Does this seem normal?

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Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 12:35:15 PM

countrboy

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So in February 1943, 18 Russian bombers are escorted on a bombing raid by 92 fighters. The target is a panzer division and an infantry division. The results?

7 German fighters rise to the challenge and shoot down 3 fighters and 2 bombers for zero losses, despite being outnumbered more than 10 to 1. Is this normal?

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< Message edited by countrboy -- 3/20/2020 12:37:31 PM >

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 1:38:28 PM

Repsol

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The 72 german AA-guns probably helped the defenders.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 2:22:03 PM

xhoel

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Yes, pretty normal. You can't conclude that your losses were lost due to A2A combat. Could have been operational losses due to bad weather conditions. In any case the LW can do hit and run since they can outrun your planes and their fighter pilots are more experienced.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 2:31:19 PM

eskuche

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Also if your planes are fatigued you�re more likely to lose operationally. You can check distribution of loss reason in the losses screen but it doesn�t record per battle flak vs. A2A vs. operational unfortunately.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 2:40:10 PM

redrum68

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quote:

record per battle flak vs. A2A vs. operational unfortunately.

That would sure be a nice thing to add. Essentially show how much the various types of units contributed to the battle.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 2:45:44 PM

xhoel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

That would sure be a nice thing to add. Essentially show how much the various types of units contributed to the battle.

It would be, but I don't think the current system can support that change. It is a feature in WitW and in the upcoming WitE2 though :)

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 2:51:35 PM

Telemecus

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I certainly see it as normal - or at least not outside the envelope of unexceptional results.

This is a ground bombing missions - three times less effective than ground support.

The fortification levels are not displayed but certainly if they are anything significant.

You are using level bombers not Il-2s, and the 88mm are perfect for fighting level bombers.

It would be interesting to see the battle details tab. Air bombing missions are much more likely to create disruption than damage. And I expect quite a few Soviet bombers were disrupted from pressing home their attack too.

So at least to me unexceptional.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/20/2020 5:01:50 PM >

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 3:15:35 PM

redrum68

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quote:

It would be, but I don't think the current system can support that change. It is a feature in WitW and in the upcoming WitE2 though :)

Oh really? I guess maybe the engine doesn't track results per element through the various phases of battle then? I mean at least in theory it should be possible since my understanding is each element fires/targets separately through the battle phases so it would just be capturing all of that data as the battle progresses then being able to display it in the UI.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 3:19:42 PM

Bozo_the_Clown

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Also, you can change the Combat Resolution Message Level to 4. This will give you exact information what happened to these planes. Some of them just crash on the runway. It's a bit time consuming but interesting.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 3:30:00 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: countrboy

So in February 1943, 18 Russian bombers are escorted on a bombing raid by 92 fighters. The target is a panzer division and an infantry division. The results?

7 German fighters rise to the challenge and shoot down 3 fighters and 2 bombers for zero losses, despite being outnumbered more than 10 to 1. Is this normal?

Pretty Normal considering you are using so few bombers. Now I have some questions.

1. Was the unit in a fortification?
2. Were you next to the hex with a friendly unit?

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 8:48:32 PM

countrboy

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Ok, so it is normal. I guess I wasn't so concerned about the Russian losses but might have expected some German losses.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 8:53:00 PM

xhoel

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The reason for no losses could be any of these things or a combo of them: bad weather, low number of bombers, bad type of bombers (you need IL-2 for this job), low Soviet exp, enemy interception etc.

Basically to get high losses you need to mass your IL-2 in heavy attacks and give them proper fighter cover! Doing this in good weather also helps.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/20/2020 8:57:24 PM

countrboy

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Sorry, I meant German air losses. I was hoping to have shot down one or two of the defending fighters.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/21/2020 1:52:02 AM

56ajax

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Normal. You have to get the fatigue up b4 Axis starts to have losses.

And the ground unit is hiding in the woods in a blizzard.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/22/2020 4:59:16 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

Normal. You have to get the fatigue up b4 Axis starts to have losses.

Actually there is another way of shooting down Axis fighters without fatiguing them that I have found ;-). I was working on this before I took a nine-month break but have picked it back up. There is a distinct order in which things must be done to have the effect desired but it will net results without fatiguing the Germans. Otherwise, you look at drastic losses for the Soviets and no loss to maybe 1 the majority of the times for the Germans.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/23/2020 12:31:33 AM

56ajax

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And the answer is?

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/23/2020 12:49:16 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Since I have taken a game as Germany I won't divulge the secret to be used against me. I'm sure the other experts could pony up the information if they know but I haven't seen any post on it at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

And the answer is?

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/23/2020 3:47:17 AM

56ajax

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Too be honest I find that by mid 1942 the Luftwaffe is starting to take some losses, cannot cover the whole front and the Red Air force bombs at will, creating Guards squadrons every turn. Well it is something to do isnt it.

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RE: Does this seem normal? - 3/23/2020 9:43:20 PM

eskuche

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Step 1: create breakthrough
Step 2: overrun airfield