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Surprise invasion against Vichy notional

 
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Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/22/2020 8:42:41 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		CW declares war on Vichy. Vichy is surprised.
CW invades Mogador in Marocco which is empty.

Combatresolution on this attack of +11.
Roll if the notional gives up is 4. It should give up.
After that combatroll is rolled and it is a disaster. The invading force dies.

Is this correct? Should the notional not give up and no combatroll be done?
Post #: 1
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 12:58:37 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		You may need to include a Free French or US unit in the attack.

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Post #: 2
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 7:42:25 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		How come?
The rulebook states that it is valid when an allied unit to which Vichy is not hostile to is involved in the attack.
Free french or US just makes the roll easier.

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Post #: 3
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 2:44:22 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I always thought that the notional unit has the same nationality as the country controlling the hex. Mogador is controlled by Morocco, therefore the notional is not a Vichy, but a Moroccan unit.

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RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 2:51:29 PM   
FreddaH

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Well, we did get the defection-roll. It just didn't stop the combat.

The rules for determining control in creating Vichy France also quite clearly states that it is Vichy France that controls the hexes in Vichy minors.

ETA: The burning question right now is, was this a bug or are we horribly misreading the rules?


< Message edited by FreddaH -- 3/23/2020 3:00:49 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 5:00:40 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Formerly I'd agree with Centuur and say there should be no roll, but the RAW7 wording in 17.5 can work either way. It may be enlightening to look at RAW8 (a.k.a. WiF CE) to divine the designer intent since many clarifications from RAW7 were made (as well as many out and out rule changes).

RAW8 states: "If Vichy controlled land units are involved in a land combat or are overrun solely by units controlled by an Allied major power they are not hostile to, they may defect before combat."

This is much clearer.

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Post #: 6
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 5:27:16 PM   
FreddaH

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		As I said, there was a roll, but then there was a combat anyway. There was only a notional unit, so it's not a case of one unit defecting while another stays and fights.

Defection roll - a 4 - notional should defect. Combat shouldn't happen. Invaders should get a *B result.

Combat proceeds anyway.


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Post #: 7
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 7:22:15 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		It is a bug then.

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Post #: 8
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/23/2020 7:45:22 PM   
FreddaH

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you.

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Post #: 9
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/24/2020 3:52:26 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Bugs should be reported in the Tech Support sub-thread, ideally with a game save attached.

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Post #: 10
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/24/2020 7:59:16 PM   
FreddaH

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Done, thanks.

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Post #: 11
RE: Surprise invasion against Vichy notional - 3/30/2020 3:44:41 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		This is fixed in the Hot Patch I am about to upload: version 03.01.00.03.

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Post #: 12
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