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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 8:38:19 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Can we change the name of the thread to China Virus?

"Hall monitor"


Words matter. This isn't funny.

I see the intended humour, but you may not realise that for people of any asian decent that has dire consequences. You're a reasonable person (mostly) and can understand that the government of China is the issue, not the people. Using this phrase though, for people who already have some bias or overt racism, enforces those beliefs and is causing them to act on them.

Here in Britain and from reports around the world, East Asians, whether Chinese or not, have been verbally abused, ostracised and physically attacked after the Corona Virus began moving out from China.

This is from yesterday in NYC
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/woman-needs-stitches-after-anti-asian-hate-crime-attack-city-n1177146

Here is another. The anxiety of moving through an environment that is turning against you is also damaging.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/chinese-coronavirus-racist-attacks.html

As bigots blame them for the coronavirus and President Trump labels it the “Chinese virus,” many Chinese-Americans say they are terrified of what could come next.

Yuanyuan Zhu was walking to her gym in San Francisco on March 9, thinking the workout could be her last for a while, when she noticed that a man was shouting at her. He was yelling an expletive about China. Then a bus passed, she recalled, and he screamed after it, “Run them over.”

She tried to keep her distance, but when the light changed, she was stuck waiting with him at the crosswalk. She could feel him staring at her. And then, suddenly, she felt it: his saliva hitting her face and her favorite sweater.


In London a student from Singapore was beaten so badly by thugs in the middle of the biggest shopping area in London, Oxford St, in the middle of the afternoon, that he may require facial reconstruction.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/03/uk/coronavirus-assault-student-london-scli-intl-gbr/index.html

None of this is funny.


It is not funny but there are bullies and blowhards every where.

Are you going to rename the Spanish flu?

Are you going to rename the Hong Kong flu?

Are you going to rename the Asian flu?

Are you going to rename the Zika virus?

Are you going to rename Ebola?

There are many other examples as well throughout history.

I described concentration camps in this thread and a government worker thought that it was funny and responded accordingly.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3691
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 9:54:48 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Can we change the name of the thread to China Virus?

"Hall monitor"


Words matter. This isn't funny.

I see the intended humour, but you may not realise that for people of any asian decent that has dire consequences. You're a reasonable person (mostly) and can understand that the government of China is the issue, not the people. Using this phrase though, for people who already have some bias or overt racism, enforces those beliefs and is causing them to act on them.

Here in Britain and from reports around the world, East Asians, whether Chinese or not, have been verbally abused, ostracised and physically attacked after the Corona Virus began moving out from China.

This is from yesterday in NYC
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/woman-needs-stitches-after-anti-asian-hate-crime-attack-city-n1177146

Here is another. The anxiety of moving through an environment that is turning against you is also damaging.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/chinese-coronavirus-racist-attacks.html

As bigots blame them for the coronavirus and President Trump labels it the “Chinese virus,” many Chinese-Americans say they are terrified of what could come next.

Yuanyuan Zhu was walking to her gym in San Francisco on March 9, thinking the workout could be her last for a while, when she noticed that a man was shouting at her. He was yelling an expletive about China. Then a bus passed, she recalled, and he screamed after it, “Run them over.”

She tried to keep her distance, but when the light changed, she was stuck waiting with him at the crosswalk. She could feel him staring at her. And then, suddenly, she felt it: his saliva hitting her face and her favorite sweater.


In London a student from Singapore was beaten so badly by thugs in the middle of the biggest shopping area in London, Oxford St, in the middle of the afternoon, that he may require facial reconstruction.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/03/uk/coronavirus-assault-student-london-scli-intl-gbr/index.html

None of this is funny.


It is not funny but there are bullies and blowhards every where.

Are you going to rename the Spanish flu?

There are many other examples as well throughout history.



As I'm sure you know well, the generally accepted term for this viruses has been Coronavirus, technically SARS-CoV2, and it is now more often referred to as Covid-19.

We were all raised during an era when humour was different. I am no exception. I love Rodney Dangerfield. He made fun of every culture, equally, for the most part. And himself.

