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RE: OT: Corona virus

 
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 3:37:28 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've barely followed this story until today. Looks grim. Did the governor have options or were his hands basically tied? Did the severity of the outbreak leave him no good choices?

I don't know much about Cuomo, but I'd assume any governor is trying to do his best under difficult circumstances.




My best guess is to say it never really reached Cuomo, a decision was made down the line probably to save money as nursing homes cost less than hospitals.

You probably could count on one hand the state administered nursing homes that could safely handle positive covid patients.


Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here" and maybe some people need to remember that.
warspite1

I think that is very unfair. To blame a dead ex-President for the problems with New York nursing homes is wrong and I'm sure Mr Truman didn't mean to imply he would take responsibility for that......


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6871
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 3:52:06 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

It is an increasing trend to try and distill your messaging into key words and phrases to enhance reach.

More recently, the winner has to be reducing complex international negotiations and legislation down to three words: "Get Brexit Done"
warspite1

Well the referendum took place in June 2016. In December 2019 there was still endless debate and argument about leaving, remaining, type of Brexit, Referendum 2 (The Sequel), blah blah blah blah

So the message put out was vote for me and we'll "Get Brexit Done".

Whereas the message emanating from the other corner was.... "it's been over 3 years since the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU. Since then there has been nothing but argument, counter-argument, chaos and confusion. Vote for me and...I'll allow that wholly unsatisfactory state of affairs to continue for another interminable length of time because I either don't have the mental capacity to make a decision I believe is right, or because I do know what I think is right but will make me lose the election if I make that clear (but don't have the foggiest understanding that not making my position clear will have the same result anyway)."

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/7/2020 4:15:28 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 6872
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 4:03:03 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here" and maybe some people need to remember that.


Say what you want about Rudy Giuliani, but when you walked into the office of the Mayor of New York, the most prominent thing on his desk was this sign:

"I'm Responsible"

_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6873
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 7:15:58 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

It is an increasing trend to try and distill your messaging into key words and phrases to enhance reach.

More recently, the winner has to be reducing complex international negotiations and legislation down to three words: "Get Brexit Done"
warspite1

Well the referendum took place in June 2016. In December 2019 there was still endless debate and argument about leaving, remaining, type of Brexit, Referendum 2 (The Sequel), blah blah blah blah



Rightly so. What type of Brexit did the majority vote for?

BINO? No deal? Something in-between?

Worth remembering that no deal Brexit was touted as a complete fantasy by the pro-Brexit camp, when in reality it was only major concessions from the UK that avoided it.

quote:

So the message put out was vote for me and we'll "Get Brexit Done".


Perhaps a more accurate version would have been "Brexit at any cost".

See, for example, the situation with the Irish border. Something that was promised in 2016 that would not happen.

quote:

Whereas the message emanating from the other corner was.... "it's been over 3 years since the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU. Since then there has been nothing but argument, counter-argument, chaos and confusion. Vote for me and...I'll allow that wholly unsatisfactory state of affairs to continue for another interminable length of time because I either don't have the mental capacity to make a decision I believe is right, or because I do know what I think is right but will make me lose the election if I make that clear (but don't have the foggiest understanding that not making my position clear will have the same result anyway)."


That may be your opinion, but a more consultative approach on Brexit may be have been more sensible given the:

- divisive nature of the topic
- stark regional differences in voting and ramifications for the devolved governments (thinking of NI more than Scotland)
- lack of an agreed single vision of Brexit.

quote:

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...


Sensible for whom?

There are some that would say that it is a gross over-simplification of what is an exceptionally complex issue, with ramifications for the entire country.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6874
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 8:38:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

It is an increasing trend to try and distill your messaging into key words and phrases to enhance reach.

More recently, the winner has to be reducing complex international negotiations and legislation down to three words: "Get Brexit Done"
warspite1

Well the referendum took place in June 2016. In December 2019 there was still endless debate and argument about leaving, remaining, type of Brexit, Referendum 2 (The Sequel), blah blah blah blah

So the message put out was vote for me and we'll "Get Brexit Done".

