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- 7/16/2003 4:50:13 AM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
[B]Not Leo ... but I guess that the infatry is "tougher" because is harder to spot than in previous versions.

As SEARCHING is seted at 60% in the preferences screen, every unit is harder to spot ... but smaller units are even harder. So untis like infantry and ATG, which have a size of 1 may be really dificult to spot. So infantry have more chances to ambrush tanks ... or slowly advance and then assault enemy tanks ...

Tanks are also worst for spotting ... so you will need infantry and recon units to spot entrenched or in-cover enemy units.

I think tath this is what makes infantry tougher in SPh2H.fr [/B][/QUOTE]

hmm well i hope this doesn't make small AT guns any harder to spot. Right now, even with infantry present, its all too easy for size 0 and size 1 AT guns, even those not entrenched to become hidden again despite nearly constant firing.

(in reply to mlomax)

Post #: 31

Avery Note - 7/16/2003 5:11:30 AM

chief

Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline

Had I pre-read the blurb put out by PZ Leo on page 1 bottom of page "Note, that the preset preferences setting of "SEARCHING" is now at 60%". My bad :o I should read carefully instead of scan reading and jumping in with both (feet) eyes shut. Thanks for reply guy, sorry again.

Chief (senior moment operator):( ;) :cool:

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Post #: 32

- 7/16/2003 6:21:49 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline

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Post #: 33

- 7/16/2003 3:27:22 PM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Infantry is tougher because of two reasons:

- 60% searching helps infantry and small guns more then it does vehicles. Spotting infantry (or small guns) is something one should take more care of then it used to be...otherwise you'll stumble around without knowing what's going on.

- The increased Morale values (+15), lessens a bit the suppression, that mainly infantry suffers from (but not dramatically) and also increases the ambush chance a bit.
Example: a Panzerfaust team had an average assault chance of 40-45% success in disabling or destroying a vehicle. It Now should be somewhere at 50-55%.
The same applies to all assault chances.

What I wanted to achieve with these changes:

More realism :D

The reduced searching is supposed to have one specific effect, namely to slow the battles down.
Speed of vehicles has always been an issue, but I didn't like the approach to reduce them, as they're pretty realistic right now (vehicles simply can travel these distances, if they want to).
But if spotting becomes a major issue, one rarely can afford to just speed through enemy lines...move cautious, keep eyes open, then you will see the enemy.

Also it should encourage to use direct fire on a hex, rather then on a seen target. Normal combat often consist of just throwing some rounds into the vecinity of a suspected enemy...usually the less trained the troops, the less they actually aim at a real target, but rather fire into the direction of landmarks, obstacles a.s.o.

So use this feature...you may not see an AT-gun, but you saw the hex it fired from...pump a few HE rounds in it and suppress the gun...it also becomes easier to spot then...

so if US scouts don't spot an AT-gun position at 200m, I would think they are moving pretty fast (maybe even on a vehicle)...if they speeded up from somewhere and just jumped of a Halftrack, I think it feels right they don't see it immediately :)

A second effect of the higher morale is, that infantry does stay in the trenches...you will see elite units go down to 3 or maybe even 2/1 men (if they do not disperse), without throwing smoke and fleeing in panic over an open field just to get mowed down...(ofcourse some still do, but it's much less frequent now).

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Mir nach, ich folge euch !

(in reply to mlomax)

Post #: 34

- 7/16/2003 6:24:22 PM

sztartur2

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline

Highly Agreed.

Artur.

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Post #: 35

- 7/17/2003 4:21:20 AM

AbsntMndedProf

Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline

The new sounds for various units and weapons are outstanding! Thanks very much!

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 36

- 7/17/2003 5:54:45 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
[B]The new sounds for various units and weapons are outstanding! Thanks very much!

Eric Maietta [/B][/QUOTE]

Excellent sounds so far.

I hit a tank and didn't hurt it but the sound was so cool I wanted to do it again.:)

As for spotting: I was sitting right next to a Jap triple 20mm AAA gun and knocked it down to one man. The next turn, it disappeared on me, so I drove away. The turn after that it was up and shooting at me again.:mad: I can't kill it for anything. That kind of disappearing act, I can do without.

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Post #: 37

- 7/17/2003 10:36:37 PM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nikademus
[B]hmm well i hope this doesn't make small AT guns any harder to spot. Right now, even with infantry present, its all too easy for size 0 and size 1 AT guns, even those not entrenched to become hidden again despite nearly constant firing. [/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alby
[B]
Im playing an email game now
and my us recon forces are being fired at by soviet AT guns from less then 4 hexes and I aint spotted em yet!! heheheh [/B][/QUOTE]

I have been doing some test with H2H fr.

I played some hot-seat games against myself with Soviets vs Germans in 1943. The test consisted in placing some ATG and Infantry (size 1); and some MMG (size 0) on certain places and solowly advancing recon/scouts units in order to see how much close the scouts have to get to spot the ATG/Infantry/MMG.

I disabelede the weapons of the ATG/Infantry/MMG units in order that the scouts could advance without beign fired upon.
During the ATG/Infantry/MMG turn I checked if they have discovered the advancing scouts or not

Here is what I get:

German infantry scout units need to get 4 or 3 hexes close to a Soviet ATG in order to spot is.
If GE Scout is moving not faster than 1 or 2 hexes per turn it can spot the Soviet unit before being spoted himself.

Soviet infantry scout units have to get a little closer to spot German ATG/infantry: may be 3 or 2 hexes (some experienced -75 poits- SO infantry and scouts can spot GE ATG at 3 or 4 hexes even after have moved).
GE ATG/Infantry may spot aproaching SO Recon Infantry at 4 or 5 hexes even if they move no faster than 2 hexes per turn.

MMG were really, really, really dificult to spot for both sides.

Is important to note that Germas are more experienced than Soviets in 1943, this is likely the reason why GE Recon performs better.

Both recon units and ATG/Inf/MMG were not supressed ... if they where supresed the result of the test may change (of course).

Wheather condition was clear and visibility was 35. It was noon.
Bad wheather condition, night or bad bisibility will obviously make ATG more dificult to spot.

If ATG/Infantry shoots more than 2 or 3 times during it's turn or using OP fire during enemy turn, they can be easily spoted at long distance (8 or 10 hexes).

If a tank moves slowly and then remains stationary by a couple of turns, it becomes invisible even for units that had spoted it.

I didn't test US. Sorry :)

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Post #: 38

- 7/18/2003 12:46:31 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

scenario/map designers might be interested to know, in SHP folder there�s a PDF file to be found that explains how to use the new terrain icons included with the H2H fr release!;)

"H2H Probing the stalin line" uses some of the new stuff.

have fun

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Post #: 39

- 7/23/2003 3:04:13 AM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

Hmm

It seems to crasch whenever I trip a mine. :confused:

Does anyone have an idea why or tips on remedy? :p

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Got StuG?

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Post #: 40

H2H probing the stalin line - 7/23/2003 5:31:26 AM

pbhawkin1

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline

I have played a few turns of this.
I have run over mines with both Inf and armour and not had a crash! So working fine for me.
Like the trenches and the new sounds a lot.
Would still like the "willy meter" back though!! (Soldiers sixth sense and all that).
otherwise it's looking good

pbhawkin

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