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HQ and Ammo Dump Q: - 7/23/2003 7:23:34 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I'm playing a scenario with a Czech HQ tent and Ammo Dump. Even though the German units have moved to within the range of these units' weapons, rifles-12 hexes, hand grenades-1hex, I am unable to have them fire during my turn. They do fire once in a while as op fire during the Germans' turn. I can target them, but they don't fire when I hit the 'f' key or the fire icon. I don't usually use these units, so this may just be a game feature. Any help clarifying this situation?

Eric Maietta

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- 7/23/2003 10:03:15 PM   
Jags

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/2/2003
From: Athens, Greece
Status: offline 		Same problem occurs also with fortifications. Can target, but when the "f" key is pressed nothing happens.

I am not sure, but I guess it has something to do with LOS, facing and immobility.

Can somebody pls help us???

(in reply to AbsntMndedProf)
Post #: 2
- 7/23/2003 10:41:50 PM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline 		I know with fortifications you have to look at the way they are facing. You can "target" hexes outside of the (fixed) los, but you can't actually fire on any. Perhaps CP's and ammo dumps operate the same way. Select the unit and then click to get a field-of-view to see where they can shoot.

As an aside, I would be reluctant to fire my CP or especially ammo dump except as a last resort. Return fire on an ammo dump is likely to make it go "boom". Neither of these units tend to have real weapons, either - it's best to try to keep them hidden.

HTH.

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Post #: 3
- 7/23/2003 11:21:23 PM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		To make things worse, if you want to fire but can't, for example with an immobilized StuG not facing the target, that try can trigger an enemy Op-fire.
That happened to me more than once :rolleyes:. It's always good to make sure that the selected unit is able to direct it's weapons towards the enemy. :)

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Post #: 4
- 7/23/2003 11:24:08 PM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Procrustes posted:

[QUOTE]Return fire on an ammo dump is likely to make it go "boom". Neither of these units tend to have real weapons, either - it's best to try to keep them hidden.[/QUOTE]

True! However, by the time I was trying to get them to shoot back, the enemy was already in the next hex, and shooting up the ammo dump to beat the band! I was just hoping to surpress them into retreating. In one case, the enemy was in the same hex! I had an MG that could fire at them, but I worried about hitting the ammo dump at the same time. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 5
- 7/23/2003 11:41:25 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Fortifications and anything immobile that is without a turret has a 360 degree "view" of the map, but only a narrow cone of forward firing ability. This means you can see the enemy walking up to your backside, but you can't do anything about it. If you use fortifications, you need to be very careful in the deploy phase to optimize you "firing LOS." Play around with the facing and check LOS. A minor adjustment could give you many more hexes in "firing LOS."

As an aside: It is not nice to intentionally "target" an enemy unit outside of your bunker's "firing LOS" and then "fire" at it just to get it to use all of its op fire on your bunkers. You can also render a bazooka team (and others) useless without risk to yourself by doing so and it is a clear "foul" in my book if I see you doing it to me.

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Post #: 6
Dumb question - 7/24/2003 12:07:25 AM   
tmac

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/16/2003
From: Syracuse (Home of 2003 NCAA Basketball Champs) NY
Status: offline 		Rb, how come your posts always appear so much wider than everyone else's? I always have to scroll right to read what you wrote.

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Post #: 7
- 7/24/2003 12:28:27 AM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Losqualo
[B]To make things worse, if you want to fire but can't, for example with an immobilized StuG not facing the target, that try can trigger an enemy Op-fire.
That happened to me more than once :rolleyes:. It's always good to make sure that the selected unit is able to direct it's weapons towards the enemy. :) [/B][/QUOTE]


Oh, I'd forgotten about that one - it's got me more than once, too. A similar "gotcha" happens with orders - you can click on a hex outide a unit's objective - even if the unit doesn't have enough movement points to move, you will spend the orders anyways. Really ticked me off a couple of times - I've started playing with the hex grid always on when I'm using C&C.

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Post #: 8
- 7/24/2003 2:44:56 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Cause RB uses dem big words da city folk get learning on:rolleyes:

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Post #: 9
- 7/24/2003 5:18:16 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		It would seem to me that the men in an ammo dump or HQ tent should be able to fire/throw their weapons in a 360 degree range. After all, in an ammo dump, they're basically outside, and tent flaps can be lifted. :)

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 10
targeting outside of firing arcs - 7/24/2003 5:48:10 AM   
pbhawkin1

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline 		Sorry RB but I think I disagree with your assessment here of what is "foul" play :(.
I agree that you and your opponent need to agree before the game starts as to what the house rules are.
I feel that two elements come to lay in this situation:
Firstly, YOU are able to set your range or even turn weapons off and so if YOU don't want YOUR units to opfire then do these things, DON'T put a restriction on the other player how he uses his troops because you don't use them that way :)
Secondly, if I saw a bunker with some large gun swing around towards me I would also fire at it like hell. I don't know that I am outside his arc of fire until I realise that he is not firing. THEN I would happily approach (having turned down my opfire range) until I could assault it :)
I realise that the game does do some unusual/funny things in trying to model the real world, but in this case it is within your control to 'tell' your units whether to opfire or not. YES, this may leave them open to attacks from other enemy units (by not being able to opfire) BUT that is the nature of the game (and real world) in not knowing what he might throw at you or when!