Whereas the message emanating from the other corner was.... "it's been over 3 years since the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU. Since then there has been nothing but argument, counter-argument, chaos and confusion. Vote for me and...I'll allow that wholly unsatisfactory state of affairs to continue for another interminable length of time because I either don't have the mental capacity to make a decision I believe is right, or because I do know what I think is right but will make me lose the election if I make that clear (but don't have the foggiest understanding that not making my position clear will have the same result anyway)."

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...



This has been the case for a while now. Certain groups can use catch phrases that have power and stick, that end up becoming a defining concept for the public. There is a quiet brilliance in the development of those simple words and phrases.

On the other hand the world is very complex, and others want people to be aware that it's not as easy as a catch phrase, and try to spell out the complexity with some carefully bullet-pointed programs. Many with an eye on the news, aware the complexity of many issues, with the patience and interest, aware of the multiple sides at play, see those longer platforms and actually find some value.

A larger and larger majority just want someone to tell them it's going to be okay. They see a tagline and feel confidence that those behind it will help them return to a ideal normal they envisage, whether or not that has ever actually been normal or ideal.

It really comes down to the increase in information with the rise of the internet. In teaching design I stress the use of increasing visual symbols to stand for words, phrases and ideas, the increasing use of acronyms and abbreviated names and phrases and how that plays a part in distilling the complexity into something everyone can understand quickly and easily, sometimes across languages and borders.

#hashtags are definitely part of this trend, as is the move to Instagram image-based marketing.

People want to feel confident in platforms, and want platforms to feel confident. That can be tricky though, since it's easier to be confident in simple taglines than try to relay confidence in communicating the nuance that is really inherent in the world and it's machinery.


< Message edited by obvert -- 5/7/2020 9:25:48 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6875
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 8:42:56 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...


Sensible for whom?

There are some that would say that it is a gross over-simplification of what is an exceptionally complex issue, with ramifications for the entire country.


It's a sensible way to sell your platform. People want simple.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/7/2020 8:43:15 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 6876
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 9:16:45 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

It is an increasing trend to try and distill your messaging into key words and phrases to enhance reach.

More recently, the winner has to be reducing complex international negotiations and legislation down to three words: "Get Brexit Done"
warspite1

Well the referendum took place in June 2016. In December 2019 there was still endless debate and argument about leaving, remaining, type of Brexit, Referendum 2 (The Sequel), blah blah blah blah



Rightly so. What type of Brexit did the majority vote for?

BINO? No deal? Something in-between?

Worth remembering that no deal Brexit was touted as a complete fantasy by the pro-Brexit camp, when in reality it was only major concessions from the UK that avoided it.

quote:

So the message put out was vote for me and we'll "Get Brexit Done".


Perhaps a more accurate version would have been "Brexit at any cost".

See, for example, the situation with the Irish border. Something that was promised in 2016 that would not happen.

quote:

Whereas the message emanating from the other corner was.... "it's been over 3 years since the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU. Since then there has been nothing but argument, counter-argument, chaos and confusion. Vote for me and...I'll allow that wholly unsatisfactory state of affairs to continue for another interminable length of time because I either don't have the mental capacity to make a decision I believe is right, or because I do know what I think is right but will make me lose the election if I make that clear (but don't have the foggiest understanding that not making my position clear will have the same result anyway)."


That may be your opinion, but a more consultative approach on Brexit may be have been more sensible given the:

- divisive nature of the topic
- stark regional differences in voting and ramifications for the devolved governments (thinking of NI more than Scotland)
- lack of an agreed single vision of Brexit.

quote:

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...


Sensible for whom?

There are some that would say that it is a gross over-simplification of what is an exceptionally complex issue, with ramifications for the entire country.
warspite1

No I wasn't looking for a Brexit debate on this forum. It was a relatively light hearted view on the benefits of a clear, simple message vs a moronic attempt to evade the issue. I make no comment on whether I agree or not - and is certainly far too complex an issue to be written off in a few words - but it resonated with the public and got him re-elected.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/7/2020 9:18:55 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 6877
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 9:17:35 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

Right or wrong, distilling your message into a few key words and phrases can be a sensible course of action...


Sensible for whom?

There are some that would say that it is a gross over-simplification of what is an exceptionally complex issue, with ramifications for the entire country.


