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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020

 
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/28/2020 11:52:40 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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SITUATION

Trouble's brewing in the Gulf. Israel's at war with Iranian-backed elements in Syria, and while Iran itself is maintaining an ominous silence in the region, nobody believes that will last for long. The river of commerce flowing through the Straits of Hormuz is a vulnerable target, within easy reach of Iranian action. There are hundreds of civilian ships passing through the narrow waterway, and they form a tempting and very vulnerable target. Somehow, we're expected to keep it safe.

I'm not too concerned about control of the air. I have a good number of land-based aircraft, including a sizable contingent of F-22s, some F-35s, plenty of F-15Es and F-16s, plus assorted other aircraft (including some B-52s). However, I'm much weaker at sea. There are no carrier groups here, or task groups of Aegis ships bristling with long-ranged SAMs. Instead, I have a scattering of minesweepers and assorted small corvettes, patrol craft, and missile boats, plus a couple of isolated Burkes and a Perry.

Iranian forces are keeping a low profile for the moment, and I'm not certain exactly what they'll bring to the fight. I don't expect to see many major surface units, but boat swarms could be a real problem, as could their submarines. In such confined quarters, with so many targets to choose from, they could hardly miss. Their air force probably won't be able to do much over my territory, but they could easily launch stand-off attacks at shipping while still over their own territory, so that's not much of a comfort. Worse, they don't even need to send aircraft to attack my bases. They've recently demonstrated a very credible SRBM force, when they attacked American bases in Iraq, and there's every reason to believe they can do it again here. Hopefully my Patriots are up to the task of shooting them down. Speaking of SAMs, the older Iranian SAMs shouldn't be a problem, but any of the later mobile systems could be a real menace, particularly in the narrow waters of the straits where they could cover their other operations.

So those are my major concerns; boat swarms, subs, SRBMs, SAMs, and mines mines mines.


PLAN

First and foremost, I need a better look at what's in Iranian ports and along their shores, so drones and E-8s are ordered to commence reconnaissance activities immediately.

Minesweeping forces are ordered to start heading for the straits. Since they are essentially defenceless, and quite vulnerable to low-tech air attack, they are ordered to only sweep in close proximity to escorting warships. My small number of Gulf-state corvettes, are tasked with this minesweeper escort role. Hopefully their SAMs can at least take a small toll of any attackers. My other three major combatants (the 2 Burkes and the Perry) are also ordered to the straits to provide area SAM cover. This will put them in uncomfortably close proximity to the enemy, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative at the moment.

My two best sonar ships, an LCS and one of the Gulf-State corvettes, are ordered to hasten mid-Gulf, and then head east, blasting away on their active VDS sonars. This will leave them exposed for the moment, but I think it is my best chance to hunt for prowling SSKs. They'll try and rejoin my other warships by mid-morning.

Strike aircraft are ordered to begin loading a variety of ordnance. F-16s load Mavericks, to tackle small-boat targets, while half the F-15Es and all the strike Mirages are fitted with a variety of 2,000 lb JDAMs (50/50 penetrator and conventional), and glide bombs. Unfortunately, I have no ARMs, which is going to be a problem, so the remaining F-15Es and the F-35s are fitted with a mix of WCMDs (guided cluster bombs) and SDBs to tackle the SAMs. Hopefully the SDBs will suck up most of the missiles ("SDB - the decoy you can't ignore") and let the cluster bombs through to do the rest.


Time to press play and see what happens!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 31
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/28/2020 11:59:37 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Here's a quick question.

When I find mines, would it be realistic to use the editor to put a no-nav zone around them on the Civilian side, as if issuing a Notice to Mariners? Or would that be outside the scope of the scenario?

Would ship captains receive this sort of warning in a timely fashion, and would they trust it if they did?


Edit: follow-up question - I've found mines, but they're apparently not active yet, so they're just sitting on the bottom inertly, completely unsweepable. My ships are equipped with 'Generic Mine Disposal Divers', so presumably these would be able to plant a charge to destroy the mines, even (especially!) before the mines activate. Is there any way to do this in Command?



< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 2/29/2020 12:22:30 AM >

(in reply to AndrewJ)
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 6:20:54 AM   
morphin

 

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Hm. I thought that mine sweeping as a bug in new version because i'm unable to seep mines. But maybe you are right and the mines are not active. Is it possible to check if mines are active in the editor?

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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 10:53:29 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

Hm. I thought that mine sweeping as a bug in new version because i'm unable to seep mines. But maybe you are right and the mines are not active. Is it possible to check if mines are active in the editor?


If you switch to the side that the mines belong to, you can see an small countdown beside the mines which tells how long until they activate. But then you would see all the enemy units and mines.

(in reply to morphin)
Post #: 34
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 11:45:07 AM   
Gunner98

 

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One thought is that the minecraft you have are mine hunters not mine sweepers. They're designed to carry ROVs to do the dirty work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minehunter

You can load them as boats (go the submarine menu) I think the US ones are the PAP 104/105/106 and the Brit ones are the Sea Fox






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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 1:15:35 PM   
serjames

 

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They will sweep, but you need to turn the kit on - it's not activated automatically in the minesweeping mission. Which I think is a bug. Can't comment on whther they will sweep non-activated mines.

Just check the light blue sweep arc is active behind them and it should work

Nice work btw BD - I think this IS a keeper - you should submit it once the other guys have finished testing

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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 1:18:31 PM   
morphin

 

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No it will not sweep non active mines.....

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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 2:24:11 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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For the mines, yes my sweeps are on, it's simply that the mines aren't active yet. They're just inert lumps on the bottom for the moment. Which is completely legitimate.

The sweepers aren't equipped with their ROVs as the scenario is written, so I haven't tried using any. I suspect that even if they were present, Command won't let me destroy inactive mines. I've never had any luck getting ROVs or divers to actually destroy mines using placed charges, and I'm not sure if it's even simulated yet.

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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 5:31:19 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

Here's a quick question.

quote:

When I find mines, would it be realistic to use the editor to put a no-nav zone around them on the Civilian side, as if issuing a Notice to Mariners? Or would that be outside the scope of the scenario?


Sure, wish you could do that in the game for a neutral and your side. That would be a great suggestion for the developers

quote:

Would ship captains receive this sort of warning in a timely fashion, and would they trust it if they did?


I suspect it would depend upon the source. If from USN/RN/France probably but if from a dubious source then maybe not.

quote:

Edit: follow-up question - I've found mines, but they're apparently not active yet, so they're just sitting on the bottom inertly, completely unsweepable. My ships are equipped with 'Generic Mine Disposal Divers', so presumably these would be able to plant a charge to destroy the mines, even (especially!) before the mines activate. Is there any way to do this in Command?


Yes I set the mines so they won't be active for 12 hours. Think about it from Iran's point of view. You want to have the night to lay mines to maximize the number of mines in the Straits and to have them active immediately is counterproductive as your more apt to be discovered and attacked. Now as to being unable to sweep them I agree this is also something for the developers to consider.


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(in reply to AndrewJ)
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RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 5:33:34 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

They will sweep, but you need to turn the kit on - it's not activated automatically in the minesweeping mission. Which I think is a bug. Can't comment on whther they will sweep non-activated mines.

Just check the light blue sweep arc is active behind them and it should work

Nice work btw BD - I think this IS a keeper - you should submit it once the other guys have finished testing


Thank you and thanks to all for looking at the sweeping issues. Sorry I'm just getting back to this but was deployed doing 14 and 15 hours days!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to serjames)
Post #: 40
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 5:34:34 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

The sweepers aren't equipped with their ROVs as the scenario is written, so I haven't tried using any. I suspect that even if they were present, Command won't let me destroy inactive mines. I've never had any luck getting ROVs or divers to actually destroy mines using placed charges, and I'm not sure if it's even simulated yet.


Will fix that! THANKS!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 41
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 6:44:07 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

The sweepers aren't equipped with their ROVs as the scenario is written, so I haven't tried using any.