I suppose that I am of the feeling that if my opponent takes 20 Konigtigers for a scenario then why not (unless we had decided before hand to play a certain way ie historical pick only). I trust that the units I pick can handle ANY situation they find. I won't cry foul even though it is unrealistic, if I win then I have the satisfaction that I beat him, if he does then I don't care as it was sooo unrealistic in the first place :D
That is the art of combined arms.
(anyone for a game of rock, scissors, paper?) :D

regards

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Post #: 11
ROFL - 7/24/2003 5:50:51 AM   
tmac

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/16/2003
From: Syracuse (Home of 2003 NCAA Basketball Champs) NY
Status: offline 		Viking, you are killing me today, thats twice now

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Post #: 12
Re: Dumb question - 7/24/2003 6:43:54 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tmac
[B]Rb, how come your posts always appear so much wider than everyone else's? I always have to scroll right to read what you wrote. [/B][/QUOTE]

Is this different from the above post of mine? I'm posting from home with this message.

Anyway, I think it has to do with the resolution settings. I have a large monitor so my resolution is set very high.

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Post #: 13
- 7/24/2003 6:57:15 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Eric, I agree with you about the tent flaps.

pb, both of your assertions are wrong:

Your Point One, low opfire doesn't prevent your unit from returning fire when that unit is the one being shot at. Opfire is used by your "unit A" is shot at by the enemy thus causing your "unit B" to Opfire. So, no matter what my opfire range is and if I'm standing directly behind your bunker, you can "fire" at my unit and cause it to return fire until its precious AT weapons are depleted, then your bunker can repeat with any other unit it can "Target." It is a game mechanics failure that even allows your bunker to "Target" the units outside of its LOS. Don't use a game mechanics failures to take advantage. That is worse than buying 20 KingTigers as your example below.

Your Point Two, have you ever seen a WWII bunker? The attacker is virtually certain when he is outside the firing arc of the bunker. It's not like shooting out of a window in your house. :rolleyes: They have very narrow and obvious firing lanes (once spotted of course).

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Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 14
OPFIRE - 7/24/2003 7:29:11 AM   
pbhawkin1

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline 		RB,
I don't quite understand what you mean by "low opfire"?

Are you saying that if you turn your range down to something that is less than the range to a enemy unit, and that enemy unit fires at you, that your unit will still return fire (opfire) even though you had changed the range of your weapons to be less than the distance between the units?? (um that was a long way os saying that I think :rolleyes: ) If so then i disagree, as that has not been my experience.
In addition, I don't think that it is correct if you TURN OFF your units weapons that it will opfire during the enemies turn?

I suppose I felt that even though the bunker can't actually fire at you it could still 'see' you (perhaps represented by the periscope/range finders rotating to your direction) and that friendly troops WOULD fire at these to 'blind' the bunker (or just for the sake of it :D as soldiers are prone to do) :D Imagine 'jumpy' soldiers in the presence of enemy fortifications firing at everything that moved or made a noise.
In fact just think of the way American soldiers acted (reacted) in Vietnam by firing ALL weapons into the jungle without anything to target at the slightest unusual noise :o

regards

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Post #: 15
- 7/29/2003 8:12:54 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]As an aside: It is not nice to intentionally "target" an enemy unit outside of your bunker's "firing LOS" and then "fire" at it just to get it to use all of its op fire on your bunkers. You can also render a bazooka team (and others) useless without risk to yourself by doing so and it is a clear "foul" in my book if I see you doing it to me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Rb, I have high regard for your sense of ethics, however, whenever I read a thread with a "foul" being called, I often think of this quote from my hero Capt. Pixel,

"A game is a game. Every game has it's little tricks and traps, whether it's checkers or moving pebbles about in scooped hole in the dirt, Stratego, Monopoly or Quake. You play the games to learn the tricks. You use the tricks to win the games.

Simple, no?

(Got any 'fives'?) "

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Post #: 16
- 7/29/2003 11:01:12 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		You guys are like Darth Vader, "Luke, come to the dark side, Luke... Come to the dark side." I'm being pulled in. I guess I'll have to start being meaner in battles. "C'est la Guerre" or whatever the French say. No quarter given, no quarter expected. Weren't those the "rules" in the Pacific Theatre? I'll have to move my mindset out of the 18th Century and into the 20th. I'll try to be mean now, I really will...

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Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 17
- 7/30/2003 9:01:13 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]You guys are like Darth Vader, "Luke, come to the dark side, Luke... Come to the dark side." I'm being pulled in. I guess I'll have to start being meaner in battles. "C'est la Guerre" or whatever the French say. No quarter given, no quarter expected. Weren't those the "rules" in the Pacific Theatre? I'll have to move my mindset out of the 18th Century and into the 20th. I'll try to be mean now, I really will... [/B][/QUOTE]

I like you the way you are. It is always interesting to get another point of view. Where would we be if we all agreed on everything?

We have a saying here (as you likely have a version of it there) "One Lawyer in a small town will starve to death. Two Lawyers in a small town will each make a good living" :eek:

Don't change Rb. You help me question my own tactics and ethics.:) :cool:

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POGO

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Post #: 18
- 7/30/2003 10:26:32 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		You two just need to get a room LOL

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Post #: 19
- 7/31/2003 10:17:32 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buzzard45
[B]Rb, I have high regard for your sense of ethics, however, whenever I read a thread with a "foul" being called, I often think of this quote from my hero Capt. Pixel,

"A game is a game. Every game has it's little tricks and traps, whether it's checkers or moving pebbles about in scooped hole in the dirt, Stratego, Monopoly or Quake. You play the games to learn the tricks. You use the tricks to win the games.

Simple, no?

(Got any 'fives'?) " [/B][/QUOTE]

Awwww, You're makin' me blush! :cool:

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Post #: 20
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