It's a sensible way to sell your platform. People want simple.
warspite1

Thank-you obvert - that was the point I was trying to make.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 6878
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 10:56:40 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



So I can't understand Hans' absolutism because I try to see the truth but have to admit that there are usually things I can't quite figure out in most stories without making a judgement about the character of the actors.


A candid admission of being mired in that grey fog I alluded to.

Don't worry, not meant as an insult as we are all mired in it together.




_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 6879
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 10:57:20 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



The important point is to see both sides





Correction: The important point is the see the correct side.



You have to understand both sides to see where they're coming from. Right or wrong side, understanding both sides is more important than the correct side. Sometimes there isn't a correct side... you ever have kids...?



You misunderstood my point.

Once you have SEEN both sides what is IMPORTANT is discerning which one is CORRECT, ie....seeing the correct side.

There is ALWAYS a correct side (yes, I am one of those crazies who believes in an absolute reality).

Often we just can't see through the grey fog to discern it.


I am sorry, but that isn't always true.



Yes, it is.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6880
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:02:47 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've barely followed this story until today. Looks grim. Did the governor have options or were his hands basically tied? Did the severity of the outbreak leave him no good choices?

I don't know much about Cuomo, but I'd assume any governor is trying to do his best under difficult circumstances.




My best guess is to say it never really reached Cuomo, a decision was made down the line probably to save money as nursing homes cost less than hospitals.

You probably could count on one hand the state administered nursing homes that could safely handle positive covid patients.


Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here" and maybe some people need to remember that.
warspite1

I think that is very unfair. To blame a dead ex-President for the problems with New York nursing homes is wrong and I'm sure Mr Truman didn't mean to imply he would take responsibility for that......




Thank you for the injection of levity.

Very well done sir.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6881
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:06:05 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Australia fears suicide spike due to virus shutdown

Thousands of Australians are expected to take their own lives because of the financial and psychological stress of the coronavirus crisis, far outstripping the death toll from the disease itself, experts warned Thursday.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200507-australia-fears-suicide-spike-due-to-virus-shutdown

----

Another news article about a model. "Experts."

I am so dubious of models, polls, and experts.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6882
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:06:38 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've barely followed this story until today. Looks grim. Did the governor have options or were his hands basically tied? Did the severity of the outbreak leave him no good choices?

I don't know much about Cuomo, but I'd assume any governor is trying to do his best under difficult circumstances.


My best guess is to say it never really reached Cuomo, a decision was made down the line probably to save money as nursing homes cost less than hospitals.

You probably could count on one hand the state administered nursing homes that could safely handle positive covid patients.


Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here" and maybe some people need to remember that.
warspite1

I think that is very unfair. To blame a dead ex-President for the problems with New York nursing homes is wrong and I'm sure Mr Truman didn't mean to imply he would take responsibility for that......


I am not blaming an ex-President for the problems with the New York nursing homes. I am blaming the Chief Executive officer of the New York state administration. You appear to misunderstand the meaning behind "The Buck Stops Here."

quote:

For those of you who are history freaks, you know that President Harry S. Truman had a sign on his desk that read: “The Buck Stops Here.” It meant he accepted accountability for all the decisions of his administration. Truman’s stand exists in organizations today but, unfortunately, as the exception rather than the rule.

In Brandon Hall Group’s 2014 State of Performance Management Survey, 34% of global organizations said that executives do not hold leaders accountable for performance. In our 2014 State of Talent Management Survey, results showed that 39% plan to increase or significantly increase their focus next year on holding managers accountable.

Without accountability, even the most brilliant, hard-working, well-intentioned leaders fail – they fail to meet their performance goals, they fail to develop their teams, they fail to hire top talent, they fail to coach their employees, they fail to communicate clearly, they fail to optimize performance, and they fail the business overall. Effective leadership requires real accountability.

What Is Accountability?

When leaders take personal accountability, they are willing to answer for the outcomes of their choices, their behaviors, and their actions in all situations in which they are involved. Accountable leaders do not blame others when things go topsy-turvy. Rather, they make things right – they are fixers. Accountable leaders build an accurate understanding of their organization – where it excels and where it has opportunity. Accountable leaders step up to champion opportunities to succeed. Accountable leaders question the decisions and processes that shape your organization. They ask questions and they find answers – the best answers.