Not sure I understand. Looking at the units the Avengers and Hunts are equipped with Sea Fox. What am I missing that I need to adjust?

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 42
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 2/29/2020 7:11:26 PM   
BeirutDude


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quote:

F 76 Jamaran [Moudge Class] starts on land just west of the relocated Bandhar Abbas.


I adjusted the Teleportation area so that the RPs are totally over the water. I would think the A/I would be set to not place a vessel over land when teleporting but maybe a bug? One other thing is I've noticed the maps have a disconnect with the Yellow Borders and the Stamen Maps. I also adjusted the Naval Base to ensure the docks are right on the yellow border in case that was the issue. The port's dock's (all four) orientation has been checked and they are all right. So hopefully adjusting the RPs for the Teleport area takes care of the issue.

Thanks for pointing it out!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 43
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/1/2020 3:00:33 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Clearly it's my eyes which need adjustment. I see them now. They're loaded as weapons. I had expected them to be deployable boats, like they were in one of Gunner98's scenarios, IIRC.

How do you make them work? Do they automatically fire if you're on a minesweeping mission?


(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 44
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/3/2020 1:03:18 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Well, here's how it went for me.


EXECUTION

First Evening

As reconnaissance aircraft spread out, we start to get a better look at the enemy disposition.

The bad news is that the Iranians have plenty of SAMs, and good ones too. There are at least half a dozen SA-20 batteries, and numerous SA-15s guarding airfields and ports, plus some legacy HAWKs and Warpac era equipment. I expect that there are plenty of hidden MANPADs as well. Anti-shipping missile batteries dot the shoreline and islands around the straits, usually safely under cover of the watchful SAMs.

Drones flying offshore take a close look at the coastal airbases, finding two dozen F-14s and some F-4s in the Bandar Abbas region, but nothing shows up in other locations. Of course, anything in shelters and hangars remains a complete unknown. Surprisingly, the Iranians have nothing in the air. I had expected some light patrols and maybe some ELINT / AEW activity, but the skies are empty. And why not? Now I can't judge their deployment patterns.

The drones also find that, as feared, there are a large number of small boats poised in harbours on the islands in the straits. These range from little Boghammers and Boston Whalers to some Tir-class torpedo boats. There are also some of the small Iranian submarines docked in Bandar Abbas, which makes me worry about the ones that I don't see. Are they already at sea, creeping along the bottom, waiting to pounce on passing freighters?

There doesn't appear to be significant Iranian naval activity in the NW end of the Gulf, so my patrol and missile boat flotilla operating off Bahrain is ordered to hurry east towards the straits. The shortest ranged ships (the little Cyclones) dash towards the ports in the UAE, hoping to have a chance to refuel before pressing onwards again.


Mining

The main Iranian naval activity is in the straits themselves, where we soon get a picture of half a dozen Iranian LSTs and minelayers moving about, along with some patrolling frigates. As the evening progresses, we get a series of increasingly explicit intelligence reports that they are dropping mines (well, presumed mines) into the water. The radar crews aboard the AEW and E-8s start keeping a careful plot of their movements. If we know where they've been, we should be able to head directly to the mines and begin sweeping immediately. This is where my plan to keep the minesweepers tightly escorted begins to break down, as leading sweepers are ordered to detach and follow in the path of the minelayers. Immediate sweeping before hostilities would be superb, but the risk of losing minesweepers to attack is rising rapidly.

The problem is, although we know where the presumed minelayers have been, we don't know where along their routes they might have started laying mines, so we have to check the entire trail. It isn't until 22:30 that we find the first mines, resting inertly on the bottom. This raises a conundrum. We can't sweep an inactive mine, and we don't have any idea when they're going to activate. Should my ships hang around the first mines they found, hoping they'll be able to sweep soon, or go scouting for more of them? My minesweepers split up some more, with some scouting ahead, while others loiter near the start of the mine trail, ready to begin as soon as they can. Meanwhile, the Iranian minelayers continue on their way, laying more mines and generally heading towards Bandar Abbas. At the same time, another Iranian ship comes out of Bandar Abbas. It's an oiler, and is headed SW, all alone. It doesn't seem to be headed for thirsty ships. Is it laying mines too? It certainly has cargo capacity for it, but it seems a risky way to use a valuable ship.


