A simple question about logistics from a newbie

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A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/6/2020 3:00:37 PM

streetsahead1985

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Joined: 1/2/2020
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I feel like I'm slowing getting a handle on this massive game and I'm loving every minute of it. Though, one thing that I can't seem to find an answer for (I might've over looked it in the manual) is in regards to supply penalties. At which point (number of hexes) do units suffer some sort of penalty from being away from a depot? For example, in WitE, I'm so used to keeping my HQ units within 5 hexes of a railhead and the logistics system in WitW is massively different. I try to keep supply depots that are closer to the action at a higher priority and I either destroy or set depots further away at 1, but occasionally I'll notice that I've got some tank units 20+ hexes away from their supply source, and they're still receiving supply, so I'm just curious how this aspect works. Is penalty related to the supply/truck loss that occurs over a distance?

Thanks for all of the help everyone. This is a great community.

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/6/2020 3:31:55 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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its a bit less binary than in WiTE1.

so yes, HQs within 5 hexes of the unit as that secures the command variables, also a good commander in the relevant army will help, so there is a bit of using your leaders to maximise passing the supply checks.

The '8' key is a great help to understand what goes on as it'll show where your HQs get their supply from (and thus their units) and also how your depots interact.

Trucks are key but can catch you out.

One of the biggest hits on CV in WiTW is having to use your trucks to go and get supply. [as an aside this is why you bomb the railyards in Italy - it makes the Germans use their trucks]. So if you set a HQ to priority #4 its formations will put a lot of effort into finding that level of supply - oddly they may be less effective (though very well fed) as a result. So if you are at a distance to your depots, drop the priority down to 1 or 2. You will inevitably have sectors where this is the case.

As the allies, make use of air resupply, always drop at an airfield, this can really help replenish key formations.

Depot priority is a bit easier, as you say layer them from 0 - 4 (key sector) 3 otherwise. You need intermediate ones (not least that is probably where your airforce is deployed) not least as these may well be where your units are drawing their supply from.

Just because you have a depot doesn't mean it works well. Any railyard damage reduces the depot capacity, so use priority repair to make sure your railyards function. You will often see (the 8 key) that the bulk of your units are drawing supply from the batch of depots behind your most advanced ones - the advanced ones are probably not fully repaired.

So supply penalties are loss of MP/CV if you lack unit trucks. MP/CV for infantry lacking supply and ammo for armour if its fuel. Section 15.6.2 of the manual will give the more detailed rules in these regards.

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/6/2020 3:49:51 PM

streetsahead1985

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Great information, thanks so much. Really interesting to hear that your use of available trucks affects CV and MP. There are so many minute details in this game it's staggering, but it's exactly what I want out of a game like this.

So if i'm using a motorized corps to push a significant distance it's a good idea to set the corps supply priority lower then air drop supplies after taking an airbase to maximize CV then?

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/6/2020 4:55:43 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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basically yes, that would work.

I think a lot of players get obsessed with priority #4 HQ supply and forget the cost of gettng there. Any missing supply/fuel hits your cv/mp, but to fill out small gaps can cost you even more as all your trucks go into the supply system.

Equally once your supply network is overloaded with freight, it squeezes out manpower/equipment replacements, so again you can end up worse off than if you operated with lower supply demand.

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/7/2020 4:04:58 PM

HermanGraf

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Joined: 6/17/2009
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Another simple question for a newbie.

How do i know how well my interdiction is working? Do i look at the disruption screen after a battle to see what the "AIR" column displays? If i took a look at the logistics screen and checked "loss by phase", do i look at high losses for attrition and retreat? I am not quite sure. As a German player interdicting on their naval routes in Sicily, i cant see what im really doing. Am i taking out cargo ships, transport ships, or hurting their task forces? I try to directly attack task forces but nothing seems to happen.