Accountability goes beyond individual actions and decisions. Accountable leaders assume ownership for the performance of their teams – just like Truman assumed accountability for the performance of his administration.


There is more here:

http://www.brandonhall.com/blogs/the-buck-stops-here-a-culture-of-accountability-drives-effective-leadership/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6883
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:23:28 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Uber layoffs, following Lyft, Airbnb, add to SF economic pain

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Uber-cuts-3-700-in-biggest-SF-tech-layoffs-during-15250731.php

I just can't for the life of me see how this ends well. If your 50+ I suspect the odds of you taking a permanent paycut for the rest of your working life is pretty high. Your ability to start your own business in this new operating environment pretty low unless it is focused on exploiting the new lockdown which will in turn create a vicious unproductive circle that feeds upon itself.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/7/2020 11:24:05 AM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6884
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:36:45 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Here are the testing numbers by percentage positive from today. More updates which helps. The UK again down about a half percentage point, the US by almost that much.

Span still hovering at 12.4%, just above the 10% guideline for reopening. Italy dropping to 9.3%, which is positive. No rise so far from Germany as they begin tentative re-opening (6.0%), or Denmark (3.5%). Sweden is slightly down at 15.6%. The Netherlands a bit down but still up at 17%. Belgium at 18.6%. France hasn't reported in a while.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/7/2020 11:41:59 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6885
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:44:13 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Coronavirus Update: Supreme Court Denies Pennsylvania Businesses' Bid To Reopen

https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-update-supreme-court-denies-pennsylvania-businesses-bid-reopen-2971742

just a couple of notes from a native Pennsylvania ex-small business owner:

1. The state govt had a secret decision making review board to decide which were essential life support and could stay open. That decision making is secret. Funny how Gov Wolfe's former cabinet making business was considered essential.

2. The lockdown in PA started when the death toll was under 200 people I believe. PA has a population 20% greater than Sweden, and has slightly more deaths attributed to Covid. 3106 to 2941.

3. There would be no way I would put my assets at risk starting a new business in this environment. The risk reward ratio of starting a business is high to begin with, but future shutdowns seem a foregone conclusion. I am not sure where funding for business startups is going to come from and how it is going to migrate. Crowd funding is not applicable for a lot of startups.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/7/2020 11:55:39 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6886
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:48:32 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
AP Exclusive: Admin shelves CDC guide to reopening country
6 hrs ago



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-exclusive-admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country/ar-BB13IuyC?li=BBnb7Kz


"White House spokeswoman Kayleigh McEnany echoed that at a briefing Wednesday. "We’ve consulted individually with states, but as I said, it’s (a) governor-led effort. It’s a state-led effort on ... which the federal government will consult. And we do so each and every day.”

The rejected reopening guidance was described by one of the federal officials as a touchstone document that was to be used as a blueprint for other groups inside the CDC who are creating the same type of instructional materials for other facilities."

_____________________________








(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6887
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 11:56:17 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Coronavirus and Other Causes Driving Surge in US Deaths
April 30, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/04/30/health/ap-us-med-virus-outbreak-us-deaths.html


"NEW YORK — The U.S. has seen at least 66,000 more deaths than usual so far this year, according to government data, and the new coronavirus accounts for much — but not all — of the increase.

Usually the nation sees about 1 million deaths by the end of April, meaning the rise is in the neighborhood of 7%. "


"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which posted the data this week, found the new coronavirus was reported as a cause in about half the excess deaths. It’s likely the virus was a factor in many other deaths too, said Robert Anderson, who oversees the CDC’s death statistics work."


"Medical examiners say drug overdoses, falls and certain types of accidents around the house may be up. Experts also believe at least some of the excess deaths may have been people with heart problems or other conditions who decided not to go to a hospital because of concerns they were filled with coronavirus-infected people."

_____________________________








(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6888
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:02:08 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
"Coronavirus Statistics: Tracking The Epidemic In New York"
May 6, 2020


https://gothamist.com/news/coronavirus-statistics-tracking-epidemic-new-york




"Each day the New York City Department of Health releases demographic data on COVID-19 deaths.

The majority of those who die of COVID are aged 65+ and/or those with pre-existing health conditions, which the DOH defines as: "Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease, and GI/Liver Disease." Note: these demographics include "confirmed" COVID cases only, and exclude "probable" deaths."