First Attack Orders

By 1:00 in the morning the evidence of mine-laying becomes so strong that we are given clearance to attack Iranian forces involved in mine-laying, but that doesn't mean we can open fire immediately. My ships are spread all over the place, hunting for mines, and if the Iranians shoot back, they could pick off isolated units while they are weakest. Orders are sent for my ships to close up into task-groups for local defence, and get out of land-based missile range. While they’re doing this the P-8s will be scrambled, carrying loadouts of deadly and discrete SLAMs, and head for the straits.

It takes about an hour to get everything in place, and then the radar-silent SLAMs strike without warning through the darkness. All the minelayers are struck and sink, one of them just within sight of the docks at Bandar Abbas. The Iranian oiler is still headed south-west, alone, in the center of the shipping lane, occasionally making slight course changes as she proceeds. Is she a valid mine-laying target? I think she must be, so she is struck and sunk too. There is no response from the Iranians, other than a couple of distant SAMs. Their frigates continue to patrol, and their aircraft stay on the ground. What are they up to?


Second Attack Order

As patrolling continues, the presence of Iranian submarines becomes pronounced. Several have been spotted coming out of Bandar Abbas, and many of them seem to be travelling with their scopes and snorkels up, so we've been able to keep basic track on at least three of them in the straits. The fact that there are more around becomes very obvious when one of my Burkes, heading east at high speed, spots a periscope so close there's nearly a collision. So much for my fancy sonar! Clearly, the Iranians are not content to sit at home.

Not long afterwards, around 3:00 AM, we start getting radar contacts on small boats, first at Kish Island, and later around Siri, Abu Musa, and Bandar Abbas. But, after the initial deployment, they just sit there. Are they awaiting a go code? In the meantime, their frigates continue to be a hassle, patrolling back and forth through areas where I'd like to station my minesweepers, and I find myself continually pushed out of position. It's not that I wouldn't win a fight, but rather that they'd spot me for their shore batteries, and could do some nasty damage in their own initial salvo.

While I'm cursing the frigates again, fresh orders come in at 5:00 AM: sink anything Iranian in the Gulf, and hit facilities on the islands (but not the mainland). This is welcome news, and a barrage of Exocets heads for the infuriating frigates. This draws immediate return fire from the frigate east of the straits, but fortunately he's only got four missiles, which my SAMs can handle. His gunfire, however, has a bit more range than I had anticipated, and my trailing minesweeper gets a sudden drenching from shell splashes, but fortunately no direct hits. The other two frigates in the west get struck down before they can spot me, and suddenly I have a lot more breathing room. (One of the biggest problems here was preventing leftover Exocets from wandering off to hit distant merchant ships…)

The enemy subs get some attention too, and three of them are sunk in rapid succession in the western approaches to the straits. However, there are at least two more up in the “corner” of the straits, where they have long-ranged SAM cover, and are close to enemy airbases. I’m reluctant to send my P-8s up into that environment, so those subs will get a free ride for the moment.


Airstrikes and General Hostilities

My first airstrikes hit the western islands (Kish, Sirri, and Abu Musa) just before 6:00 AM, as I try to knock down the SAMs and get at the land-based anti-shipping missiles which have been keeping me at a distance. The pairing of SDBs and WCMDs turn out to be excellent SAM crackers, and my other aircraft are soon able to pummel the islands, as general hostilities erupt throughout the region.

