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Some imagination about scale-up of AB.

 
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Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/12/2020 3:55:22 AM   
exsonic01

 

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From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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Warning: just pure brainstorming, nothing more.

CMO and AB are far different game. But I think AB can try something like CMO, but one concentrated to ground-war-oriented version.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about which one is good or bad, or which one is good or poor. No benchmark in this post.

But what I wish to convey is the future possibility. CMANO (and CMO) is the game for navy and air force, and it expands to army. It is very early stage for army and everything is abstracted for ground combat. But they are still doing something one by one.

Maybe AB can bring similar approach: AB is not airforce or navy game and it doesn't need to. However, using current system, it could be possible to introduce some touch of airforce and navy. If CMO is top-down approach, AB can do bottom-up approach.

Something like:

Plan strike package mission including CAS (direct fire support on player's battle ground) and interdiction (target enemy artillery groups). All actions regarding interdiction mission will be off-map and will not be able to be controlled by player, but AB can show the moment from zoomed-out regional map. Include SEAD/DEAD mission package with dedicated anti-radiation equipment or ECM pods.

Let players purchase interceptor or air-superiority fighter and give them CAP / intercept mission. All air-to-air combats are automated, off-map, cannot be directly controlled by player. But maybe, let players set up the patrol zone and no-go zone for air planes as well. It doesn't need to show the detail of dogfight or 3D maneuvers in AB, just abstraction would be fine (but if it is possible to show them, that would be great). Just like BVR missile exchange, and WVR missile / gun exchange. This way, CAS mission or interdiction mission can be denied or intercepted based on which faction get the air superiority.

Maybe, it would be better to let players invest to off-map SAM battery with some price, and let them deploy where they want on regional map. This way, players can design their air-superiority combat or air-denial region using SAM/AAA trap zone.

Let interdictor / fighter-bomber / bomber can use stand-off weapons (based on era), or a lot of conventional bombs (LGB or non-guided). Let's assume LoS of HQ can act as LGB guidance with laser designator or introduce proper air controller or FIST/COLT team. Give some huge price and map size limitation to purchase those "strategic" or "semi-strategic" weapons, so that they can be only available at 'large' game, not 'medium' or 'small' game.

If stand-off weapons are introduced, then something like Lance missile and cruise missiles might be available for this game. NGS in form of cruise missile and naval guns from destroyers / cruisers. Maybe introducing naval aircrafts for the region near coastline.

I'm perfectly OK with 2D top view. Instead of 3D version of AB, maybe, how about incorporate AB with TACVIEW? I don't know which one might be easier and cheaper (TACVIEW or new 3D modeling), but TACVIEW with AB might be a good option to give additional PoV other than 2D top view. (I have no relations with TACVIEW and TACVIEW is not perfect, I know, but just an idea)

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 3/12/2020 4:40:36 AM >
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RE: Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/12/2020 9:45:06 AM   
thewood1

 

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Yes, let's get TacView involved in this game too. Because everything went so smoothly with it in CMO. That is sarcasm.

(in reply to exsonic01)
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RE: Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/12/2020 11:08:13 AM   
Lowlaner2012

 

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For me tacview is a nice bit of eye-candy, but I kinda wish they hadn't initially included it with CMO, I beleive the devs should have released and concentrated on the main and new game engine and then released TV when CMO was more bug and problem free...

Exsonic I think what you would like would be a game that meshes AB and CMO, I just don't see it ever happening, maybe there is a possibility that CMOs ground warfare element will get good enough to rival AB in a couple of years... But again I don't see much possibility of this and I'm ok with that, I love both games...


And also don't forget that ABs AI has got to be able to use any system that is added, when a mission is generated in AB the AI makes a plan on the fly(please correct my if I'm wrong Vietikka), in CMO scanarios are made and are scripted using Lua and patrol missions etc...

For me I'm happy with the Arty and CAS systems in AB, they are abstraced, but that's ok because they do the job...

