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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last update 23 nov!)

 
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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/24/2020 6:56:06 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Here is the benchmark file from the beta19 I just uploaded.

http://www.vrdesigns.net/openbeta/analytics_air.pdf

I think its getting very close to how I intended it to be.

Sharing the formula's... we'll see about that. Its more like code than formula's in reality.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 601
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta18 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/24/2020 7:16:07 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Thanks for sharing again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
Sharing the formula's... we'll see about that. Its more like code than formula's in reality.

Even if it's egytian hyroglifics, it's better than having to guess.

I was wondering for example about how wings affect the dogfighting score. Increasing the size of wings will make the plane better at turning, but also less speedy. So the player kinda has to know if the turning or the speed is the more important factor when desgning an interceptor.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 602
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/25/2020 4:03:23 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		And beta20 posted!

Thanks once more to everybody who submitted bugs and :) also those who tested the beta but did not find any.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

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(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 603
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/25/2020 4:52:56 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'm having trouble trying to figure out what planetary parameters raise or lower air pressure to try and keep the air pressure greater than the gravity for aircraft. Is there something in the early planet generation that we should look at to gauge what the pressure might be? When I saw the extremely high air pressures in the analytics_air.pdf I was thinking I must be missing something.

As a suggestion, perhaps add another History setting to increase the air pressure on a planet.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 604
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/25/2020 5:39:27 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DasTactic

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what planetary parameters raise or lower air pressure to try and keep the air pressure greater than the gravity for aircraft. Is there something in the early planet generation that we should look at to gauge what the pressure might be? When I saw the extremely high air pressures in the analytics_air.pdf I was thinking I must be missing something.

I think it's just gravity? But I guess maybe spin could have an effect, too.
I already said it, but my main issue with trying to generate a planet with thick atmosphere is that the screen that generates the atmosphere doesn't actually tell you how many mbar of pressure there are. Only the screen after that one tells you, but if you're not happy with the number there, you have to start the whole planet generation from scratch.

quote:


As a suggestion, perhaps add another History setting to increase the air pressure on a planet.

I think straight up letting you change a parameter of the planet with the history classes doesn't sound very fitting, but I could maybe see something like "during colonisation, the settlers have terraformed the planet to have an earth-like atomsphere and environment".

< Message edited by Destragon -- 11/25/2020 5:40:13 PM >

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 605
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/25/2020 8:29:56 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:


I think it's just gravity? But I guess maybe spin could have an effect, too.
I already said it, but my main issue with trying to generate a planet with thick atmosphere is that the screen that generates the atmosphere doesn't actually tell you how many mbar of pressure there are. Only the screen after that one tells you, but if you're not happy with the number there, you have to start the whole planet generation from scratch.

I agree that this is now an important consideration. I did randomly generate a planet of .38g and 770mbar today on the livestream. But would be nice to know why.

quote:


I think straight up letting you change a parameter of the planet with the history classes doesn't sound very fitting, but I could maybe see something like "during colonisation, the settlers have terraformed the planet to have an earth-like atomsphere and environment".

The animal history is from earlier than colonisation so I thought it would still work by placing it in there.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 606
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/25/2020 9:26:58 PM   
Clux


Posts: 411
Joined: 9/16/2018
From: Mexico
Status: offline 		Adding the Independent OOBs of AT guns and FLAK was really appreciated, but could also the RPGs receive some love? I don't see the reason of why their firepower shouldn't be optimized due Small Arms or Payload Optimization.

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 607
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 12:33:45 AM   
washtana

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/2/2017
Status: offline 		Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).




(in reply to Clux)
Post #: 608
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 3:30:20 AM   
Clux


Posts: 411
Joined: 9/16/2018
From: Mexico
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: washtana

Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).



Its not normal to have cities exactly next to each other, normally they are at least 5 hexes away, I would suggest to send the save to Vic so he can check it out

(in reply to washtana)
Post #: 609
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 12:08:02 PM   
washtana

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/2/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Clux


quote:

ORIGINAL: washtana

Not sure if this is normal or an issue. Started a new game with beta 20 and a minor city is next to my city (they are touching). Also, another minor is 4 hexes away and another is 6 (within 10 hexes they're 4 cities including mine).



Its not normal to have cities exactly next to each other, normally they are at least 5 hexes away, I would suggest to send the save to Vic so he can check it out


Thanks, sent Vic the saved game.

(in reply to Clux)
Post #: 610
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 12:48:59 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Wow. I am now getting a slow-down in turn processing like never before. This is new to v19/20.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to washtana)
Post #: 611
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 1:29:55 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		I forgot! I DID tick the new allow AI more time button. It makes a HUGE difference in turn time. )I am around turn 200).

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 612
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 4:05:12 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		No new build today. Very probably tomorrow v106-beta1. Trying to see if I can still squeeze in addressing the AI road spaghetti complaints.

best,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 613
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.05-beta20 AIR FORCES (last updat... - 11/26/2020 6:48:57 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Hey Vic, I may have asked this already, but is there any way for testers to access debugging commands or cheats to help with testing? I mean, it could help with testing the stuff that's late in the tech tree, which most people probably haven't really checked yet.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 614
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/26/2020 8:21:12 PM   
Gywox

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/23/2020
Status: offline 		I do not seem to get any resources back when I scrap aircraft in city with SHQ. Playing beta 20. Tested with the ones you get from the beginning.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 615
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 9:50:17 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		They get returned to Zone if scrapped from Unit, they return to SHQ inv if scrapped from Unit. Just double checked. It does work.