Dozens of Iranian small boats have been lurking under cover near the islands, and I’ve been reluctant to close with them until the enemy missiles were gone. Now they’re alive and angry, and they have targets in easy reach. My F-16s swoop in with Mavericks to pick off the torpedo boats, but the smaller Boghammers rip into some passing freighters. My patrol boats come rushing in at top speed, but they were too far away to prevent the damage, and several freighters drift to a halt after being struck by rockets and HMG fire. When my ships finally do arrive, a combination of gunfire and those handy little Griffin missiles on the Cyclones make a mess of the enemy. (No way I was firing Exocets at Boghammers…)

The Iranian subs get their shots in too. Two merchants get badly hit by torpedoes up in the “windy corner” near Bandar Abbas, and another two get hit (one eventually burning out and sinking) near the armed platform at Farsi Island. At first I wonder if the torpedoes were on the platform itself, and a P-8 uses a pair of SLAMs to set it on fire, but passing planes spot the subs several hours later, and they are eventually sunk.

The Iranian air-force finally makes a showing too, surging numerous F-14s, F-4s, and even some missile-carrying P-3s from the Bandar Abbas bases. My patrolling F-22s, loitering off the tip of Oman, are startled to find that the powerful radars on the F-14s are quite capable of spotting them at this range, which leads to some embarrassing high-speed retreats until enough fighters can be brought in to deal with the situation. More air-to-air fighting happens between F-15E and F-22s and the MiG-29s coming down from Shiraz, but the radar situation is much better here, and the F-22s keep things well in hand.

In the brief pause which follows, my F-35s are able to push north and unleash a swarm of SDBs at the Bandar Abbas SA-20, drowning it in quantity, while some F-15Es come in low, and pop up to fling WCMDs at the open parking at Bandar Abbas airport. The precision guided cluster bombs are devastating, wrecking numerous F-14s and other aircraft, making things much safer for my remaining air strikes. These hit the three anti-shipping missile batteries in the area, giving my minesweepers the freedom to get to work.


Skirmishing, and mineclearing

As most of my strike planes return home for reloads, fighters dip low to strafe the Boghammers, sinking a few and damaging others, and forcing them to turn back to base. This gives my patrol boats the time they need to close with the enemy and complete their destruction.

While my smaller patrol boats (the Cyclones, and Al Riffas) are doing this, the larger ones are closing on Abu Musa island, in company with my frigates and destroyers. Abu Musa is packed with AAA and other units, which would take ages to clear with Mavericks or the like, but when seven automatic 76mm guns, and a pair of 127s open up, the storm of gunfire has immediate and effective results! Abu Musa is swept clean of soft targets, and the other islands get similar treatment in turn, as does the SAM battery at Bandar Lengeh.

The Iranian mines are finally starting to rise to the surface, and my minesweepers get to work on the long and dangerous process of clearing the fields. Fortunately, with the routes of the minelayers known in advance, and the minefields mostly surveyed, the minesweepers usually get to the mines very soon after they rise. Consequently, despite a couple of close calls, the mines are swept before the merchants can collide with them.


Second Wave

My second wave of strikes starts around 2:00 in the afternoon. After a few TLAM shots (my first so far) to clear out vulnerable radars in the Bandar Abbas area and elsewhere, I launch a two-pronged attack.

The first target set is the remaining forces in the Bandar Abbas area, where the SA-5 and short ranged SAMs are destroyed, and the runways and other facilities are smashed. A side-branch of the attack, delivered by heavily-laden Mirages, wrecks the oil infrastructure and other soft targets like piers and docks on the various islands.

The second target set lies to the NNW, where I’ve been eyeing the two distant IRBM sites in northern Iran. I’ve not seen any IRBM activity so far, but this may change at any time. If I need to go SCUD-hunting in that region, then there are a pair of SA-20s at Bushehr and in the Shiraz area which are blocking my path. F-35s and F-15Es bring in the SDB swarm again, destroying the SAM batteries, and then following up with cluster bombs on nearby radars.


It looked like Iranian forces had been destroyed, sunk, or grounded by this point, so I wrapped it up by about 7:00 PM.



PLAY IMPRESSIONS

This is a good scenario; topical, timely, and interesting.

I really liked the series of messages stepping you into the situation, clearly defining what was going on and what your ROEs and objectives are. Some scenarios only give vague indications of what you’re supposed to do or what your superiors want. Here it felt like I was part of a command structure, and was being given realistic information and objectives.