And thewood1... meooww put those claws away 😉

Cheers


< Message edited by Lowlaner2012 -- 3/12/2020 11:11:52 AM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 3
RE: Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/12/2020 1:29:07 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
Yes, let's get TacView involved in this game too. Because everything went so smoothly with it in CMO. That is sarcasm.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowlaner2012
For me tacview is a nice bit of eye-candy, but I kinda wish they hadn't initially included it with CMO, I beleive the devs should have released and concentrated on the main and new game engine and then released TV when CMO was more bug and problem free...
Exsonic I think what you would like would be a game that meshes AB and CMO, I just don't see it ever happening, maybe there is a possibility that CMOs ground warfare element will get good enough to rival AB in a couple of years... But again I don't see much possibility of this and I'm ok with that, I love both games...
And also don't forget that ABs AI has got to be able to use any system that is added, when a mission is generated in AB the AI makes a plan on the fly(please correct my if I'm wrong Vietikka), in CMO scanarios are made and are scripted using Lua and patrol missions etc...
For me I'm happy with the Arty and CAS systems in AB, they are abstraced, but that's ok because they do the job...
And thewood1... meooww put those claws away 😉
Cheers


Yeah, TACVIEW is kinda eye candy and I also agree CMO should've put more effort to polish their games than invest to such eye candy... But I didn't know TV has a lot of issues like that... Is TV bug serious? deserve all those sarcasms here and there?

Of course, I also don't see my idea (of scale up for navy and air force) as a feasible one for near or any foreseeable future, this post was just kinda daydream of mine for far future plan if devs have something similar in their mind But I'm OK if devs don't like this idea. Again, this is just my opinion and my daydream, I just wish AB consider such idea seriously because AB has a good potential.

But if you think about it, there have been no commercial public cold war ~ modern wargames which covers good amount of army, navy, and air force all together, with good historical accuracy, and showing and allowing to control individual units in real time. Plus, my idea is not like "let's make AB looks like CMO". AB should have its own form and originality of focusing on ground combat, but my idea is like 'let's introduce a small or medium sized windows for more weapons and for more fire power'. And scale up the game just a little bit where a player can try up to divisional commander or something similar level. Good example would be Command Ops 2, and I think AB has some similarity with Command Ops 2. While the scale of Command Ops 2 varies with scenarios, it can depict up to division size (or slightly larger)conflicts. I think AB can try too.

Well said about AI, that is why I also think AB has a great potential.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 3/12/2020 4:57:08 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 4
RE: Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/14/2020 2:57:02 AM   
deltapooh41

 

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I like the standoff/guided munitions idea. Planned CAS is a little more difficult. Jim Lunsford's Decisive Action had an unofficial update that added CAS planning, but then he abandoned the whole game. I don't think AB is built for above battalion level operations. However, it does have the potential to move beyond the 1980s. That would include some of thewood1's ideas. HQ's could designate targets for strikes. Standoff munitions can be used to some extent. I don't know if this requires a new engine, but there is a gap in wargaming that AB can fill.

I stayed away from CMO because it caters to a market I'm not interested in. Jane's Fleet Command was better and drew me into naval operations. CMO should have invested in a more friendly game environment. All the data is overwhelming and without some 3D graphics, very stale.

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 5
RE: Some imagination about scale-up of AB. - 3/14/2020 6:58:35 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: deltapooh41

I like the standoff/guided munitions idea. Planned CAS is a little more difficult. Jim Lunsford's Decisive Action had an unofficial update that added CAS planning, but then he abandoned the whole game. I don't think AB is built for above battalion level operations. However, it does have the potential to move beyond the 1980s. That would include some of thewood1's ideas. HQ's could designate targets for strikes. Standoff munitions can be used to some extent. I don't know if this requires a new engine, but there is a gap in wargaming that AB can fill.

I stayed away from CMO because it caters to a market I'm not interested in. Jane's Fleet Command was better and drew me into naval operations. CMO should have invested in a more friendly game environment. All the data is overwhelming and without some 3D graphics, very stale.

I never tried Fleet Command but I wish to try. BTW, Cold Waters devs are developing "Sea Power" which looks like Fleet Command + Battlestation series according to other forum. Nothing came out yet but better check about this.

I agree with the gap. But I agree with you some those idea might be doable with current AB engine. I just want a bit of up-scaled version of AB but that decision will be dev's to made. But again, those are pure brainstorming, nothing more.

(in reply to deltapooh41)
Post #: 6
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