles in their advance but dropped off British tank brigades and US cavalry regiments at key locations or to protect my HQ units.

Biggest gamble was pushing 4 Canadian armour to Orleans � it can be cut off and I know there are German motorised formations on the sector but have air-dropped a lot of supply and even after that rapid advance it will be hard to beat.

But that leads us to the reason why I was prepared to gamble.

1 US and 2 British gained from their week off. I had a lot of the armour/motorised units with MP >40.

Started by clearing out Rouen and then methodically used the infantry to peal off the outer shell of the German defensive lines. Some reserve reactions but into a lot of interdiction by formations already bombed. I also used the fast moving brigades to put some plausible reserve formations into ZoCs to remove them from the fighting.

Then carved out a corridor south towards Paris. Spearhead was 52 British airlanding division being air transported to Pontoise. I think some players overlook how useful this is, it can secure airbases as your tanks move on or � as here � land on airbase you've cleared but can't reach.

I don't have brilliant levels of interdiction down the corridor but its enough to make movement harder, especially with 1 Polish blocking any easy retreat down the east bank of the Seine.

1SS Pzr is in the partial pocket and I assume that will get out, but I hope to get the equivalent of a couple of infantry divisions. I don't think my units can be cut off but have kept 2 US armoured divisions back as a reserve for next turn. Ideally they are the exploitation force, otherwise they can re-open any encirclement.

Fairly predictably, that is not going to do my VP score much good, but hopefully it'll trigger a shift to more mobile warfare.

Air losses, another bad turn for the German fighters, I also seem to have caught quite a few transport planes.

On the subject of the air war, not actually any better than the 1944 Spitfires or the Mustangs, but one does feel one has to support local manufacturing.

Quick sight of the OOB. I have a lot of damaged tanks � not a surprise given how much the armoured formations have just moved and fought.

Given Orleans, I think a good random picture will be 4 Canadian armour moving into a French town?

And the results of the real Allied assault on Rouen.

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Post #: 123

T59 - Lounging around in Italy - 2/20/2020 6:26:39 AM

loki100

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T59 � 12 August 1944

VP fairly predictable after last turn. At least the city score is moving in my favour and I seem to have found some of the v-weapons.

So with them removed for a while, and a lot of low level morale bomber formations, switched to easier targets. Basically a tank production hunt but the only relative success was 8 AAF around Kassel. Again not sure I believe the results but that must be helping.

Content to rest in Italy, not least my more limited airpower needs to carefully managed.

Break the French action into three sectors. Brittany looks like I'll get more or less for free. Nothing but FZ to deal with (same at Cherbourg). Still being a bit cautious in protecting some key hexes or the rail repair units.

If this is the case then that is some infantry, and a lot of artillery, that will be available much quicker than I expected.

South of Paris. The annoying German motorised brigades were predictably annoying cutting stuff off but nothing permanent. The Canadians were encircled at Orleans but regained a link (& dropped them more supply). One of the motorised brigades was caught just south of Le Mans and routed.

Cut off the German infantry along the Seine. The pocket should hold unless the Germans really make a strong counter-attack.

So to the main action. The Germans retook the airbase from my airlanding division.

I think they made a small tactical error in trying to pull out all the bypassed infantry, the result was no ZoC on the supply lines to my units that were in the salient so they mostly refilled all their fuel and the mobile units had well over 40 MP.

The result was the US formations cleared a corridor west, splitting up the German defensive line.

XXX Corps had a harder time of it (the hex with 3 battles) as an SS Pzr division wouldn't take the hint. The bypassed infantry will get out easily enough but that will force the Germans to take some sort of action, just to enable them to retreat.

The British paras south of Amiens can also be cut off but it all helps to fragment the battlefield.

To add to this fragmentation, there is a fair bit of interdiction around the Paras and over the US corridor. Also covering any direct move from near Orleans north to Paris.

In effect, what I'm trying to do is to escalate the problems. Any one of my gambles is highly vulnerable but I think the Germans can't respond to them all, especially with my interdiction adding in extra constraints.

I'm not exactly reducing my losses but am killing off some exotic tanks. No idea how I knocked out so many King Tigers, there were 10 or so with Pzr Lehr where the US formations attacked. My guess is the rest were taken out moving/retreating under my interdiction.

If so, I'm rather pleased I did bomb the production centre.

Not shown but the partisan effort is making an increasing mess of the German rail net in SE and SW France. Transit up/down the Rhone valley is becoming difficult and the rail line to the east of the river is cut in a number of places.

So next turn could be interesting.

Supply to US 3 Army south of Paris is holding up so the scope to keep probing around their flank exists (especially with all the US armoured cavalry formations). Be interesting to see how they respond between Paris and Amiens, in terms of a direct threat that is the most important sector and I think most of their Pzr formations there have had a multiple battering. If I've misjudged it could be rather grim.

And in Italy, my airforce is rested and the mobile units pulled back for a refit. Since Hermann and Schmalz have gone to fight the Red Army they can't have that much of a mobile reserve.

And, I do need to start liberating the vineyards of S France.

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Post #: 124

RE: T59 - Lounging around in Italy - 2/20/2020 10:00:55 PM

BrianG

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quote:

Not shown but the partisan effort is making an increasing mess of the German rail net in SE and SW France. Transit up/down the Rhone valley is becoming difficult and the rail line to the east of the river is cut in a number of places.

Another learning question

How do you view this damage. Do you look at each hex? Me, I would love to have this info in one quick step.