This is not the same thing. In this time, (and probably in times past when racism was much more a common thread of humour and much more dangerous to minorities even than it is now, but was often institutionalised like in the US) using this kind of language normalises the implied blame for the pain, anger, confusion and difficulty people are feeling now. Especially now we have to be more careful about how we speak about others.

There are bullies and blowhards everywhere, but the difference is that since this crisis has begun, they have been targeting asians with increasing frequency and violence. That is the problem. The language and the attitude are all intertwined, and it for some reason makes some people respond in ways they haven't been until now, and targeting people they haven't been until now.

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/7/2020 10:01:16 AM >


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Post #: 3692
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 10:43:01 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus: Tiger at Bronx Zoo tests positive for Covid-19

3 hours ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52177586

A four-year-old female Malayan tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for the coronavirus.

"The tiger, named Nadia, is believed to be the first known case of an animal infected with Covid-19 in the US.

The Bronx Zoo, in New York City, says the test result was confirmed by the National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Iowa.

Nadia, along with six other big cats, is thought to have been infected by an asymptomatic zoo keeper.

The cats started showing symptoms, including a dry cough, late last month after exposure to the employee, who has not been identified. "


That was on the news earlier and they said that France had a case of a dog carrying the virus some time ago. I guess the message is: don't get too cozy with your pet or tiger.


I live with seven cats and feed a half dozen more. Have seen the same headlines, and also the story of a captive tiger testing positive.

Did some follow up research and found several articles by medical professionals stating that the positive feline tests should not be taken as representative of a threat to humans as the feline versions of Corona viruses are unique to felines and are NOT the same virus currently attacking humans.

I hope I can believe the medical professionals more than the journalists looking for something to hype.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/7/2020 10:53:06 AM >


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Post #: 3693
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 11:34:34 AM   
Canoerebel


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On the 6th, mortality in the US was 700 less than the 1,967 projected by the Univ. of Washington site (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america).

To this point, each day has been below the projection, which I assume is the kind of trend that helped lead the researchers/modelers to issue the encouraging update yesterday morning. Hopefully that trend continues.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 11:42:56 AM   
Canoerebel


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Spain's new cases chart, through yesterday. The number reported today is 3,835. If that's the final report on the day it would be a big drop. (Usually, Spain is updated on Worldometers once per day but not always. There was a late addendum to yesterday's mortality number bringing it up to the same as the day before.)




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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 11:56:10 AM   
Canoerebel


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With yesterday's news from Denmark re: gradually relaxing countermeasures, a quick look at nearby Netherlands showed that the number of new cases may have flattened and mortalities may be dropping a bit, but the bell curve still seems fairly early. Belgium seems earlier in its curve, especially for mortalities. Both nations have fairly high Mortality/M, though not close to Italy's and Spain's levels yet. Germany new cases way down but mortality very high in the bell curve ...though total numbers still low in comparison to many countries (just 22/M).

Saw a news report last night that more than half of cases in Chicago are African American (https://abc7chicago.com/coronavirus-illinois-african-americans-chicago/6081249/). 32% of Chicago's population is black and about 66% overall is minority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago).

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/7/2020 11:59:55 AM >

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:11:35 PM   
RangerJoe


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We could be vastly overestimating the death rate for COVID-19. Here's why
04 Apr 2020
Nina Schwalbe
Member of the Council on Foreign Relations; Principal Visiting Fellow, United Nations University International Institute for Global Health

quote:



A lack of adequate testing means many of those who have been infected with the coronavirus will not appear in official statistics.
This suggests that many estimates for its mortality rate are much too high.
We need to build better systems for sharing and reporting data.

Public health epidemiology is the science of counting to prevent disease and promote health. We count the number of new cases of a particular disease; this is the incidence. Then we count how much a disease has spread in a population; this is the prevalence.

When it comes to COVID-19, counting is a challenge. Despite all the news articles and reports, we know very little about the incidence or prevalence of this new disease. And as is always the case: ignorance breeds fear. In my hometown of New York City and elsewhere one fear is on just about everyone’s mind: death rates here appear to be considerably higher than rates reported elsewhere.