The small-unit naval forces I had were not what I normally use (frankly, I didn’t even recall the Cyclones existed), and they player is in the interesting conundrum of how to guard and deploy the weak minesweepers, while simultaneously covering merchant shipping with patrol boats. If you disperse you can easily get swatted by shore batteries or frigates. If you concentrate, you can’t cover much at all. Personally, I chickened out. I could probably have forced into the neck of the straits and closer to the islands, trusting to my SAMs, and maybe have saved some more merchants, but I conceded the space to the Iranians until the missiles were destroyed.

The player probably has a little more air power (and TLAMs) than they really need. If I had surged the B-52s and TLAMs together I could have put 200 cruise missiles into the air, in addition to what I did use, which probably would have made for a really short scenario. The player is also PGM-rich. I used nearly 200 SDBs and 64 WCMDs, and was in no danger of running out.

I have to admit, I kept looking over my shoulder at those two IRBM sites, and wondering when the barrage would come, and when the Iranians would put my Patriots to the test. Were my airfields about to be bombarded, like the ones in Iraq? Was I going to be ordered to go on a time-critical SCUD-hunting mission with an active SA-20 in the region? (That’s partly why I kept the B-52s down – wondering if there would be a pop-up special target deep in the interior.)

Anyway, thanks for writing it, and I’ll have assorted technical comments later.


< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 3/3/2020 1:06:37 AM >

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 45
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/4/2020 2:10:34 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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A few assorted bits and pieces in no particular order…


Now that I've looked, it turns out there really are IRBMs! However, they don't have a strike mission, and they don't have orders to engage opportunity targets, so they remain motionless and do not fire. It would definitely be great to have them in the action, to give my Patriots a workout, and maybe knock off some of the player aircraft.

It looks like the SeaFox anti-mine ROVs aren’t implemented for mineclearing. None of them were actually used despite my ships having cleared numerous mines. All my mine-clearing was done with sweeps. You can manually BOL them, but when the sonar turns on the SeaFox does not home in on the mines, even after they are active.

Three of the piers at the Bandar Abbas naval base are underwater (-5m depth), and thus they cannot be attacked by the player. (Unfortunately, the land graphics are offset from the actual depths, so putting things at the water’s edge can often have this problem.) You will probably need new units. I tried moving them, but that didn't seem to help.

At the support facility in Manamah, Bahrain, one of the docks has been given the name of an MCM ship by accident.

All your messages refer to the 4th of July, but the actual scenario date is set to the 3rd/4th of June.

EAM 4 has no side set in its message action, so the player does not see it.

EAM 7 has a typo "as soon as practical at your ." (discretion?)

Many open structures such as runways, taxiways, runway access points, tarmac spaces, and revetments (I think) cannot actually be destroyed. They stop at 99.9% damage, on the theory that they can eventually be rebuilt. Thus, the event triggers set to ‘destroyed’ will never fire for these units, and players cannot get points for striking them. A trigger set to a very high damage level (95%?) works well instead.

I was really surprised that there was no Iranian air activity of any sort until hostilities broke out. Some civil air traffic to go with the tanker traffic, perhaps ending shortly before the hostilities break out as Iran grounds its traffic? Maybe an ELINT or maritime surveillance flight or two to keep an eye on the initial stages of the situation? Certainly not essential, but maybe interesting. A few older attack planes (F-5s?) having a go at merchants with bombs in the north end of the Gulf might keep the player spread out and off balance a bit too.

There are six American RH-53D Sea Stallions with minesweeping gear at the Iranian NAS Bandar Abbas. They’re on the same Maritime Patrol mission as the P-3s, and puzzled the heck out of me when they came flying out as part of their offensive surge. Do the Iranians actually have any of these? Or were they supposed to be on the Allied side?

I was certainly confused by the naval resupply ships coming out of Bandar Abbas on the ‘Straits of Hormuz – Sea Control Mission’, and convinced myself that one of them had to be minelaying. What are they actually supposed to be doing? It seems a waste of their main logistics ships if they’re being sent out scouting.