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Post #: 125

RE: T59 - Lounging around in Italy - 2/21/2020 7:13:16 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

quote:

Not shown but the partisan effort is making an increasing mess of the German rail net in SE and SW France. Transit up/down the Rhone valley is becoming difficult and the rail line to the east of the river is cut in a number of places.

Another learning question

How do you view this damage. Do you look at each hex? Me, I would love to have this info in one quick step.

you have to go hex by hex, but you can usually see clues such as very high rail usage and then almost nothing - that tends to show the breaks. Also I'm not interested in what is happening around say Bordeaux but I am keeping an eye on the Rhone corridor as that has some bearing on the upcoming 'Operation liberate the Bandol'.

I think if you had the equivalent of the rail damage map mode for your opponent it would be a help. Everything you need usage/breaks/where their rail heads are can be picked up from mousing over hexes.

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Post #: 126

T60 - Liberating the Loire wines - 2/22/2020 6:46:54 AM

loki100

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T60 � 19 August 1944

So usual view of the VP chart. Obviously the V-weapons are a source of concern, not really getting losses under control ... as in other posts am now hoping for the trade off in terms of VP city.

Strategic airwar is mostly a v-weapon and tank factory hunt. Italy have a lot of planes due to the recent pause so see if I can open up opportunities on the eastern flank.

Since the Germans have largely disengaged in N France, take the chance to give most of FB a well earned rest. S France, operation 'I need a glass of Bandol' commences � spearheaded by 1 FF Army and a lot of British and American bombers looking for the Luftwaffe.

Results unremarkable, apart from destroying around 100 German planes on the ground in S France. That'll help (hopefully) make this invasion round less grim than previous efforts.

So Italy after a rest started to make some small gains. Cleared out the Germans near La Spezia then up the pass west of Forli. Couldn't occupy the final hex I attacked but that has usefully stripped out an existing level 3 fort in a hex that is otherwise just light woods.

Small gain near Pistoia as that gives me 3 hexes on a rough terrain hex on the valley leading to Bologna.

Apart from city VP in the Po valley, the only real reason for this is to tie down axis forces and the unlikely chance of an early capture of Milan. If so that'll stop the auto-return of destroyed German units but most likely by the time I take it they can't generate the elements needed to replace destroyed units in any case.

S France invasion, should be enough, especially as the Rhone valley is increasingly disrupted by partisans � and threatened by the mobile elements of 3 Army.

Picardy, actually gave 2 British and 1 US a week off. Substantial German retreat meant I couldn't really manage any useful attacks, so forced all the bypassed units to surrender and surrounded Paris. Looks like its held by a weak set of regiments.

Looking at the defensive set up, 1 US army will get caught up on the Somme but can probably push on towards Cambrai. 2 British is well placed to link up with 3 US and push along the Marne to the Meuse. That'll stretch or outflank any defense on the current front line.

Brittany � Brest falls at first attack, after a lot of bombing and supported by naval gunfire. It'll take a while to repair but a level 6 port will really help supply airbases around the Paris area � often a good place to relocate 15 AAF for the late game.

To the south. I'm being a bit cautious but took Bourges which will add to my VP collection. Opting to rout out German brigades rather than bother to surround them. The region around Tours will flip to my control � improving the wine supplies to the Allied forces.

L'Orient should fall next turn, then St Nazaire, I'm sending freshly arrived infantry divisions to take Cherbourg (port and less of a V-weapon threat). I'll also use those released, second rate, British divisions for this sort of campaign.

Ground losses � not bad by recent standards and around 2,000 of those are connected with the naval invasion.

So that ends the battles around the landings and initial expansion. A reasonable haul of infantry formations surrendered but nothing of great value. At least they will clutter up the German replacement schedule.

In the east, the Soviets are near Warsaw and have taken most of Romania.

And here is a near meaningless overview of the overall war in the West.

And my rail net � pity I have almost no trains to run on it.

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Post #: 127

T61 - celebrating in Paris - 2/22/2020 4:08:50 PM

loki100

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T61 � 26 August 1944

So summer is almost over.

Given that invading S France provoked the predictable response I guess I shouldn't be too surprised but at some stage this has to stop slowly shedding VP.

In reality its going to fall till I start capturing German cities � as these give dual city and bombing VP. I get some of this now but its minimal and only related to cities where there was a fuel/oil factory.

Another pause in the strategic bombing as 8 AAF hit the German units in Paris and 15 AAF committed to the ground operations in Italy and reclaiming the sea lanes off S France. Keeping an AS mission going in the Baltic region, I'm sure the local German fighters appreciate me not forgetting about them.

Knocked out another 100 German planes on the ground, even committed the Mosquito FB/LB from the UK to the Rhone valley to join in hitting suspected targets (in this case the large bases around Lyon).

Worth mentioning how this operates when you target air bases but are not sure which/any have planes. The first round of bombing can be ineffective but as you gain recon (and you can do this by combat as well as by conventional recon), then the algorithm will target bases with planes. So in effect you waste one, maybe two days bombing and then concentrate on the better targets.

In combination that regained control over the sea zones. Given their LB losses both in the air and on the ground I doubt they can repeat their effort next turn. I'm probably wrong as I suspect this is seen as the last chance to make use of the Luftwaffe to do some damage.

In Brittany L'Orient taken, should be able to take St Nazaire next turn. Campaign of hex flipping by both sides but I'm steadily adding extra cities to my control.

Paris fell after massive unit bombing had shattered the defenders.

Pushed British armour east and took Reims. US armour entered Cambrai-Arras-St Quentin and overran the garrison at L'Etaples (a level 1 port so surprisingly useful).

I'm being cautious in the speed of my advance, but taking Paris will free up quite a lot of units � and, when repaired, give me some trains.

