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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

 
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/2/2020 11:47:03 PM   
springel


Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline 		Today I heard the medical defence planning in the Netherlands is for now trying to contain the infection with quarantines, but be ready to fall back when the virus escapes containment and keeps spreading.

In that case the defence will be built around the vulnerable, i.e. they stay in protected institutions, while the large more resistant part of the population just absorbs this infection. Then a vaccine must free the 'protected' later.



< Message edited by springel -- 3/2/2020 11:49:11 PM >

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 151
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 12:16:35 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Ah yes, lock the vulnerable people up. The problem is, unless there is no contact with the outside, how will you keep any contagion out . . .

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(in reply to springel)
Post #: 152
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 12:46:55 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

You really don't understand. It seems you would rather just ignore it until it's like Wuhan where the healthcare system folds under the masses of people. That's what the rest of the world is trying to prevent. It can't be business as usual. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Everything is fine and then it's like a bomb going off because it's contagious very early on yet symptoms don't appear for a week or more. Suddenly people are dying and hospitals become swamped because it goes undetected for so long. Yeah, that's scary to me because I'm not stupid. I've survived a lot of **** storms because I never take anything for granted.

I have an idea, you and your business buddies offer free meals a few times a week and tout how no one will get sick. If you're right then you'll get lots of customers and people will become less afraid. If you're wrong you'll probably end up in court. Roll the dice.


I don't think that people are ignoring it. But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.

Just because something may be more contagious than influenza does not mean that we have to panic and shut down the entire world. It means to take reasonable care not to increase you risk while still getting on with your life. You have to do what you have to do. If you want to hide in a basement, go right ahead but be aware that not everybody feels that they have to.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 153
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 11:37:50 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.
I'll put that on the wall of my bunker.


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Post #: 154
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 11:57:44 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.
I'll put that on the wall of my bunker.



I recall a cartoon about the Y2K bug. A couple were in their bunker with a lot of canned goods, with a lantern, and an electric can opener . . .

_____________________________

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Post #: 155
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 2:37:19 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		https://quillette.com/2020/03/03/dealing-with-a-once-in-a-century-pathogen/

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 156
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 3:11:10 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks z1812 - I agree history has to be our guide here.

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Post #: 157
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 3:43:11 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

https://quillette.com/2020/03/03/dealing-with-a-once-in-a-century-pathogen/


A nice article, thank you.

_____________________________

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 158
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 4:34:59 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		I really don't expect anyone to have the political balls to do what needs to be done. It is an election year here. So things will get much worse re a virus. The present administration is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

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Post #: 159
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 5:33:12 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Let us NOT discuss that topic here.

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Post #: 160
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/3/2020 6:21:33 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings to All,
NY state now has two confirmed cases of the Corona Virus:
https://www.wamc.org/post/ny-confirms-first-positive-test-coronavirus
https://www.wamc.org/post/second-new-yorker-has-covid-19

I teach online astronomy at a small college in Albany, NY and just received the college's pandemic plan in case of Corona Virus outbreak on campus.
Currently, there are students in Italy & South Korea in Study Abroad programs who are now returning home and will undergo isolation and testing.
We are on Spring break this week with students gone home. Will see what happens when they return.

Foxnews update on NY state Corona Virus:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/new-york-coronavirus-patients-wife-children-neighbor-test-positive

< Message edited by rommel222 -- 3/4/2020 2:51:06 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 161
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 12:30:52 AM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings to All,
NY state now has 11 confirmed casea of Corona Virus.
https://www.wamc.org/post/cuomo-11-new-yorkers-test-positive-new-coronavirus

My son-in-law is a private contractor for carpentry and plumbing in Saratoga NY.
One of his employees went to Italy on vacation two weeks ago with wife. She became ill there and did not get tested for Corona virus.
They both returned home to Saratoga NY and still did not get tested because they did not want to pay for it.
The employee wants to come back to work but my son-in-law says no way. Told the employee that he and his wife must be tested for Corona Virus first.
In NY state Gov. Andy Cuomo has ordered health insurance companies to waive the fee for Corona Virus testing. So employee and sick wife will not have an out of pocket expense for testing.
But in the meantime he and his wife have been shopping at stores and socializing with friends and relatives.