The little Iranian subs have a tiny battery capacity, quickly used it up in futile attempts to investigate passing contacts, and spent most of their time snorkelling. This let me find and track most of them fairly easily. While they can creep for 26.7 hours / 80 miles, according to the DB, they can only cruise for just under 7 hours / 33 miles, or move at full for a little over 1 hour / 7 miles. Since they’re unlikely to catch anything unless it runs over them, maybe limiting their transit throttle to creep, and attack throttle to cruise, would keep them submerged and dangerous for longer? (By contrast, the Kilo can cruise for well over a day, and works well with current settings.) All the same, the little subs were still the most effective killers, causing more sinkings than the surface ships.

I don’t know if you had wanted them to, but the Iranian shore-based missiles were not firing on the allied ships or the merchant ships, even when they were in range and fully identified as hostile targets by radar and by eye. Engage Opportunities = Yes will let them shoot at anything, although the merchant casualties from the ones on the mainland (which the player is not supposed to be engaging at first) are likely to be horrific. If you want the missiles to be reserved for warships only, then an AsuW Strike mission with a preselected target list works well, to prevent the missiles from being used on merchants.

I was able to break up a number of the Boghammer attacks by repeatedly strafing with passing fighters. Maybe adding a MANPADS to a few (not all) of them would help keep the player wary of exploiting that sort of tactic?


Thanks again for the interesting scenario.

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 46
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/15/2020 3:07:38 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Now that I've looked, it turns out there really are IRBMs! However, they don't have a strike mission, and they don't have orders to engage opportunity targets, so they remain motionless and do not fire. It would definitely be great to have them in the action, to give my Patriots a workout, and maybe knock off some of the player aircraft


Hmmmmmm, it did! It might have been deleted when I was tweaking? I teaked airfileds and when I did might have lost the mission. Will check, thanks!

quote:

It looks like the SeaFox anti-mine ROVs aren’t implemented for mineclearing. None of them were actually used despite my ships having cleared numerous mines. All my mine-clearing was done with sweeps. You can manually BOL them, but when the sonar turns on the SeaFox does not home in on the mines, even after they are active.


Yeah, discovered that myself. Sounds like one for the developers

quote:

Three of the piers at the Bandar Abbas naval base are underwater (-5m depth), and thus they cannot be attacked by the player. (Unfortunately, the land graphics are offset from the actual depths, so putting things at the water’s edge can often have this problem.) You will probably need new units. I tried moving them, but that didn't seem to help.


This is a frustration with the Littoral. If I delete them then I have to rebuild the ships assigned to the pier with all the issues with points for them. Might just have to leave be.

quote:

At the support facility in Manamah, Bahrain, one of the docks has been given the name of an MCM ship by accident.


I noticed that in the new version when renaming a unit you THINK you are on the unit you want to rename but you are actually renaming the last unit you were on. Will check. Thanks.

quote:

All your messages refer to the 4th of July, but the actual scenario date is set to the 3rd/4th of June.


Will check/fix thanks!

quote:

EAM 4 has no side set in its message action, so the player does not see it.


Will check/fix thanks!

quote:

EAM 7 has a typo "as soon as practical at your ." (discretion?)


Yup, Will check/fix thanks!

quote:

Many open structures such as runways, taxiways, runway access points, tarmac spaces, and revetments (I think) cannot actually be destroyed. They stop at 99.9% damage, on the theory that they can eventually be rebuilt. Thus, the event triggers set to ‘destroyed’ will never fire for these units, and players cannot get points for striking them. A trigger set to a very high damage level (95%?) works well instead.


Really, I never knew that.

quote:

I was really surprised that there was no Iranian air activity of any sort until hostilities broke out. Some civil air traffic to go with the tanker traffic, perhaps ending shortly before the hostilities break out as Iran grounds its traffic? Maybe an ELINT or maritime surveillance flight or two to keep an eye on the initial stages of the situation? Certainly not essential, but maybe interesting. A few older attack planes (F-5s?) having a go at merchants with bombs in the north end of the Gulf might keep the player spread out and off balance a bit too.