S France, small breakout, and managed to land all the secondary units. That'll help a lot to reduce further losses.

Oddly, Italy saw the most complex operations. At a second attempt US tanks cleared the woods hex behind Forli allowing the ever mobile New Zealanders to press forward and in turn clear the German defenders out of the rail hex behind Forli.

An attack then cleared the Germans from one of the mountain hexes interdicting this narrow salient, allowing 6 SA armoured division to exploit almost up to Ravenna. This may well be beaten back so I opted to weaken the PzrGr formation holding the Montona line with a spoiling attack.

5 Army then launched a couple of attacks on the formation NE of Pistoia creating more salients (for the moment these are what I want) and coming to one hex of a breakout towards Bologna.

Guess at least the ground loss ratio has shifted in my favour.

Helped by a few more surrenders. Still all second rate stuff but it gradually adds up.

And since Paris actually fell on the right date, here's a random image of a banner being held upside down:

So lets have a wee side chat about what now.

The immediate big prizes are Antwerp and Brussels. Antwerp, repaired, will supply me into the Reich (once I clear the Scheldt). Equally operating on the coast means I have easier supply (helped by the small ports in the Pas de Calais/Flanders).

A further advantage is its mostly clear terrain, which optimises my bombing and is close enough to the UK that I can largely keep my airforce there � so that avoids additional supply problems.

A later advantage is this sector leads to Maastricht.

This in turn opens up the Rhineland and is by far the best route to the Reich proper � Market Garden really was a daft idea at every level. The terrain east of Arnhem is terrible with large rivers, canals and swamps, even if the allies had held it, it was a dead-end.

So no choice really?

Well, the issue is of course that the German player can look at exactly the same map and come up with the same analysis. While there are no significant N-S river lines there are plenty of cities that can be turned into strong points. So progress will tend to slow.
If I go south of the Ardennes it is clear terrain all the way to the Moselle. That is a major barrier but behind it is the clear terrain of the Saarland.

I'd still have to find the resources to fight in Belgium but I'll have US 9A and the Canadian formations currently taking the Breton ports available.

Its a longer way to Berlin.

Its VP light and can only be supplied by being ruthless in supply allocation.

I'll need to move a lot of tactical air to France (this is where the longer range Mosquitos become invaluable).

I can't do both at the same time.

At the moment, somewhat unintentionally, I'm well deployed to go south of the Ardennes.

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Post #: 128

RE: T61 - celebrating in Paris - 2/22/2020 5:59:15 PM

BrianG

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U bombed Paris.

That should be a big vp demerit!

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Post #: 129

RE: T61 - celebrating in Paris - 2/22/2020 7:13:43 PM

GloriousRuse

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As much as I desperately need VP, it has to be pointed out that the allied player doesn�t get the advantage of a city wide resistance uprising fighting a battle for a week before they arrive...

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Post #: 130

RE: T61 - celebrating in Paris - 2/22/2020 7:16:12 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

U bombed Paris.

That should be a big vp demerit!

agree, Overy's study of strategic bombing (the Bombing War) has a really interesting chapter on Anglo-American operations in occupied Europe and the political issues that created, as well as the variable effect on the morale in the occupied countries. That was very mixed, at one level, the bombing indicated that the Germans oould lose the war, but of course it was their jobs/homes/lives that were being lost.

But in game, I really like the GA-unit with lots of level bombers approach. I reduced that defending force from over 200 cv to near 0 simply by disrupting almost every combat element.

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Post #: 131

T62 - Disputing Provence - 2/23/2020 8:06:32 AM

loki100

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T62 � 2 September 1944

Not a good opening view:

At least that made planning my air missions fairly clear � v weapons and the Luftwaffe. Knocked out another 130 planes on the ground plus 8 AAF won its duels in the Baltic.

Also cleared off all the axis naval interdiction in S France.

Again just an aside on this. An AS has the effect of reducing the existing enemy interdiction, your own interdiction missions simply improve your side of the score.

Brittany � St Nazaire taken. Rest of N France moved into contact with the German defensive line. Took Boulogne and a few more cities as well as over-ran V-weapon launch pads.

Pushed enough into contact to give me combat recon for next turn but holding a lot back. Still not sure what to do with 2 Br Army but 3 US is pushing at the open terrain into Lorraine.

S France, small gains around the bridgehead, but may need to reinforce. No great hurry so see what happens.

Italy, again surprisingly active. 2 SS and 116 Pzr counterattacked my South Africans but in turn were heavily bombed.

Extended my salient and then took Forli after 2 attacks. This basically sets up a battle in clear terrain � if need be, I'll rest a couple of turns to take full advantage.

Losses, still too high but there we are.

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Post #: 132

RE: T59 - Lounging around in Italy - 2/23/2020 8:30:27 AM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

quote:

Not shown but the partisan effort is making an increasing mess of the German rail net in SE and SW France. Transit up/down the Rhone valley is becoming difficult and the rail line to the east of the river is cut in a number of places.

Another learning question

How do you view this damage. Do you look at each hex? Me, I would love to have this info in one quick step.

you have to go hex by hex, but you can usually see clues such as very high rail usage and then almost nothing - that tends to show the breaks. Also I'm not interested in what is happening around say Bordeaux but I am keeping an eye on the Rhone corridor as that has some bearing on the upcoming 'Operation liberate the Bandol'.

I think if you had the equivalent of the rail damage map mode for your opponent it would be a help. Everything you need usage/breaks/where their rail heads are can be picked up from mousing over hexes.

