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Quick question about aircrafts - 5/3/2020 4:44:59 PM   
streetsahead1985

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/2/2020
Status: offline 		I've been playing this delightful game more or less casually over the last year, but now I'm taking the plunge into going for full on immersion/control, mostly with controlling ADs manually. It's slow going but I'm having a blast figuring stuff out, but one thing that I always over look is which aircrafts should I use as escorts? I'm about to invade Sicily and I'm using my Strategic AF to bomb cities and airfields and mostly using the FB in Tactical for interdiction missions, then I just assign any escorts that are available. I guess I'm just not totally sure what the difference is between using a squadron of Warhawks vs a squadron of Lightnings.

Thanks!
Post #: 1
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/3/2020 9:50:35 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		to some extent you have to use what you have. the good thing is you should be able to outnumber the Luftwaffe and that will help.

Key issues are range (obv), drop tanks (=>range) and then values like speed and durability/manouver. Crudely speed + manouver will get you first shot, durability the ability to survive. Now experience is probably the most important variable but that is pilots not planes.

You can use the manual upgrade/compare filter to do some useful comparisons.

Crudely I'd take the Lightnings as escorts any day, but at the start you don't have many and they shine as relatively long distance escorts, so mostly wasted on short range attacks. When you start pushing strat/15AAF and 8 AAF deeper over enemy territory you'll need to reserve the Lightnings as escorts for those missions. Which means for shorter range tactical bombing you may need to escort with the P-40s, even the P-39s.

Now for all its flaws in the FB-F role, the P-40 is pretty good as FB, so its worth a bit of juggling to sort out planes for roles. Its relatively durable and has a decent bomb load.

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/3/2020 11:15:10 PM   
streetsahead1985

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/2/2020
Status: offline 		That's extremely useful information Loki, thank you! I've decided to go all-out and start a full campaign and I'm using your AAR that was listed in the tutorial as a reference as I progress. Really excited to take my time and learn more of the mechanics.

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/4/2020 5:23:45 PM   
cfulbright

 

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline 		Two things to add to what Loki said:

1. Experience is REALLY a big factor in addition to Speed, Climb, and Maneuverability. Convert your most experienced air groups to long-range fighters like P-38's and then P-51's, and transfer them to 15th and 8th Air Forces.

2. I overassign escort FB's to the number of bombers in an AD. So if I have an AD where 100 bombers will fly on a strike, I assign 300 escorts to each strike. The AI sends roughly the number of interceptors to match the number of bombers, so if you do this, you outnumber the interceptors. I don't think it's "gamey" to have escorts outnumber bombers, it's just how you'd protect the bombers. The biggest goal of the strategic air war is to destroy the Luftwaffe, secondarily to inflict industrial damage and/or damage U-Boat and then V-Weapon production.

Cary

< Message edited by cfulbright -- 5/4/2020 5:24:01 PM >

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 5:34:31 PM   
Laits


Posts: 144
Joined: 11/1/2019
Status: offline 		Your second point is very interesting but it seems that the risk is to "under-use" your level bomber.
I mean that if you want to have a 1 to 3 ratio between tour LB ans your FB, most of the LB will be left unused. Am I wrong?

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 5:51:15 PM   
cfulbright

 

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline 		Laits,

Yes, with what I propose you'll have unused LB's.

The question is what is your priority, and how that priority shifts over the course of a campaign. For me as an Allied player in the 1943 campaign, the top priority for the first six months is to destroy the Luftwaffe FB force, and only secondarily to damage German factories. So the overassign of FB's to LB's on strategic missions lets me achieve that. The Allies, and in particular the US, can win an attrition campaign against the Luftwaffe.

Then come 1944 when I've seriously weakened the Luftwaffe fighter force, I can put much more of the LB's to work.

The other point I'll make is that I concentrate Fighter Command in Southeast England and have them do Area=4 size Air Superiority AD's over Holland and Belgium every day, allocating 1/2 of the available Fighter Command FB's per day. That allows them to maintain morale while also being up every day of the week. If you also allocate your strategic missions so some flight 2/4/6 days, and the others 3/5/7, the Luftwaffe gets weakened every day, while the Allies only fly half the days or less.