Or are they? Using patient data from China, public health officials initially estimated that 80% of COVID-19 cases are either asymptomatic or have mild disease. Given that hospital beds, health workers, and test kits are in short supply, only highly symptomatic people are advised to go to the hospital. Because of lack of adequate testing, including in the United States, in many places only hospital patients are now counted as cases. The people who do not feel seriously ill stay home, recover quietly, and are never counted. This matters because they do not appear in any of the official statistics.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/we-could-be-vastly-overestimating-the-death-rate-for-covid-19-heres-why/

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 4/7/2020 12:12:57 PM >


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Post #: 3697
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:15:07 PM   
RangerJoe


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Oh boy, look at Ireland!

Ireland's PM will work as a doctor during the coronavirus crisis
06 Apr 2020
Thomson Reuters Foundation

quote:



Ireland's Prime Minister, Leo Varadkar has re-registered as a medical practitioner in an effort to help out throughout the coronavirus crisis.
He will work one shift a week, whilst continuing to lead the country through the pandemic.
Varadkar worked as a doctor for seven years before entering politics.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/ireland-medical-doctore-prime-minister-coronavirus-covid19-health/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:15:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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I just went back and skimmed through the first five pages of this thread. Lots of interesting reading there. Early projections and analysis from rank amateurs, thoughtful forumites and outright experts. Some things gotten right and some wrong. Back then, the mortality figured used was 2% in this thread (and, from memory, 3% to 5% in many sources). Right now that figure seems to be mostly at 1%. If RangerJoe's source is right, and if things continue improving, in the end this may be much less than 1%. There was some early discussion of that possibility in this thread, at a time when it seems hopelessly optimistic.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/7/2020 12:55:15 PM >

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:26:42 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:


That was on the news earlier and they said that France had a case of a dog carrying the virus some time ago. I guess the message is: don't get too cozy with your pet or tiger.


I would be careful if I were you. Almost all covid testing is a viral RNA PCR test where the test sequence chosen was a genome region specific to covid-19. Also, don't forget, the Civet was the likely amplification species for SARS-1. The story seems plausible to me. Also the bat is NOT a bird. It's a mammal. I would keep your cats in if possible. Unless they are roaming around they are more likely to get it from you than vice versa.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:32:51 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Bojo's Erdogan poem

There was a young fellow from Ankara

Who was a terrific wankerer

Till he sowed his wild oats

With the help of a goat

But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

...

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:50:06 PM   
MakeeLearn


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CDC head downplays COVID-19 models, says deaths will be 'much lower' than projected
7 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-head-downplays-covid-19-models-says-deaths-will-be-much-lower-than-projected/ar-BB12fhcx?li=BBnb7Kz


"One of the nation’s top public health officials suggested Monday that because Americans are taking social distancing recommendations “to heart,” the death toll from the novel coronavirus will be “much, much, much lower” than models have projected.

“If we just social distance, we will see this virus and this outbreak basically decline, decline, decline. And I think that's what you're seeing,” said Robert Redfield, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control.

“I think you're going to see the numbers are, in fact, going to be much less than what would have been predicted by the models,” he said."

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:52:21 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Grocery workers are beginning to die of coronavirus
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/grocery-workers-are-beginning-to-die-of-coronavirus/ar-BB12eFSF?li=BBnb7Kz


"Major supermarket chains are beginning to report their first coronavirus-related employee deaths, leading to store closures and increasing anxiety among grocery workers as the pandemic intensifies across the country."

"Those efforts are likely to take on new urgency, analysts said, as supermarket workers across the country begin to see colleagues fall ill from covid-19. More than 356,000 Americans have tested positive for the coronavirus as of Monday afternoon, and nearly 10,500 have died. "


Two of the local shops we've gone to have cashiers without facial protection. It's hard to see. I go in with my overused but still effective PPE3 mask (stock from my construction projects reserve), sanitiser in pocket, gloves on and full sleeves to limit exposure.