Just coming back to this, you can use the strategic recon map mode, if the flip happened in a hex with manpower then that will show as red (100% damage), so gives you a feel for where their rail net is near complete collapse and where problems might be more isolated:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 133

T63 - sipping Champagne - 2/24/2020 7:25:08 AM

loki100

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T63 � 9 September 1944

Oh well, not too bad, just need to find the v-weapons.

Germans cut off the S France landings again.

As last turn, this has some advantages in that I don't have much choice. Need to reopen the sea-lanes, may as well bomb the Luftwaffe and hunt v-weapons. Also do another round of targetting the Me-262 production.

Good thing is that 2 Tactical Air is almost all available after a few weeks of rest so can place a lot of interdiction along the Franco-Belgian border.

Only destroyed 50 planes on the ground, reports that the Strategic bombing mostly hit the desired targets and clear off German interdiction from S France.

Clear Cherbourg, Calais and Dunkirk (those 2 will function next rurn), redeploying for the second group of Atlantic ports.

Bayonne has self-liberated � not that it makes much difference.

3 Army carries on a campaign of skirmishishes and swapping hexes as it presses towards the Rhone valley. Its main combat formations encounter a German defensive line around Verdun.

Elements of 1 US and the bulk of 2 British attack towards Charleroi-Mons and despite some holds cross the Belgian border. Advance is well protected by interdiction and have kept a few units back as a reserve.

S France landings remain mostly on the defensive � small attack to gain some mobility.

Italy offers more opportunities for the moment. Clear the rough ground S of Bologna and cut in behind Ravenna reaching the Reno.

Losses, for once I didn't lose too many tanks.

I think the VP consequences will depend on how well I did at spotting any functioning v-weapon factories.

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Post #: 134

RE: T63 - sipping Champagne - 2/24/2020 6:44:57 PM

HermanGraf

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Could somebody explain the German losses?! Good lord! 30k - 8k?!?! What is going on?!

After playing a lot myself and reading these AARs, the German player must feel pretty hopeless in 1944.. What can be done to turn it around? Even against the AI, the Luftwaffe can inflict MASSIVE casualties, but all to no avail... You can have ambushes set up with hundreds of planes in the air, however the Allies will just return next turn. You can even save certain formations and try to keep those hero aces as long as possible, but it still won't dent the allied pressure. I do wish there was some sort of control over production or reinforcements and where they go.

I can eat my own words and say the situation is pretty hopeless at this point (historically).. I'm just looking for another strategy for the Germans besides, lose...

< Message edited by HermanGraf -- 2/24/2020 6:45:22 PM >

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Post #: 135

RE: T63 - sipping Champagne - 2/24/2020 7:29:32 PM

GloriousRuse

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The losses are explained by a few things:

1) Pocket clean up. Loki has been busily savaging those forces he trapped near Paris, and the occasional unit that was too slow somewhere else in France. My pile of units needing rebuild or disband grew quite significantly.

2) Port clean up. I left most of the ports very lightly defended, on the theory they were going to fall no matter what, and that with plenty of naval gunfire and super heavy artillery it would be quick business regardless of what I left in there. Talking with Loki, I may have left it a bit too light and probably could have extracted a greater toll in time and lives for even a small investment on my part. Regardless, every surrendered port is thousands of men.

3) Less dramatically, but still notably, German infantry is beginning to shed its effectiveness after the NM drop worked through the system. Which means attacks are often inflicting as many or more losses than they suffer.

4) Loki is bombing the ^*%$ out of me.

And yes, it is grim. Up until you lose your shot at the beachhead VP, as the Germans you can hold on to the hope that you�ll get a killer move off. Break a landing. Really bleed out an attack in Italy until it has to stop. Maybe cut off and cut up some corps somewhere. Get the no-landing VPs. Hell, maybe even stop the post beachhead expansion long enough to still be fighting in France come fall - there�s an ASR here where it happened (though I think the Axis player was banned for cheating, so who knows how practical that is in reality).

But after you watch the Allies break out and see what used to be just a few really uncontainable spearheads become a wave of 10+ CV divisions moving at armor speed...you realize you can�t �win� the game anymore. Maybe you�ll eke out a minor or draw if the Allies bleed too much, but you won�t be able to break their plans anymore. Which runs counter to most people�s instincts.

Honestly, if you�ve ever seen The Battle of the Bulge, the scene where they all start singing the panzerlied before the attack about sums it up. You know that you really don�t have the resources, but there are moments where you see that for once the odds are in your favor and you think you have a chance, and that you could really achieve something. Then reality hits.

The moment where that reality finally pounds itself in is as the breakout gets going.

That being said, Loki has been extremely generous to me. He has on a few occasions realized that my inexperience with the Germans and PBEM dynamics has led to pretty bad outcomes. In those situations he has usually asked me if I�d like a re-try to avoid disaster. Which is both very sportsmanlike, and also means that these last thirty turns can still be enjoyed in a fashion that is only a little masochistic. Also, he has let me run tests on old files, which has been extremely helpful in technical work.

I wouldn�t say I�m anywhere near �competent� yet, but hopefully at least �not a terrifyingly easy walkover; why not just play the AI� level opponent.

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Post #: 136

RE: T63 - sipping Champagne - 2/24/2020 7:49:31 PM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

Could somebody explain the German losses?! Good lord! 30k - 8k?!?! What is going on?!

After playing a lot myself and reading these AARs, the German player must feel pretty hopeless in 1944.. What can be done to turn it around? Even against the AI, the Luftwaffe can inflict MASSIVE casualties, but all to no avail... You can have ambushes set up with hundreds of planes in the air, however the Allies will just return next turn. You can even save certain formations and try to keep those hero aces as long as possible, but it still won't dent the allied pressure. I do wish there was some sort of control over production or reinforcements and where they go.