Cary

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 9:13:31 PM   
fritzfarlig


Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		do I a bad observation or its true the AI send all what they have on the first day and later we only see some small intercepts from germans fighters

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 9:39:03 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		what happens is the AI uses auto-intercept on the defense and often burns up a lot of air miles. So by the D3 a lot of their fighters are out of miles and grounded.

@Cary

This is not right or wrong, but I'd say the focus of the bombing campaign in 1943 is VP accumulation and tank+truck production squeezes. If you shoot down German fighters all well and good. So while I can see the value of your model if your goal is to win against interceptors I guess I take the view that I can keep LB losses down by only bombing 2 days a week but make sure that my raids are bomber heavy?

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 10:31:41 PM   
fritzfarlig


Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I will do a test - I make 2 AD SB on the same city - 1. AD day 1 and 2, I send a small force very few 2-3 bombers bad quality
day 3 I send my main attack on the second AD 75 bombers in a strike, if the luftwaffe burns all airmiles on day 1 and 2, I have done a very gamey thing

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 10:41:14 PM   
cfulbright

 

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline 		If you only send 2-3 bombers, the AI should only send 2-4 interceptors, so it shouldn't burn it's air miles.

I don't think it's gamey for the Allies to use a deliberate attrition strategy against the Luftwaffe. Flying every day, flying day and night, using Fighter Command as barrier CAP, this was much of the essence of the Combined Bomber Offensive.

Cary

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Post #: 10
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 11:54:46 PM   
fritzfarlig


Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I could´t cheat luftwaffe



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fritzfarlig -- 5/18/2020 11:56:15 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/18/2020 11:59:07 PM   
fritzfarlig


Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		sadly it was bad weather this week





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Post #: 12
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/19/2020 12:19:31 AM   
cfulbright

 

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline 		It looks like you shot down 29 LW FB's for a loss of 4 US FB's.

Cary

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Post #: 13
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/19/2020 7:45:29 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

...

I don't think it's gamey for the Allies to use a deliberate attrition strategy against the Luftwaffe. Flying every day, flying day and night, using Fighter Command as barrier CAP, this was much of the essence of the Combined Bomber Offensive.

Cary


I fully agree, its not gamey, its a perfectly valid strategy well based on the historical goals of the Allies in 1943.

Just I personally tend to the opposite of your framing. Yours is kill the Luftwaffe in 1943 so you have operational freedom in 1944 (I realise I vastly over-simplify here), mine is bomb stuff in 1943 and deal with the Luftwaffe in 1944.

I don't think either is right or wrong or definitive .

quote:

ORIGINAL: fritzfarlig

I will do a test - I make 2 AD SB on the same city - 1. AD day 1 and 2, I send a small force very few 2-3 bombers bad quality
day 3 I send my main attack on the second AD 75 bombers in a strike, if the luftwaffe burns all airmiles on day 1 and 2, I have done a very gamey thing



As Cary says, the AI will match off to your effort - it uses auto intercept most of the time. So you need to start with something that will encourage it to come and play (ie you take losses). Its not gamey, as you are not encouraging the AI to fly for nothing, it will only fly when you offer it something to engage with

< Message edited by loki100 -- 5/19/2020 7:47:50 AM >

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RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/19/2020 9:30:35 AM   
fritzfarlig


Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Attrition or engaging the German Air Force so that bombers get an easier route is not gamey. what i was trying was if it was able to cheat the ai, but it was only positive that this couldn't be done, what annoyed me a bit was when I made a normal bombing strike with 75 bombers per turn, I don't think ai did the intelligent way when it fired everything in the first few days, I also do not normally play war against the computer only against human opponent it is the whole essence of war games for me, a human who can surprise me in a war game not a computer that makes it predictable every time

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Post #: 15
RE: Quick question about aircrafts - 5/22/2020 9:26:09 AM   
Laits


Posts: 144
Joined: 11/1/2019
Status: offline
quote:

I fully agree, its not gamey, its a perfectly valid strategy well based on the historical goals of the Allies in 1943.

Just I personally tend to the opposite of your framing. Yours is kill the Luftwaffe in 1943 so you have operational freedom in 1944 (I realise I vastly over-simplify here), mine is bomb stuff in 1943 and deal with the Luftwaffe in 1944.

I don't think either is right or wrong or definitive .


I think you're right, too.
It really depends on the axis player air strategy. For example some of them try to preserve their bombers for the DDAY, others (over)use them in Italy and some prefer to send them in the east.

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