_____________________________








(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6889
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:05:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus and Other Causes Driving Surge in US Deaths
April 30, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/04/30/health/ap-us-med-virus-outbreak-us-deaths.html


"NEW YORK — The U.S. has seen at least 66,000 more deaths than usual so far this year, according to government data, and the new coronavirus accounts for much — but not all — of the increase.

Usually the nation sees about 1 million deaths by the end of April, meaning the rise is in the neighborhood of 7%. "


"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which posted the data this week, found the new coronavirus was reported as a cause in about half the excess deaths. It’s likely the virus was a factor in many other deaths too, said Robert Anderson, who oversees the CDC’s death statistics work."


"Medical examiners say drug overdoses, falls and certain types of accidents around the house may be up. Experts also believe at least some of the excess deaths may have been people with heart problems or other conditions who decided not to go to a hospital because of concerns they were filled with coronavirus-infected people."


Paywall. I was interested to see where this data comes from, as the CDC data I have seen at their website and posted here is the opposite.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6890
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:07:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Was Britain's lockdown a waste of time? Scientists find draconian stay-at-home orders had little effect on curbing coronavirus outbreaks in Europe - but closing schools and banning all mass gatherings did work

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294507/New-study-reveals-blueprint-getting-Covid-19-lockdown.html

There are a ton of charts, graphs, and numbers in this article.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6891
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:09:55 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus and Other Causes Driving Surge in US Deaths
April 30, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/04/30/health/ap-us-med-virus-outbreak-us-deaths.html


"NEW YORK — The U.S. has seen at least 66,000 more deaths than usual so far this year, according to government data, and the new coronavirus accounts for much — but not all — of the increase.

Usually the nation sees about 1 million deaths by the end of April, meaning the rise is in the neighborhood of 7%. "


"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which posted the data this week, found the new coronavirus was reported as a cause in about half the excess deaths. It’s likely the virus was a factor in many other deaths too, said Robert Anderson, who oversees the CDC’s death statistics work."


"Medical examiners say drug overdoses, falls and certain types of accidents around the house may be up. Experts also believe at least some of the excess deaths may have been people with heart problems or other conditions who decided not to go to a hospital because of concerns they were filled with coronavirus-infected people."


Paywall. I was interested to see where this data comes from, as the CDC data I have seen at their website and posted here is the opposite.




I did't pay. I believe if you signup for their daily news briefing you can view their articles.

_____________________________








(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6892
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:19:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus and Other Causes Driving Surge in US Deaths
April 30, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/04/30/health/ap-us-med-virus-outbreak-us-deaths.html


"NEW YORK — The U.S. has seen at least 66,000 more deaths than usual so far this year, according to government data, and the new coronavirus accounts for much — but not all — of the increase.

Usually the nation sees about 1 million deaths by the end of April, meaning the rise is in the neighborhood of 7%. "


"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which posted the data this week, found the new coronavirus was reported as a cause in about half the excess deaths. It’s likely the virus was a factor in many other deaths too, said Robert Anderson, who oversees the CDC’s death statistics work."


"Medical examiners say drug overdoses, falls and certain types of accidents around the house may be up. Experts also believe at least some of the excess deaths may have been people with heart problems or other conditions who decided not to go to a hospital because of concerns they were filled with coronavirus-infected people."


Paywall. I was interested to see where this data comes from, as the CDC data I have seen at their website and posted here is the opposite.




I did't pay. I believe if you signup for their daily news briefing you can view their articles.


Good to know. Thank you.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6893
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:22:20 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
This is the New York state order for Nursing Homes to accept covid positive patients. March 25. It is for all Nursing Homes, not just the state administered ones like I previously thought.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6894
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:22:39 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
It's not only the "Coronavirus Navy"




quote:

“To reinvent themselves as a naval expeditionary force within budget limits, the Marines plan to get rid of all of their tanks, cut back on their aircraft and shrink in total numbers from 189,000 to as few as 170,000, Gen. Berger said. “I have come to the conclusion that we need to contract the size of the Marine Corps to get quality,” he said.”


https://defense.info/re-thinking-strategy/2020/05/the-usmc-commandants-china-bet-reactions-and-key-questions/

Now stratgy wise...