I can eat my own words and say the situation is pretty hopeless at this point (historically).. I'm just looking for another strategy for the Germans besides, lose...

As GR has said, the loss ratio is currently distorted by surrenders, those fixed German garrison units in the ports and the associated SU are 5-7,000 men each, I've attached the Cherbourg battle from a few turns back as an eg.

re the air, this is worth repeating, the bottleneck for the allies is not plane losses (apart from CW Recon you can always juggle plane types if you hit a specific shortage), its morale. There is no point flying stuff under 50, certainly not under 45 morale as they will tend to abort the attack (but take losses), you also need to watch for fatigue >20.

So for the Germans, in terms of the allied airforces, oddly its damage you want as damage=low morale=air groups resting.

There is no way can you as the German player avoid the collapse to under-trained air crews for most formations later in 1944, and once this happens the air war is over (low experience pilots die in the WiTx game system), but of course come late autumn 1944 the air war becomes meaningless, the allies get little for strat bombing and the winter weather is a bigger hit on their tactical airpower than anything you can do.

But yes, come late 44 its all about clinging on. I'm testing WiTE2 and believe me its even worse over in the east at this stage.

But there is huge sport to be had from 'being annoying' and looking for all sorts of pointless but fun gambits

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by loki100 -- 2/24/2020 7:50:05 PM >

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Post #: 137

T64 - surfing down to Bayonne - 2/24/2020 7:56:05 PM

loki100

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T64 � 16 September 1944

Well that is a welcome change, clearly all that effort for the v-weapon production has paid off. Despite this, keep the B-17s in the Baltic, some other good targets there and I can use my fighters to hunt the Luftwaffe.

If I believe the reports, then not only a lot of damage to my chosen tank and aircraft factories but also a nice wider cull of HI and Fuel. 15 AAF reports a happy return to Steyr.

No sight of the Luftwaffe apart from a few planes over N Italy but they had been bombing in their turn.

For the secondary fronts in France, La Rochelle fell, onto securing the claret stocks.

3 Army carries on its campaign of swapping hexes with the German motorised brigades. More importantly, aided by a paratroop drop it forced the Moselle and the well fuelled French tankers (well this is Burgundy after all) cut all the German rail links for the Rhone valley.

That actually cuts off the Germans to the west of the 1FF Army from rail supply as the mountain rails are all cut by partisans.

Gained a bit more space and helps secure my eastern flank.

Of more importance is the fighting in Wallonia. 1 US Army made some useful gains around Lille-Valenciennes and that allowed 2 British to exploit through Charleroi and along the Dijle.

I'm managing the supply problems by setting most corps (even here) to #2 and then keeping 1 US and 1 British corps at #4. Thats keeping some of my mobile units with MP > 40.

Other bit is if I lose a battle, my cv plummets and seeing much the same for the Germans. As I have the equivalent of 2 corps filling in from the port battles I can start to do more resting. My hope is with the Pzrs I'm seeing the reward for bombing their tank production as well as the near constant pressure.

I've also moved over those second rate British infantry formations. They will help with flank security and again ease issues of rotating out fatigued combat divisions.

One concern is that as far as I can tell from the recon the Pzrs are not committed to this defensive sector. Depending on how much I motorise the units moving up, there might be a one or turn opportunity for a counter-offensive in Lorraine. There is a cluster of unidentified units around Bitburg but that is most likely to be FZ digging a defensive line (as Bitburg gives a good route to Cologne).

NE Italy, make more gains around Ravenna-Bologna, worth trying to see if I can force the Ravenna garrison to surrender. Possibly be able to attack Bologna next turn.

With those losses, I expect a negative VP score again next turn.

Supply charts � suddenly of much more interest. At least I am ensuring that 1 US and 2 British receives what they need. Trying to suppress demand in 3 and 9 US (so units retain their trucks for movement). 1 FF has its first proper supply deliveries for 3 weeks.

Since we haven't had a random image for a few turns, here is one of Bayonne waiting for the US tanks to finally arrive.

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Post #: 138

RE: T64 - surfing down to Bayonne - 2/24/2020 9:31:22 PM

John B.

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Your interesting AAR continues. Two questions I've had about this game is that, in reading various AARs, I've been struck by the lack of any type of German Bulge offensive. Does the game increase the replacement rate for the German army to account for the release of manpower from the replacement army after the coup plotters were ousted in July and August 44? Also, is there any imposition of a broad front on the allies? Or any cost for ignoring a broad front strategy?

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Post #: 139

RE: T64 - surfing down to Bayonne - 2/24/2020 10:27:16 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Your interesting AAR continues. Two questions I've had about this game is that, in reading various AARs, I've been struck by the lack of any type of German Bulge offensive. Does the game increase the replacement rate for the German army to account for the release of manpower from the replacement army after the coup plotters were ousted in July and August 44? Also, is there any imposition of a broad front on the allies? Or any cost for ignoring a broad front strategy?

There is no hard-wired reason to do a Bulge but a couple of advantages. First it can cause losses (=vp) especially if you hit a sector held by brigades (I don't want to give GR ideas

), Second all those juioy SS Pzr divisions go off to fight in Hungary (if you have the EF box off) or may well be needed in the east in any case - to delay a Soviet conquest of Berlin.

The broadfront strategy is again a choice. The game doesn't model the internal tensions that meant that neither the US nor the UK would accept the consequences of proper prioritisation.