< Message edited by rommel222 -- 3/5/2020 12:34:07 AM >

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 162
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 1:11:09 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		The Problem With Telling Sick Workers to Stay Home

Even with the coronavirus spreading, lax labor laws and little sick leave mean that many people can’t afford to skip work.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/coronavirus-could-hit-american-workers-especially-hard/607213/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 163
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 2:04:01 AM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings to All,
NY state now has 11 confirmed casea of Corona Virus.
https://www.wamc.org/post/cuomo-11-new-yorkers-test-positive-new-coronavirus

My son-in-law is a private contractor for carpentry and plumbing in Saratoga NY.
One of his employees went to Italy on vacation two weeks ago with wife. She became ill there and did not get tested for Corona virus.
They both returned home to Saratoga NY and still did not get tested because they did not want to pay for it.
The employee wants to come back to work but my son-in-law says no way. Told the employee that he and his wife must be tested for Corona Virus first.
In NY state Gov. Andy Cuomo has ordered health insurance companies to waive the fee for Corona Virus testing. So employee and sick wife will not have an out of pocket expense for testing.
But in the meantime he and his wife have been shopping at stores and socializing with friends and relatives.



Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are, at best foolish, and at worst irresponsible, when it comes to being thoughtful about their part in controlling these type of contagions.

Sadly, authorities often wait until affairs are in crisis before making difficult decisions that may be unpopular.

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 164
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 2:35:03 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings to All,
NY state now has 11 confirmed casea of Corona Virus.
https://www.wamc.org/post/cuomo-11-new-yorkers-test-positive-new-coronavirus

My son-in-law is a private contractor for carpentry and plumbing in Saratoga NY.
One of his employees went to Italy on vacation two weeks ago with wife. She became ill there and did not get tested for Corona virus.
They both returned home to Saratoga NY and still did not get tested because they did not want to pay for it.
The employee wants to come back to work but my son-in-law says no way. Told the employee that he and his wife must be tested for Corona Virus first.
In NY state Gov. Andy Cuomo has ordered health insurance companies to waive the fee for Corona Virus testing. So employee and sick wife will not have an out of pocket expense for testing.
But in the meantime he and his wife have been shopping at stores and socializing with friends and relatives.



Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are, at best foolish, and at worst irresponsible, when it comes to being thoughtful about their part in controlling these type of contagions.

Sadly, authorities often wait until affairs are in crisis before making difficult decisions that may be unpopular.



True, when people are sick they should be selfish and not share.

Some authorities want crisis situations so they can do things that ordinarily would not be possible for them.

My question is, how can governor Cuomo order private industries to waive a cost? Is he having the state pay for the testing?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 165
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 2:50:37 AM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings z1812,
How right you are!

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 166
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 3:09:18 AM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		RangerJoe you must not live in NY state or else you would know that an all NY democratic house (AOC & Gerry Nadler) & senate (Kirstan Gillibrand & Chuck Schumer) allow Emperor Cuomo to issue executive orders. The capital of NY state is Albany NY, which is also a sanctuary city and the reason i moved to Saratoga which is not. NY state used to always be the number 1 highest income taxed state in the union. However, it has fallen to number 2 after California since last year.