Hmmmmmmmmmm?!!

quote:

The idea is that in a war with China, America’s hulking aircraft carriers might be pushed far out to sea by the threat of missiles. But small groups of 50 to 150 Marines, wielding armed drones, rockets and anti-ship missiles, could get up close, fanning out on islands along and inside the chain from Japan to the Philippines. Like a high-tech echo of the insurgents they once fought, they would jump from one makeshift base to another every couple of days to avoid being spotted and targeted, says General Berger. They could feed targeting information back to more distant ships and warplanes, or pepper the Chinese fleet with fire themselves—a form of dispersed, island-hopping warfare designed to stop a Chinese attack in its tracks.


< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/7/2020 12:24:30 PM >


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(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6895
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:35:06 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

New York and California are infamous for having the most aggressive out of state audits.


Cuomo: Out-of-State Health Care Workers Who Came to New York to Help Now Subject to NY State Income Tax



https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/05/cuomo-health-care-workers-who-volunteered-to-help-with-covid-19-must-pay-state-income-tax/


Oh, man that REALLY looks bad. Calif is bad too. One time the State Franchise Tax Board sent out two "revenue agents" in the ugliest tan Ford Fairlane ever made (with no hubcaps and an "E" plate). They went around the neighborhood in their $25 suits trying to get people to rat on their neighbor who was a big shot professional tennis player claiming a Nevada residence. They found out he owned the place and were trying to attach his earnings to the Calif residence. My wife misunderstood their purpose and was telling them exactly the wrong slant and then I overheard the conversation and came to the door and voiced my concerns about the confiscatory tax policies of my fair state and to "stay off my lawn". They left and then I got a state audit notice about 2 months later.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6896
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:37:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

It's not only the "Coronavirus Navy"

quote:

“To reinvent themselves as a naval expeditionary force within budget limits, the Marines plan to get rid of all of their tanks, cut back on their aircraft and shrink in total numbers from 189,000 to as few as 170,000, Gen. Berger said. “I have come to the conclusion that we need to contract the size of the Marine Corps to get quality,” he said.”


https://defense.info/re-thinking-strategy/2020/05/the-usmc-commandants-china-bet-reactions-and-key-questions/

Now stratgy wise...

Hmmmmmmmmmm?!!

quote:

The idea is that in a war with China, America’s hulking aircraft carriers might be pushed far out to sea by the threat of missiles. But small groups of 50 to 150 Marines, wielding armed drones, rockets and anti-ship missiles, could get up close, fanning out on islands along and inside the chain from Japan to the Philippines. Like a high-tech echo of the insurgents they once fought, they would jump from one makeshift base to another every couple of days to avoid being spotted and targeted, says General Berger. They could feed targeting information back to more distant ships and warplanes, or pepper the Chinese fleet with fire themselves—a form of dispersed, island-hopping warfare designed to stop a Chinese attack in its tracks.




I thought that job would be more of a Special Forces nature. You know, the SEALs and the Girl Scouts . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6897
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:41:30 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

they would jump from one makeshift base to another every couple of days to avoid being spotted and targeted,



Priceless!

_____________________________








(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6898
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:42:58 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

But small groups of 50 to 150 Marines



About half women?


I believe the Coronavirus will put us in the bag for the Chinese to grab.

_____________________________








(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6899
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/7/2020 12:50:02 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

This is the New York state order for Nursing Homes to accept covid positive patients. March 25. It is for all Nursing Homes, not just the state administered ones like I previously thought.







Even though this looks terrible I can understand the motivation. The system is built on having the safety valve of lower level of care facilities for patients not sick enough for the expensive high support care of acute care hospitals. These are patients that need either permanent of extended support like physical therapy or injectable medications or even finish out antibiotic therapies. Sadly, these are often patients who have no or incompetent family support. Almost all could be managed at home with home nursing or nursing aides if their "family" gave a damn or didn't have other social problems.

The problem is the level of expertise is not the same as an acute care hospital and the caregiver might have 8 or more patients each and the economic margins are thinner so they likely skimp on PPE. Sending COVID patients still excreting virus to such a facility is signing a death warrant to the uninfected patients there because they ALL have pre-existing conditions.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6900
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