The trade-offs are in favour of broad front:

i) it stretches the Germans - and they struggle with that as by now their regular infantry are pretty weak (& going to get worse once we move over into 1945);
ii) it makes use of the ability to difuse supply - too much armour on a narrow sector simply consumes all the supply to little effect
iii) you can get lucky, a sudden focus of airdrops can suddenly generate highly mobile formations that can break a weakly held line

Against:

i) You can only afford the equivalent of 2 corps at level #4 supply - ie the mobile stuff will have MP > 40, this is hard to solve as its not just a case of depots and rail-heads, its a lack of trains (rail capacity). Its why Antwerp is so important, thats a huge port and together with Brussels, its a lot of trains as well.
ii) if you have this mobility, a breakthrough can become a deep salient or a pocket
iii) in the end (I think) the route to the Reich is over the Rhineland - everything else takes you off in a tangent

I think its good that neither is forced on the player - the logic is there but you need to fit that into the decision making for any particular game.

There's a few constraints that I think are missing. That you can attach FF units to British corps is a bit hard to justify, De Gaulle was prepared to accept them being brigaded with the US. South African units should only be in the Med (and the NZ formation). The South African govt refused to let the British deploy them outside that theatre, the New Zealanders were just cautious given their memories of British control from WW1.

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Post #: 140

T65 - Capturing the 'Mort Subite' stocks - 2/25/2020 5:02:36 AM

loki100

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T65 � 23 September 1944

Rain across N Europe and light mud in some sectors.

Well given last turn's losses, VP situation not too bad

Air power badly reduced due to low morale so concentrated on a few choice targets.

In Belgium, Ostend fell (level 3 port so will take a while to repair) and 1 US/2 Br attacked towards Brussels.

Attempt to gain 3 hexes on the city failed in two major tank battles.

So some substantial gains but I really need to rest my armoured formations.

To the south 3 Army trying to force the Moselle around Nancy. Further south 9 Army continues to exchange hexes with the German motorised brigades.

Small breakout by 1 FF

More gains in Italy. Bologna is liberated, gain a bridgehead over the Reno and surround Ravenna.

Not exactly suceeding in bringing my losses under control.

Not much on the destroyed list � guess its useful to have removed the 'Meyer' formation � I suspect that was lost in the fighting around Brussels.

Random image is a well hidden British tank in Belgium:

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Post #: 141

RE: T65 - Capturing the 'Mort Subite' stocks - 2/25/2020 7:47:56 PM

John B.

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Was there a tank in your last random image? It was so well hidden I could not see it. :)

Thanks for your response to my questions. I guess the other one that I had was whether the Germans see any sort of uptick in their replacement rate that would allow them to build up divisions for a Wacht like lunge.

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Post #: 142

RE: T65 - Capturing the 'Mort Subite' stocks - 2/25/2020 8:10:42 PM

Joel Billings

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They do get an uptick in replacements and a bunch of reinforcement units in late summer 1944 (VGD, tank brigades). Up to the players to figure out how best to use them. From the manual:

Whenever Paris is allied controlled, Free French manpower production is doubled (including liberated French population centres that produce manpower for the Free French). In addition German manpower production is multiplied by 1.5 from the time Paris is allied controlled until the end of 1944.

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Post #: 143

T66 - Adding Italian wine to the collection - 2/25/2020 8:48:25 PM

loki100

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T66 � 30 September 1944

Most of NW Europe now rain and light mud. According to the forecast due to stay much the same next week.

Despite last weeks losses, VP chart makes better reading, pity that some v-weapon sites seem to have repaired.

German air offensive against my railyards in France (good choice) and back to naval interdiction off S France.

Useful targets but heavy losses for the attackers (especially as their bombers were unescorted and I had a lot of FC on auto-intercept protecting Paris), including quite a high pilot:plane ratio.

Strategic missions now almost all about v-weapons and tank production. 8 AAF hits the Baltic again (I'm just repeating this as there are good secondary targets in the region) and Hannover. BC reports German fighters on its usual Kassel-Magdeburg sweep.

15 AAF reported fairly heavy fighter concentrations.

Bordeaux taken, which will help with the wine supplies. Usual hex flipping around Lyons by elements of 9 Army. Helped now as I am starting to connect with the partisan revolts giving me large corridors of hexes.

3 Army using the Moselle as a defensive line as it re-organises, Verdun surrounded but will go over to the defensive till the supply situation improves.

1 FF expands to the east as the Germans pull back and moves into position around Toulon.

In Belgium, Bruges, Ghent and the collection of cities around Lille are all liberated.

Around Brussels, 1 US/2 Br seeks to make small gains with a view to an attack in the next few weeks.

However, they run into a nasty reserve reaction.

I lack the capacity to really stretch the defense so after a bit of thinking decide its best to pull back and refit. More infantry are arriving which will ease the demands for my armour to hold the line. In turn that will make multiple attacks more feasible and basically (yet again) wear out the Pzrs.

In Italy, Ravenna taken, supported by naval gunfire. First attempt to break out from Bologna fails.

Rotate the attacking forces and second attempt clears the Reno giving me a decent bridgehead and a threat to all the cities in Emilia-Romagna.

Despite a couple of defeats, ground losses not too bad that turn.

Supply situation is easing a little. Mainly by reducing demand so that units don't send too many of their trucks away. US 3A is in the worst state but that will improve as I gain a few trains. Good that the main offensive force (21 Br AG) is gaining what it needs.

Which might make more sense set against the OOB table. Note I have a lot of damaged tanks, which was one reason why I didn't keep on pushing around Brussels.

And a rough overview of the entire front. I'm not sure what to do with 1 CA. Most likely redeploy by sea to the NE but if there is a strong German force in Marseilles I may link it up with 1 FF.