I've been thinking for a while this could be bad. What do you do if no one is willing or able to work in stores and there is not enough PPE to go around?




Release the Robots!!!

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 12:57:22 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Navy official’s fiery speech deepens a political crisis as warship battles coronavirus
9 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-officials-fiery-speech-deepens-a-political-crisis-as-warship-battles-coronavirus/ar-BB12f8a3?li=BBnb7Kz


"Acting Navy secretary Thomas Modly told the sailors that Navy Capt. Brett Crozier, relieved of command on Thursday, committed a “betrayal” by writing the letter and distributing it to some people who were not in his chain of command. Modly left open two possibilities, both of which were damning."

"“His decision to relieve Captain Crozier was at best an overreaction to the extraordinary steps the Captain took to protect his crew,” he said in a statement. "


Even if every one of the crew was infected and sick, it would still be wrong to leak it to the public.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2020 1:24:37 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:00:36 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Crewmember on Navy hospital ship Comfort tests positive for coronavirus
6 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/crewmember-on-navy-hospital-ship-comfort-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB12fgAw?li=BBnb7Kz

"A crew member aboard the U.S. Navy hospital ship USNS Comfort has tested positive for novel coronavirus and is currently in isolation aboard the ship that is currently docked in New York City, according to a U.S. Navy statement."


< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2020 1:01:00 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:02:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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MakeeLearn's post just above about CDC director's comments are big, big news. The link, again, to the story:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-head-downplays-covid-19-models-says-deaths-will-be-much-lower-than-projected/ar-BB12fhcx?li=BBnb7Kz




Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:03:38 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Bojo's Erdogan poem

There was a young fellow from Ankara

Who was a terrific wankerer

Till he sowed his wild oats

With the help of a goat

But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

...

Brings a new meaning to Wankel Engine.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:07:24 PM   
MakeeLearn


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How did coronavirus break out? Theories abound as researchers race to solve genetic detective story
April 7, 2020

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/07/how-did-coronavirus-break-out-theories-abound-as-researchers-race-to-solve-genetic-detective-story/

"It was a bioweapon manufactured by the Chinese. The US Army brought the virus to Wuhan. It leaked — like a genie out of a bottle — from a lab in an accident. It took root at a wildlife market in Wuhan."


"Researchers hope to trace the virus that is killing tens of thousands to a yet-to-be captured bat in the wild.

Another source of debate is whether the virus that causes Covid-19 transferred directly from bat to human, or whether there was an “intermediate” animal between."
"To date, one thing seems likely: It came from bats."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2020 1:15:11 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:09:14 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Vietnam's total coronavirus cases rise to 249, no deaths
April 7, 2020

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vietnam/vietnams-total-coronavirus-cases-rise-to-249-no-deaths-idUSKBN21P1OI

"HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnam’s health ministry reported four more confirmed coronavirus cases on Tuesday, bringing the country’s total to 249, with no deaths.

More than 94,000 coronavirus tests have been carried out in Vietnam, it said, and 122 patients have been discharged. "

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:09:43 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Once the curve starts to dip, the political pressure for relaxation of restrictions will be a tsunami.

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Post #: 3710
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:12:41 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Stark photos show miles-long row of cars waiting outside a Florida food bank as demand surges by 600 per cent and more than half-a-million residents file for unemployment
6 April 2020

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193153/Miles-long-row-cars-waits-outside-Florida-food-bank-demand-produce-surges-600-cent.html



"Feeding South Florida, a nonprofit, distributed food to needy Floridian motorists on Monday

A long line of vehicles was seen waiting at a distribution center in Sunrise, just outside of Fort Lauderdale

Food banks have reported a 600 per cent spike in demand for produce amid coronavirus pandemic
Recent figures showed that more than 500,000 Floridians filed for unemployment benefits "

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:14:38 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

....

But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

...



That is why he is a wankerer

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:35:36 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Once the curve starts to dip, the political pressure for relaxation of restrictions will be a tsunami.