There are safety nets for workers that are sidelined by illness in NY state (another reason income taxes are so high = tax payer funded).
https://www.fisherphillips.com/resources-alerts-comprehensive-faqs-for-employers-on-the-covid
http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/TheBoard/indemnity-fact-sheet.pdf
https://www.workcompcentral.com/news/article/id/b13809c5d9325d719c24e4c2d603c5d60a2b2008



< Message edited by rommel222 -- 3/5/2020 11:53:27 AM >

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 167
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 9:16:39 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

RangerJoe you must not live in NY state or else you would know that an all NY democratic house & senate (Kirstan Gillibrand & Chuck Schumer) allow Emperor Cuomo to issue executive orders. The capital of NY state is Albany NY, which is also a sanctuary city and the reason i moved to Saratoga which is not. NY state used to always be the number 1 highest income taxed state in the union. However, it has fallen to number 2 after California since last year.

There are safety nets for workers that are sidelined by illness in NY state (another reason income taxes are so high = tax payer funded).
https://www.fisherphillips.com/resources-alerts-comprehensive-faqs-for-employers-on-the-covid
http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/TheBoard/indemnity-fact-sheet.pdf
https://www.workcompcentral.com/news/article/id/b13809c5d9325d719c24e4c2d603c5d60a2b2008




You guessed that correctly, I do not live in NY state. It sounds like it is run by a dictator.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 168
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 10:24:16 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
My question is, how can governor Cuomo order private industries to waive a cost? Is he having the state pay for the testing?


This is what happens in countries with UHC. Some countries, like Poland and Germany, make you pay 125 Euro. Here in Italy the test is free.

Obviously sick people all around the World that cannot afford the cost (possibly because they cannot work, too) will not be tested - unless you make it make mandatory by law. I don't know how much you have to pay in the US for a test. I hope that the expense is low enough to allow tests on all suspected cases.

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Post #: 169
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 12:17:30 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
My son-in-law is a private contractor for carpentry and plumbing in Saratoga NY.
One of his employees went to Italy on vacation two weeks ago with wife. She became ill there and did not get tested for Corona virus.
They both returned home to Saratoga NY and still did not get tested because they did not want to pay for it.
The employee wants to come back to work but my son-in-law says no way. Told the employee that he and his wife must be tested for Corona Virus first.
In NY state Gov. Andy Cuomo has ordered health insurance companies to waive the fee for Corona Virus testing. So employee and sick wife will not have an out of pocket expense for testing.
But in the meantime he and his wife have been shopping at stores and socializing with friends and relatives.


I'm sorry, but that's incredibly irresponsible on their part. There needs to be communication from all levels of government and citizenry to make sure folks like this get tested to avoid larger outbreaks which will kill many people. Unfortunately, it is looking like a lot of people have their head in the sand and just think the virus will somehow behave differently here. Frankly, your son should call the health department and make them aware.

Regards,

- Erik



< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 3/5/2020 12:19:23 PM >

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Post #: 170
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 12:42:14 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/as-the-coronavirus-spreads-one-study-predicts-that-even-the-best-case-scenario-is-15-million-dead-and-a-2424-trillion-hit-to-global-gdp/ar-BB10MtVb

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Post #: 171
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 12:49:35 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Taiwan set an example:

https://healthpolicy.fsi.stanford.edu/news/how-taiwan-used-big-data-transparency-central-command-protect-its-people-coronavirus

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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Post #: 172
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 4:10:43 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		A lot of folks with the head in the sand... I wish they were correct but if it's not the case, they are spreading false information... for some sordid reasons... and this might kill unaware people (the this is a flu ridiculous brigade)

Global mortality rate is around 3%. That's what WHO says. I personally think numbers or variables are necessarily unknown. In China and elsewhere. To get the mortality rate you need the correct number of infected. And to get that number you need to do tests aka who has the covid-19 errr Houston, we have a logistical problem here: not enough devices and personnel... aren't we missing lots of infected?

Tests:

China = tens of thousands every single day
South Korea = 10.000 every single day
UK = 7.000 every single day


These are the countries' numbers that I do trust (no matter what the trolls might think) simply because they put the money where the mouth is.

NOW...