Digging around with the supply information. The '8' key can be useful, even when all it tells you is that 3A and 9A have major problems given the length of their road supply � and that is before German units keep on cutting up the network.

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Post #: 144

T67 - Time for a nice Dubbel? - 2/26/2020 6:55:06 AM

loki100

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T67 � 7 October 1944

Mostly rain and light mud but annoyingly the Po valley is heavy rain and light mud, so I lose my airpower on that sector.

Looks like it will be much the same next week.

For the first time in a while the VP chart goes positive, mainly as I've clearly suppressed the v-weapons again.

Luftwaffe carries on raiding my depots in France.

Not able to bomb into S Germany so most of 15 AAF sent over Toulon, in the north main commitment was to bomb a road open into Luxemburg.

Strategic bombing is a VP hunt � manpower and HI in the Ruhr, Fuel and HI around Hamburg and Berlin.

Ground war in S France as complex as ever but Toulon was shelled and bombed into a quick surrender.

Beyond that between my armoured cavalry formations and the partisans, most of the south should flip to my control next turn.

In Belgium offensive starts with 2 British launching overwhelming attacks to clear out the German front line (trying to ensure that there is no reserve reaction), followed by exploitation to pin possible German reserves.

1 US then launches the single largest attack of the war and clears Brussels � with surprisingly limited losses.

Reinforcements starting to arrive (no need to leave the 1 CA formations in the south) and 3 Army starts an offensive into Luxembourg, protected by substantial interdiction.

That puts 10 US Armoured 20 miles from the German border,

In Italy, exploit the freedom of having finally broken out around Bologna. Ferrara is added to the list of liberated cities and the start of a hint of a possible pocket � in any case the Germans need to abandon their defensive lines.

The Po is a major barrier but I have plenty of targets to the south and can effectively pick my chosen crossing point � when I'm ready.

My losses are up compared to last turn but have two major cities for my efforts.

But am starting to face a few problems with manpower, all the smaller Allied factions cannot really replace their losses and the British are reaching the end of their active reserves.

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Post #: 145

RE: T67 - Time for a nice Dubbel? - 2/26/2020 5:17:39 PM

John B.

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Loki & Joel,

Thanks for the answers! I'll return to my silent lurking now as I enjoy this AAR a great deal.

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Post #: 146

T68 - Milan for Christmas? - 2/27/2020 7:19:59 AM

loki100

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T68 � 14 October 1944

Well it may take a little while to reach Germany after all

Despite that, another +2 on the victory charts.

Weather is a problem, in the north its now heavy rain but only light mud. So in theory one more turn of operations but without air cover. In practice, I need to let stuff rest and refit. So apart from some limited attacks by 3 Army to get a better starting position when the rain ends, no action in Belgium.

Better news is that Italy and S France is back to clear weather.

So decide to use my airpower mostly in Italy to see if I can exploit my current opportunities but some of 15 AAF attacks tank production near Prag. This was not a good idea as it was at range and under-escorted � a rare win for the Luftwaffe � especially as I missed my actual target.

Really should have used them for tactical bombing.

On which subject was wondering where this lot might be lurking:

S France, still taking control of the Rhone valley, assault formations moving up to attack Marseilles next turn.

Only really active sector was Italy. A couple of unwelcome holds due to 116 Pzr (this despite it being heavily bombed) but made some useful gains, still the possibility of a small pocket. To help this, stripped my defences in the centre and managed a small breakthrough.

Losses a bit inflated by the German counter-attack on 3 Army and some shipping losses (since UK Coastal Air is grounded).

So in view of their first encounter, here's the inevitable random image:

Hadn't noticed, but they have clearly been around for a while � I've shot down 4 of them (or they could have been operational losses), 2 this turn and 2 last.

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Post #: 147

T69 - almost all the wine stocks under control - 2/28/2020 7:02:53 AM

loki100

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T69 � 21 October 1944

VP up to +4 (its rather good when I am forced to stop attacking), weather mostly rain/light mud and forecast is for much the same next turn. So might as well see what I can gain before the really heavy rain turns up.

Both BC and 8 AAF attack Berlin/Stettin and 8AAF flies higher than I have done recently (you can't push BC much over 22,000'). Lets see how well the Me-262s cope with lots of allied fighters and out of their comfort zones.

Tactical air in Italy and France is mostly hitting chosen targets (including the defenders of Marseilles). In Belgium, after a couple of turns of resting have almost all my tactical air power. So heavy interdiction in preparation for a renewal of 3 Army's offensive and to see if I can force the Albert Canal. Where identified, suitable targets get directly bombed.

The assault on Berlin was effective in terms of direct results and, partly, in triggering A2A combat.

Some interesting differences there, I suspect the 8 AAF raids were too high for whatever German fighters were in the region (I don't believe they otherwise would only target BC) but at the level of reported results, BC was clearly the more effective.

My new playmates clearly didn't want to take any chances.

After being bombed into the ground by 15 AAF, the defenders of Marseilles were quickly overwhelmed.

So the overall situation in S France, still an odd war going on between US armoured cavalry formations and German security regiments.

Not shown but repairing a rail line from Bordeaux to Dijon (probably take another 3 turns) which will ease supply to 9 Army and now the main combat formations of 1FF are freed up, it'll be a quick job to secure the Rhone valley.

In turn that will be 3 major ports (and decent rail capacity) pushing supply to the drive into S Germany.

Italy, unit bombing failed to find 116 Pzr so my hope is its pulled back to refit. Compensation is substantial interdiction over the location of their possible tactical reserves.