I trying to figure out how this is going to work in NYC. Right now everything non essential is closed and that has been extended to 4/29/20. Now I believe infections and mortality will come way down by then. So now what? We started this by saying business had to reduce staff by 50%, then 75% and then pretty much 95%. Do we do that in reverse? Open business and let 25% of staff back in? How does that work? I expect that would just open the flood gates and the roads and trains would be jammed again. Maybe keep restaurants, retail and bars closed and open offices at 25%? How do you police that? These are all questions we need to figure out.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 3713
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:36:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Israel Imposes Passover Curfew as Coronavirus Cases Top 9,000
Apr 07, 2020

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/coronavirus-in-israel-closure-on-more-cities-death-toll-rises-ultra-orthodox-town-1.8737999


"As the highly contagious coronavirus spreads around the world, Israel and the Palestinians struggle to contain a local outbreak that has virtually halted daily life and led to tens of thousands of people entering quarantine."

9,006 Israelis have so far tested positive for the coronavirus; 60 people have died. In the West Bank, 246 cases have been diagnosed so far. One woman in her 60s has died. In Gaza, 12 cases have been diagnosed."




What is irony?

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2020 1:37:20 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:38:22 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Navy official’s fiery speech deepens a political crisis as warship battles coronavirus
9 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-officials-fiery-speech-deepens-a-political-crisis-as-warship-battles-coronavirus/ar-BB12f8a3?li=BBnb7Kz


"Acting Navy secretary Thomas Modly told the sailors that Navy Capt. Brett Crozier, relieved of command on Thursday, committed a “betrayal” by writing the letter and distributing it to some people who were not in his chain of command. Modly left open two possibilities, both of which were damning."

"“His decision to relieve Captain Crozier was at best an overreaction to the extraordinary steps the Captain took to protect his crew,” he said in a statement. "


Even if every one of the crew was infected and sick, it would still be wrong to leak it to the public.


Didn't Teddy Roosevelt do the exact same thing in the Spanish American War and be applauded for it?

IIRC it was related to soldiers with malaria or the like.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 1:58:43 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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MacArthur went behind Truman's back to the Press and got his Hero of Inchon ass fired...with good reason.

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Post #: 3716
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 2:05:47 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
Status: offline
There may be USN SSBN's on extended cruises who don't even know about COVID. Imagine that. Say they put to sea in early December...they would have zero cases and to learn about the catastrophe would be a distraction from their mission. Maybe the Navy notifies the Captain on VLF? Even with that there is some guy named "Sparks" that receives the message. Perhaps the Captain has a decryption device he uses himself?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3717
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 2:07:58 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
USS Roosevelt had a 5 day port call in Vietnam before the ship hit the fan. In retrospect, that wasn't such a good idea.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3718
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 2:08:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
My email to family last Tuesday included this assessment: "A few days ago, a major university in the UK revised its mortality estimate for that country from 500,000 to 20,000. Similarly, the US projections are currently 100k to 200k mortality (as widely reported in the news). That’s down by 10x what had been projected a few weeks ago. I think US estimate will drop more – probably a lot more. In the end, I expect (as a layman, an optimist without any credentials whatsoever) that the US death toll will be something in line with a seasonal flu outbreak – perhaps 20k to 40k over the next three or four months. Most mortalities will be the elderly and those with exacerbating conditions (obesity) or health issues (diabetes, etc.)."

At the time, the news and information coming at us was almost uniformly negative. Things were bleak and seemed to be spiraling continually bleaker. But it was the first time there seemed to be enough reliable data to hazard a guess.

(My family has strictly adhered to countermeasure requirements in place in our jurisdictions.)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3719
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/7/2020 2:11:47 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Coronavirus? Pandemic? For many in Sweden, life goes on as usual.
10 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-pandemic-for-many-in-sweden-life-goes-on-as-usual/ar-BB12eVjY?li=BBnb7Kz


""Is it really that damn bad?" Sandra Bergkvist, a 28-year-old grocery clerk from nearby Akersberga, asked rhetorically as she enjoyed a beer with a group of friends. "Of course we're worried about people in the risk groups, but if it wasn't for media it wouldn't have been this hysterical." "

_____________________________








(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3720
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