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(in reply to Gywox)
Post #: 616
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 12:19:27 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Vic, I have a random question about the Steam release.
Will you make use of Steam's opt in beta function for the beta updates in the future, so that we can get these updates automatically without having to manually drag and drop them into the game directory, or will you keep the beta versions separate from steam? Not sure if you have experience with this feature. If you're afraid of too many people opting into the beta and complaining about bugs, you can attach a simple password to it like "there will be bugs" as a reminder.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 617
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 12:38:01 PM   
Gywox

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/23/2020
Status: offline 		I misunderstood the following, they seem to end up in the zone inventory and not in the SHQ inventory on the left.

Commander of 1st SHQ:
We scrapped 1 Thunderbird in 1 Units.
We recuperated: 22 Fuel, 9 Ammo, 1 Food, 24 Metal and 2 Machines
>>>"Note that there Items are given to Zone inventory unless the Troops scrapped were in a SHQ."<<<
1 Population has been returned to Zone(s).

Do not really know what you intended with one population back, you only get back the pilot, not the ground crew?
I think you need 300 in manpower (crew) for 30 fighters (a brigade unit).

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 618
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 1:03:45 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

Posts: 426
Joined: 6/7/2020
Status: offline 		Internally, the game seems to count population units consisting of 100 people each. For display purposes it just adds two zeros after the number of population units to show the "real" amount of population. In this case you probably got 100 population back, it just left out the zeros.

(in reply to Gywox)
Post #: 619
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 3:44:10 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Vic, I have a random question about the Steam release.
Will you make use of Steam's opt in beta function for the beta updates in the future, so that we can get these updates automatically without having to manually drag and drop them into the game directory, or will you keep the beta versions separate from steam? Not sure if you have experience with this feature. If you're afraid of too many people opting into the beta and complaining about bugs, you can attach a simple password to it like "there will be bugs" as a reminder.


Matrix will stay the prefered place for beta's. But i'll probably move some of them over to Steam as well after initial testing done here OR serious bug that needs ASAP fixing.


_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 620
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 3:48:34 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Posted the next beta. Already named v106-beta1 as it is probably more ahead than the upcoming v106 official release.

It should fix the worst road spaghetti the AI can create.

Best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 621
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 4:43:12 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Just wanted to say I played a game (recording for YouTube for the Steam release) hard Nemesis on a small planet and the AI was brutally good. :) Super impressed with what it did.

It switched attacks that weren't working for it. It flanked like a demon going through Minors to get behind my forces. It sacrificed some units to cut supplies off. And it pulsed its attacks to allow itself time to build up forces.

I was just shaking my head thinking 'Wow!'.

Great work Vic. :)

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 622
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/27/2020 10:22:21 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Here's an example of the AI road building changes from 1.06:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/782023305284419584/roads_before.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/504754524079259678/782023338939383829/roads_after.jpg

Seems to be working.

Edit:
On another topic, it looks to me like weight increases hitpoints on aircraft, is that right?
This is actually kinda funny-weird, because this means my bomber helicopter has more health than my rocket helicopter, because of more weight. It's using its explosives as extra armor.



< Message edited by Destragon -- 11/28/2020 12:03:12 AM >

(in reply to DasTactic)
Post #: 623
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 7:32:57 AM   
Nemesison

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline 		Mmmm...

I don't find it too strange...

In air combat usually more bulk translates into less chances to hit something vital.

I guess it would come down to what the extra bulk is composed of?

Empty weight, extra armor, redundant systems...

< Message edited by Nemesison -- 11/28/2020 7:34:36 AM >

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 624
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 8:39:12 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Bump. Small patch focussed on improving AI speed with Slow AI = OFF

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(in reply to Nemesison)
Post #: 625
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 10:15:51 AM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemesison

Mmmm...

I don't find it too strange...

In air combat usually more bulk translates into less chances to hit something vital.

I guess it would come down to what the extra bulk is composed of?

Empty weight, extra armor, redundant systems...

The extra weight in this case is a 3 ton heavy bomb load and maybe a couple more tons of fuel tank.

(in reply to Nemesison)
Post #: 626
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 1:14:05 PM   
Nemesison

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2020
Status: offline 		Yeah, but in Shadow Empire when you put a bomb hatch on a vehicle it also adds cargo space, so... Empty Weight?

Also, thinking at WW2, you don't really hear of bombs detonating on planes during air combat

< Message edited by Nemesison -- 11/28/2020 1:15:48 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 627
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 6:39:02 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Edit:
On another topic, it looks to me like weight increases hitpoints on aircraft, is that right?
This is actually kinda funny-weird, because this means my bomber helicopter has more health than my rocket helicopter, because of more weight. It's using its explosives as extra armor.




There can be random effect of upto 50 hitpoints.

The basis for HP calcs is the SIZE model variable by the way.

best,
Vic


_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 628
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 6:46:05 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline 		Yeah, I know about the size influencing the hitpoints, but both of those helicopters have the same size.
The first version is 13k kg and the second version is 7.5k kg, so I assumed the hitpoints are based on that.
Is it not based on the weight and the difference is just random here?

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 629
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta10 (last update 23 june!) - 11/28/2020 7:14:11 PM   
Daza99

 

Posts: 285
Joined: 8/1/2017
Status: offline 		Will there in future be special GR Air force units that the player sometimes acquired or finds? or is this already implemented? Can the Ai get these too (question includes currently with other types of units)

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 630
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