All things that were in there originally and I took out as it was getting too large. Can tweak the MPA aircraft mission to begin earlier.

quote:

There are six American RH-53D Sea Stallions with minesweeping gear at the Iranian NAS Bandar Abbas. They’re on the same Maritime Patrol mission as the P-3s, and puzzled the heck out of me when they came flying out as part of their offensive surge. Do the Iranians actually have any of these? Or were they supposed to be on the Allied side?


They do, like the F-5 and F-14s they go back to the pre-revolutionary days.

quote:

I was certainly confused by the naval resupply ships coming out of Bandar Abbas on the ‘Straits of Hormuz – Sea Control Mission’, and convinced myself that one of them had to be minelaying. What are they actually supposed to be doing? It seems a waste of their main logistics ships if they’re being sent out scouting.


I just figured the Iraninas would use them for logistics to keep the frigates in action as long as possible.

quote:

The little Iranian subs have a tiny battery capacity, quickly used it up in futile attempts to investigate passing contacts, and spent most of their time snorkelling. This let me find and track most of them fairly easily. While they can creep for 26.7 hours / 80 miles, according to the DB, they can only cruise for just under 7 hours / 33 miles, or move at full for a little over 1 hour / 7 miles. Since they’re unlikely to catch anything unless it runs over them, maybe limiting their transit throttle to creep, and attack throttle to cruise, would keep them submerged and dangerous for longer? (By contrast, the Kilo can cruise for well over a day, and works well with current settings.) All the same, the little subs were still the most effective killers, causing more sinkings than the surface ships.


They are a large part of the IRGC's OOB.

quote:

I don’t know if you had wanted them to, but the Iranian shore-based missiles were not firing on the allied ships or the merchant ships, even when they were in range and fully identified as hostile targets by radar and by eye. Engage Opportunities = Yes will let them shoot at anything, although the merchant casualties from the ones on the mainland (which the player is not supposed to be engaging at first) are likely to be horrific. If you want the missiles to be reserved for warships only, then an AsuW Strike mission with a preselected target list works well, to prevent the missiles from being used on merchants.


Thanks, will look at it and adjust.

quote:

I was able to break up a number of the Boghammer attacks by repeatedly strafing with passing fighters. Maybe adding a MANPADS to a few (not all) of them would help keep the player wary of exploiting that sort of tactic?


Good idea, not sure I can make this change without a large rewrite of the Boghammers as they all start in port

quote:

Thanks again for the interesting scenario.


Thanks for your help, even half these tweaks will make it a better scenario, and I was going to give up on it to be honest.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 47
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/15/2020 7:40:23 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
quote:

uote:Three of the piers at the Bandar Abbas naval base are underwater (-5m depth), and thus they cannot be attacked by the player. (Unfortunately, the land graphics are offset from the actual depths, so putting things at the water’s edge can often have this problem.) You will probably need new units. I tried moving them, but that didn't seem to help.

This is a frustration with the Littoral. If I delete them then I have to rebuild the ships assigned to the pier with all the issues with points for them. Might just have to leave be.


They are an Iranian deception. Flooded piers , the Soviets did it with bridges for real...

_____________________________

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(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 48
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/15/2020 9:47:42 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Fixed the vast majority of what you pointed out.

Couldn't edit the Boghammers in port (as I thought) but added some with MPSAMs. If you think about it not all of the boats would likely have them, but enough to keep the Aircraft guessing/honest.

Can't do anything about Bandar Abbas Piers without completely rebuilding the base and vessels in it and that is going to add a bunch of other errors.

IRBM issue should be resolved.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 49
RE: Scenario for Play test: Hormuz 2020 - 3/16/2020 2:09:03 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Most recent adjustments incorporated. Unless I have made some huge errors, which my play test tonight didn't uncover, I think this might be ready for release.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 3/16/2020 2:10:10 AM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 50
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