Not only. A normal person is going to look at the differences in preview points and scratch their head. Under different circumstances, preview points rise along route when they block off a split.
It's different when mixing prioritized pull points, however.
< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/3/2020 2:45:26 PM >
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Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!
*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.
LIS is indeed complicated business. That's why the Cult of LIS exists. Devote yourself fully to this great mystical power and true wisdom shall surly follow suit!
On another note. This new pull system seems to have a lot more potential compared with the old archaic push one. Looking forward to future improvements!
Wanted to make two points concerning the Pull Points.
First the system has not been simplified, just an extra tool to manage it has been added to the toolbox. If you want you can play the game exactly the same as before the Pull Points were added by just not using this Pull Points "tool”.
Secondly I gave it a lot of thought and I concluded (for now) the Traffic Signs system and the Pull Points should be interconnected/mixable and NOT be presented as two separate systems. This will lead to less confusion and Players can always choose to use only one or only the other or choose to mix them. I just feel it is more coherent like this.
Best wishes, Vic
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Thanks for the update. The logistical points log already makes a lot more sense to me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Vic Secondly I gave it a lot of thought and I concluded (for now) the Traffic Signs system and the Pull Points should be interconnected/mixable and NOT be presented as two separate systems. This will lead to less confusion and Players can always choose to use only one or only the other or choose to mix them. I just feel it is more coherent like this.
If I have a mine to the east, which requires 100 logistics points, and I want all the leftover logistics to travel to the road north, because I want them for strategic moving, what do I do? There's no traffic sign that only prevents the leftover logistics from traveling east, is there? I guess should I just be putting custom pull points on the tile that heads north?
< Message edited by Destragon -- 7/3/2020 5:19:19 PM >
I think I just found a little thing that could be improved. The pull system is intelligent enough to realise that assets don't use the logistics points that they require, which means, when you have 2 mines in a line, which both need 100 logistics points, it will send only 100 logistics points, because it knows that that's enough to satisfy both, which is great.
But I just noticed this situation with 3 mines and a fork in the road. Because there is a fork and two mines are on different paths, the pull system should actually be requesting 200 points here, but instead it only sends out 100.
I think either beta2 or beta3 might've broken some sanity checks somewhere. This is a Siwa-class that had 70 million pop in the colonization phase.
I had values on one planet going from: 20 Million to 6684 Million (yes, 6.7 Billion!) I took that later one for a spin. I actually saw several entries in the "Colonisation History" I enver saw before: - becomming a major player in scientific research - relay station for Liquid Energy producers - becomming the Quadrant Capital!
Guys have the animals (alien lifeforms) been severely nerfed?
Or is this just coincidence and I have my first planet where 3 different lifeforms are trivial.
Most notable is that their attack value is now so much lower than their defense value. Never had them this easy, not by a long margin. (For example I have a bipedal dinosaur-looking 5m large monster having an attack of 6 for both soft and hard.)
What's your experience with life in 1.04b3?
@zgrssd: I've had those on less populous planets. I've even seen stuff out-competing the core worlds. But yesterday or the day before I also saw some entries I never saw before, really cool :)
< Message edited by GodwinW -- 7/3/2020 8:51:47 PM >
Guess the "simple" change to a pull system, that was so freely advocated, is not so simple in the details.
As ever, extraordinary claims, demand extraordinary proof.
Okay. Who actually said it will be "simple"? Please with quotes. I hate arguing against peoples imagination.
It's also difficult to argue when the rules of the English language are not mutually agreed!
In context, the air quotes around 'simple' mean exactly the opposite of a direct quote. They mean that the attitude of several posts were that a pull system could be implemented without difficulty... easy peasy!
I appreciate the attempt to automate some of the tedious busywork out of logistics with the pull system. However, I don't think the change in the latest beta that makes traffic signs block a proportion of pulls works well. If I put a traffic sign on a dead-end road because I'm never going to strat-move through it so any excess logistics going there is just wasted, the traffic sign now deducts from any pulls as well and ensures that any actually needed logistics doesn't make it through either. That means that in order to concentrate the logistics points where they're useful, I still need to manually fiddle with the traffic sign for that road any time its needed logistics throughput changes. That's just pointless micromanagement, it would be much better if the traffic sign didn't chop up pulls.
Guys have the animals (alien lifeforms) been severely nerfed?
Or is this just coincidence and I have my first planet where 3 different lifeforms are trivial.
Most notable is that their attack value is now so much lower than their defense value. Never had them this easy, not by a long margin. (For example I have a bipedal dinosaur-looking 5m large monster having an attack of 6 for both soft and hard.)
Was able to test the new logistics some more and I'm liking it a lot so far. Another thing I really love about this change is that it actually lets you preview the amount of required logistics your individual fronts demand on the next turn. That was something I really wanted, too. You used to have to manually calculate it by going through your units or just guess it if you're lazy.
I'm still not really a fan of the branching penalty though. It incentivises you to place down a lot of "block all" stop signs to turn off secondary roads and sort of counter-acts the pull system because of that.
I'm really liking where the Logistics System changes are going. I haven't tested it much yet but I don't like that the traffic system blocks the pull points.
On the traffic system, it would be great to have a few options... [ ] Allow Max Pull Points (which would allow blocks but let through 100% of the logistics needed through the Pull system)
Have two indicator lights above each button on the traffic blockages. The left light is for roads and the right light is for rail. Left-clicking the button would toggle the road only. Right-clicking would toggle the rail only. To activate both you would both left and right-click on a button. I think this would be good because I feel the majority of the time you don't want to be really blocking the rail system too much.
< Message edited by DasTactic -- 7/5/2020 10:57:10 PM >
Having played more with the new system, I have to strongly agree with DasTactic here, nice videos btw.
I certainly like the overall direction, but also very much so dislike the traffic system blocking pull requests. I'd actually say, that's the main annoyance with the entire Logistic System for me right now.
An option, like DasTactic proposes, should easily fix that problem and would be a great addition.
_____________________________
"Pull and obtain wisdom. Push and invite ruin." ― Cult of LIS
I'm really liking where the Logistics System changes are going. I haven't tested it much yet but I don't like that the traffic system blocks the pull points.
On the traffic system, it would be great to have a few options... [ ] Allow Max Pull Points (which would allow blocks but let through 100% of the logistics needed through the Pull system)
Have two indicator lights above each button on the traffic blockages. The left light is for roads and the right light is for rail. Left-clicking the button would toggle the road only. Right-clicking would toggle the rail only. To activate both you would both left and right-click on a button. I think this would be good because I feel the majority of the time you don't want to be really blocking the rail system too much.
Yeh having the traffic lights for road/rail separately really needed (pitched it already multiple times to vic:)). NOw the only way is to make them go to separate hexes from the asset/city itself and again separate them for each junction...
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I don't want a pull system for my logistics otherwise I'll just play other boring games that have this system. The original out of the box logistics system in Shadow Empires is an enigma but once you get used to how it works it is so refreshing compared to other games.
I really hope that there is an option to keep this original logistics system in the game. I don't want a pull system. Don't spoil my fun for this game please. I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Forgive me my old friend...but I must use all my experience, to get home.
I don't want a pull system for my logistics otherwise I'll just play other boring games that have this system. The original out of the box logistics system in Shadow Empires is an enigma but once you get used to how it works it is so refreshing compared to other games.
I really hope that there is an option to keep this original logistics system in the game. I don't want a pull system. Don't spoil my fun for this game please. I'm sure I'm not alone.
Just turn it off for your Empire.
I still have no idea why you find "making a maze of traffic sign" a engaging mechanic, but do not expect a lot of people willing to play without it.
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