8 Army drives towards Parma and effectively cuts off Modena (still not sure how much of a pocket I'll actually manage). 5 Army deploys to see if it can cross the Po � might need a substantial investment in AP for motorisation to concentrate against a particular weak spot.

German units south of the Po are often routing on defeat, suggesting low TOE or supply problems.

3 Army starts its offensive by taking Luxembourg city and exploiting along the Moselle � reaching the German border, but an attempt to take Ettelbruck failed stopping any hopes of a pocket (I only had one >45 MP armoured formation on that sector).

9 Army slowly building up with fresh and refitted formations and, at the very least, 3A is pinning substantial German forces but I suspect that 9 and 11 Pzr are fresh enough to do some damage to my spearhead.

1 US attempt to reach/cross the Albert Canal was frustrated by some FJ formations that just held off the first attack � resulting MP penalty left me relying on a hasty attack (as I was keeping my last very mobile unit back for exploitation).

Spent an age thinking about committing 2 British but the problem was not firepower but MP. In the end they struck east towards the Maas and managed to cut the Liege-Namur link.

I Canadian filling in on the northern flank and relieving command load on 1 US.

Suspect this spearhead is less vulnerable than 3A as recon suggests they are mostly facing infantry.

Overall losses were relatively light but still running down my tank stocks.

And finally, a US M-18 on a suspiciously sunny day:

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Post #: 148

T70 - Trying to secure the La Chouffe stocks - 2/28/2020 9:25:06 PM

loki100

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T70 � 28 October 1944

VP at +3 (& no v-weapon losses), weather looks like mud/heavy rains for next week, so best to use my strategic bombers to ensure the v-weapons stay out of use for 3 or so turns.

All of S France now under my control apart from the remaining dispute with the German security units along the Rhone valley.

Main difference to last turn was a lot of German fighters trying to interfere with my bombers.

Bomber Command hit targets in S Germany despite all this unwelcome attention.

8 US repeated last turn's raids, this time attracting more attention over Berlin but not on the Baltic.

Only managed to destroy 2 of the Me-262s despite all that effort.

S France, Avignon and St Ettiene taken

Italy, 5 Army forces the Po at 2 points, 8 Army takes Reggio Emilia, still can't close the pocket to the south, I suspect there is some supply in Modena but they are now reduced to a narrow corridor so resupply must be increasingly difficult.

On the main sector, trying to refit and rest but equally looked for some final gains to give better starting points for the next offensive.

1 CA cleared German units back from Brussels (so that becomes a depot) and reached the Scheldt.

Elements of 1 US and 2 Br pushed NE towards the Albert Canal � this will ease the process of taking Antwerp and starts to explore crossing points for the Maas.

To the south 3A consolidated its hold on the Luxemburg-German border. It now has a few depots and a couple of rail links so the hope is to push the MP of its armour up.

I'm prepared to make a major effort around Bitberg as it avoids the need to fight my way over the Maas. Since it looks like there are 4 Pzr divisions on that sector this seems to be a mutually shared understanding.

Ground losses not too bad.

Not exactly the clearest map but may give some overview of my rail and depot net. Basically the western ports are functioning and using their rail cap to bring supply up to around Paris. To the east, I have the start of a good rail net but still a bit low on rail capacity.

As examples the rail line to Mons is using 5000 tons of freight but that along the coast is under 4000. Behind 3 Army, Reims is getting 5000 tons by rail but the other depots much less.

To the south, there is a rail line moving across the centre from Bordeaux and another from Paris to Dijon but 9 Army is still very reliant on Orleans. Issue here is lack of rail capacity as much as non-repaired lines.

My guess is it will take 3-4 turns to clear the Rhone valley, at that stage supply will start to arrive on the 9 Army sector (as will the bulk of 1FF).

OOB, note I still have a lot of damaged tanks, allowing them to repair will help a lot in the next phase.

I have 3 US armoured divisions pulled back to Paris for a major refit after they were badly beaten up in German counter-attacks.

For the moment, I am getting 1 Armoured division every other turn so this is manageable � in the end I will hit the problem of not enough competent generals to make the best use of all my armour,

I'm still keeping some airborne units prepared for possible drops, it will be a matter of luck if I have picked the right spot but for the moment its useful. Most are now actually just fighting as regular infantry and the airborne corps are all configured with artillery etc.

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Post #: 149

T71 - Occupying (a very small part of) Germany - 2/29/2020 6:37:04 AM

loki100

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T71 � 4 November 1944

First thing is the weather was far better than I expected � rain and light mud over the key sectors.

Overall I have been very lucky with the weather � no doubt this will balance out at some inconvenient stage. Looks like normal combat operations will be feasible in Italy next turn.

VP score up to +6:

Bulk of the strategic air war is a repeat of last turn, traded A2A losses at more or less 1-1, including one more Me-262.

In Italy, managed to take Mantova, but more importantly, sealed the Modena pocket. That should yield the equivalent of 7 divisions.

If I can expand from Mantova to the foot of Lake Garda that cuts the rail supply to everthing to the west, including the units still in S France.

S France, Valence falls, Lyons next turn. Mountain brigades carry on oozing over the Alps.

3 Army enters Germany � I'll take that 2-1 as compensation for all my recent 1.9-1 holds.

This time I have an armoured reserve with almost 50 MP.

That bit of good luck was quickly balanced out. 2 British tried to get around what looks like strong German forces on the Maas by cutting off Namur.

A series of holds stripped out my MP and added to the costs of moving forward � Namur is cut off but not properly encircled and I suspect the narrow gap will get filled in next turn.

1 Canadian cleared the west bank of the Scheldt.