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/7/2020 5:39:51 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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I think this is something that a bit of solitaire play (take both sides) really helps with. As an eg, use the breakout scenario, set up a very high zone of interdiction, then simply move a Pzr division into it and out again.

Now as that involves no combat (the interdiction attack happened in the allied air phase), the losses are very hard to see for the allied player but you can see the damage to the Pzr division (destroyed, damaged and disrupted). It sort of reassures you that it all works.

On the other hand if you attack a unit in a hex with interdiction and make it retreat, you will see those losses (& the planes - which can be odd if you added no GS) rolled into the combat report.

naval interdiction is a bit harder to track but there are two possible outcomes.

Almost any interdiction will increase their shipping losses and start to degrade the Task Forces. If you can match or exceed the allied interdiction score then you close off that hex as a supply route - no allied player wants an unsupplied landing as their disrupted elements won't recover (plus other nasty things). Off Sicily you'll struggle to get this but its feasible if/when the Allies land around Rome or if they make a quick lunge for the Italian mainland.

I look at ships and trucks as metrics (trucks esp for the axis) as they reflect the sort of secondary effects of interdiction.

If you are the Axis all this is about getting slight advantages, the Allies build around 1400 trucks a turn. But they are more vulnerable for cargo ships, I think they get 10-15 a turn and probably need about 900 to properly supply their Italian campaign. They start with around 1200. If I recall, they get a large boost in 1944 so this is about stressing their systems in 1943.

For the axis, they build about 600 per turn. So here the Allied analysis is a bit easier. How much production have you bombed out + per turn losses (mostly attrition) if that is >600 then they are on the slide. Again keeping to very rough numbers, they start with a surplus of around 3000 over need (depends again on how Italy is playing out - but this safety net gets eroded if they have to redeploy and you are bombing rail yards.

So in the current PBEM, here's my rough guess. I've knocked out around 2000 trucks (end T3), I probably have damaged around 5% of production (this being very hard to estimate till you have individual factories bombed to over 50), so my opponent is down about 250 trucks.

At this stage ... so what.

The reward comes in the second phase of 1944. By that time I will have had a horrible time fighting the full strength Pzr divisions once - reserve reactions, virtually unmoveable defences etc. Now those Pzrs need to replenish their trucks and medium tanks ... and come up short so lower cv and mp.

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/7/2020 9:53:22 PM

HermanGraf

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Ah, even harder to determine than it looks! Perfect! lol..

And I really do apologize for the questions, I have looked through the manuals and the questions I present are due to not seeing them in the rules, or maybe I missed them..

Setting up air interception? Does that just require basing your F or FB-F units where you think the enemy will conduct air ops? Or do you actively have to set your AD to AS missions where you think the enemy will be?

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RE: A simple question about logistics from a newbie - 1/7/2020 10:20:34 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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both work and both have problems.

First, auto-intercept is the only way to use your NF. So especially for the German player its all about deployment and making sure they report to as good a commander as possible. The only time NF can use an AS is the 'night intruder' mission.

Beyond that.

Auto-intercept. Pro - they only fly if needed (so no attrition/ops losses), its pretty efficient

AS Pro- you can pick things like altitude (v useful for the allies as in general in 1943 you have fighters that like being over 21,000' and the German fighters don't), you can pick the turn phase (eg only do in your opponents turn), its the only way to get fighters out to the edge of their range.

Also the AS is better at setting boundaries - a lot of German players remove fuel tanks to try and keep their defensive fighters together.

As the allies, I'll use auto-intercept if things are quiet, I usually leave a few squadrons set well back and unassigned (can catch sneaky raids or inquisitive recon planes) but I mainly go for AS or close escort (in general AS is better if you want to fight).

For the Germans I remain completely unsure. As above there are advantages to defending using AS but equally only flying to need saves you a lot of fatigue and operational losses.

Keep asking questions, its a complex game and a lot of advice comes from play experience, the rule book will give you the concepts but how it fits together is a bit more trial and error

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