I want to be optimistic. China was obviously overwhelmed + unpreparedness but in the end they did a massive job (that's what WHO says, so pay attention). Not sure their numbers describe reality though. It's South Korean numbers that might matter. These numbers suggest death rate is around 0,53%. Remember: massive daily tests (10.000 as per above).

Flu mortality rate is around 0,1%- 0,2%. What I am trying to say is that 2%-3% will be a very huge massacre if let's say 50% of humanity is infected. Spanish Flu 2.0 if not worse. A [SK] 0,53% is still deadlier than flu but we would be dodging a bullet imho.

I would love it even better if even SK numbers were incorrect, because they might still be missing more infected = mortality rate would be in fact lower than that 0,53%

Time will tell.

PS I'm also assuming the other variable (deaths) is accurate too.

PPS mortality rate will also depend on the healthcare system. The states with universal healthcare aka China, Europe, SK, Japan, Anzac, Canada are much better prepared. The rest (no healthcare worth that name + the poor states)... good luck...

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/5/2020 4:18:40 PM >

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Post #: 173
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 4:41:04 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		Whatever the country where you live, protect yourself so as not to get sick so as not to clog up the hospitals (which will no longer be able to treat current urgent cases ...) because it will be the beginning of a hecatomb, it is haunting of all governments.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/25/491261766/new-virus-breaks-the-rules-of-infection?t=1583429393910

< Message edited by rico21 -- 3/5/2020 4:42:53 PM >

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 174
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 6:09:33 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings to All,
NY state Corona Virus cases doubled overnight from 11 to 22:
https://www.wamc.org/post/22-infected-covid-19-new-york-state

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 175
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 6:32:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Still, as a percentage of the population did it really change?

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Post #: 176
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 8:09:25 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		From Italy:

"At this moment in time, we believe it is important to share our first impressions and what we have learned in the first ten days of the COVID-19 outbreak.

We have seen a very high number of ICU admissions, almost entirely due to severe hypoxic respiratory failure requiring mechanical ventilation.

The surge can be important during an outbreak and cluster containment has to be in place to slow down virus transmission.

We are seeing a high percentage of positive cases being admitted to our Intensive Care Units, in the range of 10% of all positive patients.
We wish to convey a strong message: Get ready!"

https://mailchi.mp/esicm/the-future-of-haemodynamic-monitoring-first-webinar-of-the-year-1009715

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 177
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 11:43:38 PM   
OldSarge


Posts: 642
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline 		On the lighter side of Corona Virus news, it looks like the sales of Ding Dongs and Twinkies are on the rise as people stock up for a potentially long stay at home.

Coronavirus outbreak may have unleashed panic buying of Hostess Twinkies and Ding Dongs

Twinkies will last well into the zombie apocalypse!

_____________________________

You and the rest, you forgot the first rule of the fanatic: When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy.
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(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 178
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 11:47:48 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OldSarge

On the lighter side of Corona Virus news, it looks like the sales of Ding Dongs and Twinkies are on the rise as people stock up for a potentially long stay at home.

Coronavirus outbreak may have unleashed panic buying of Hostess Twinkies and Ding Dongs

Twinkies will last well into the zombie apocalypse!



_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to OldSarge)
Post #: 179
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/5/2020 11:49:57 PM   
OldSarge


Posts: 642
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

From Italy:
The surge can be important during an outbreak and cluster containment has to be in place to slow down virus transmission.

We are seeing a high percentage of positive cases being admitted to our Intensive Care Units, in the range of 10% of all positive patients.
We wish to convey a strong message: Get ready!"

https://mailchi.mp/esicm/the-future-of-haemodynamic-monitoring-first-webinar-of-the-year-1009715


Previously, WHO was breaking it out as 80% of the infected get it and have nothing worse than a really bad flu. The remaining 20% require hospitalization with only 5% needing ICU. That 10% figure is startling, should there be a surge it is very likely that there simply won't be enough ventilators to go around.



_____________________________

You and the rest, you forgot the first rule of the fanatic: When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy.
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(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 180
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