RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Shadow Empire MATRIX VERSION Open Beta >> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!)

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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 3/26/2021 10:56:45 AM

Haplo

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/9/2014
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Yep, sorry, my mistake. Thank you.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 811

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 3/26/2021 6:34:34 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Haplo

Yep, sorry, my mistake. Thank you.

No problem here.

As I said under tech support, even we longtime players still fall for that part in the rare cases we use it.

(in reply to Haplo)

Post #: 812

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 2:26:05 PM

zuekamo

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/21/2020
Status: offline

quote:

-Increased the movement cost for regular artillery and anti-tank gun models (without motorization), Militia version is still foot since they are very light and have improvised engines or traction systems *

the 60 mm models will have the same penalty than the 300 mm models?

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 813

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 2:45:09 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

-Increased the movement cost for regular artillery and anti-tank gun models (without motorization), Militia version is still foot since they are very light and have improvised engines or traction systems *

the 60 mm models will have the same penalty than the 300 mm models?

The question does not seems sensible.
Militia units and weapon callibre are not related.

(in reply to zuekamo)

Post #: 814

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 4:51:56 PM

zuekamo

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Joined: 6/21/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

-Increased the movement cost for regular artillery and anti-tank gun models (without motorization), Militia version is still foot since they are very light and have improvised engines or traction systems *

the 60 mm models will have the same penalty than the 300 mm models?

The question does not seems sensible.
Militia units and weapon callibre are not related.

Not talking about militias, I'm talking about a brigade with guns of 25mm, having the same movemente penalties than a brigade with 300mm guns.

both have the artillery type of movement.

< Message edited by zuekamo -- 4/11/2021 4:56:45 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 815

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 4:58:44 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

-Increased the movement cost for regular artillery and anti-tank gun models (without motorization), Militia version is still foot since they are very light and have improvised engines or traction systems *

the 60 mm models will have the same penalty than the 300 mm models?

The question does not seems sensible.
Militia units and weapon callibre are not related.

Not talking about militias, I'm talking about a brigade with guns of 25mm, having the same movemente penalties than a brigade with 300mm guns.

both have the artillery type of movement.

Currently they do. But generally tehre is no point going for small artillery to begin with. So I fail to see why you would even try to go 25mm Artillery.

(in reply to zuekamo)

Post #: 816

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 5:39:26 PM

zuekamo

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/21/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Currently they do. But generally tehre is no point going for small artillery to begin with. So I fail to see why you would even try to go 25mm Artillery.

to move it quickly in mountains, hills, like in real life.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 817

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 6:24:30 PM

Uemon

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/11/2020
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Also if it has no use and exists as an option in game, thats sort of a design flaw that should probably be remedied by giving it some purpose.

(in reply to zuekamo)

Post #: 818

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/11/2021 7:17:03 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Currently they do. But generally tehre is no point going for small artillery to begin with. So I fail to see why you would even try to go 25mm Artillery.

to move it quickly in mountains, hills, like in real life.

25mm is so small, I think there are bigger mortars.
Mortars would propably be part of "Infantry" Subunits.

Someone else made a suggestion for (in effect) Field Guns, wich I think would work well with a Artillery rework I have propossed:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4997865

(in reply to zuekamo)

Post #: 819

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/12/2021 12:05:58 AM

Axelius

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/9/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuekamo

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Currently they do. But generally tehre is no point going for small artillery to begin with. So I fail to see why you would even try to go 25mm Artillery.

to move it quickly in mountains, hills, like in real life.

25mm is so small, I think there are bigger mortars.
Mortars would propably be part of "Infantry" Subunits.

Someone else made a suggestion for (in effect) Field Guns, wich I think would work well with a Artillery rework I have propossed

It's not only that there are larger mortars, but pretty much every mortar made is larger. Comparing mortars to field guns is a bit like comparing apples to oranges though, but the case is pretty much the same for field artillery, which pretty much never goes below 37mm (although even those guns were more direct fire weapons and more predecessors to AT guns than what we would consider artillery), and is seldom under 50mm. By the time you're going below 50mm you're really reducing internal volume below what is necessary to get a satisfactory explosion once it lands on the other end.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 820

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/12/2021 3:36:16 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
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bump! posted open beta version .06.
nothing major, but quite a few bug and glitch fixes.

making progress with the S&S editor but that will come for the v1.09.x open beta's.

hoping to soon upgrade the main version.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to aperfecturkel)

Post #: 821

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/12/2021 4:20:32 PM

redrum68

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Joined: 11/26/2017
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@Vic - Great to see the logistic asset worker updates! But I think you missed updating the worker construction costs to align with the new worker production costs. For example, truck station level 1 shows 1000 worker construction costs but 2000 worker production costs where I think pretty much all other assets those are the same.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 822

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/22/2021 5:59:54 AM

gravmania

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Joined: 4/2/2021
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It looks like all the foot formations with artillery are now useless due to very low movement.
I tried the siege infantry, got one to two hexes of movement. I ended up downgrading them to regular infantry.

Maybe the weight of the artillery should be taken into account in the movement penalty?

(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 823

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/29/2021 11:48:44 AM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

@Vic - Great to see the logistic asset worker updates! But I think you missed updating the worker construction costs to align with the new worker production costs. For example, truck station level 1 shows 1000 worker construction costs but 2000 worker production costs where I think pretty much all other assets those are the same.

agreed! thanks for spotting

_____________________________

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(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 824

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/29/2021 11:49:34 AM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gravmania

It looks like all the foot formations with artillery are now useless due to very low movement.
I tried the siege infantry, got one to two hexes of movement. I ended up downgrading them to regular infantry.

Maybe the weight of the artillery should be taken into account in the movement penalty?

they are still interesting for defense or strategic transfer AND they also exist in their mot. and mech. variants. (and those latter ones now actually do serve a purpose)

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to gravmania)

Post #: 825

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 4/30/2021 5:12:37 PM

Nagabaron

Posts: 19
Joined: 1/16/2021
Status: offline

Hey Vic, you said the S&S editor will do other things too, any idea yet what those might be? Looking forward to you opening up the game more.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 826

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/4/2021 4:15:33 PM

Mazth

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/28/2021
Status: offline

Okay I am confused here, does v1.09 contain all the beta v1.08.06 stuff or are they still 'forked'? From the documentation it looks like v1.09 has implementation up to v1.08.01 (of the open beta?) and refers to itself as open BETA?

(in reply to aperfecturkel)

Post #: 827

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/4/2021 6:07:08 PM

Clux

Posts: 411
Joined: 9/16/2018
From: Mexico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mazth

Okay I am confused here, does v1.09 contain all the beta v1.08.06 stuff or are they still 'forked'? From the documentation it looks like v1.09 has implementation up to v1.08.01 (of the open beta?) and refers to itself as open BETA?

Major updates (In this case 1.09) ALWAYS includes all the new content/bug fixes/changes from the betas before it, so, 1.09 has all the changes than happened in every 1.08 beta.u

_____________________________

Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!

(in reply to Mazth)

Post #: 828

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/4/2021 6:25:43 PM

Mazth

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/28/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mazth

(...)

Major updates (In this case 1.09) ALWAYS includes all the new content/bug fixes/changes from the betas before it, so, 1.09 has all the changes than happened in every 1.08 beta.u

Thanks for confirming! The change log was unclear in this regard.

(in reply to Clux)

Post #: 829

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/6/2021 12:30:03 AM

Bebop Cola

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

bump! posted open beta version .06.
nothing major, but quite a few bug and glitch fixes.

making progress with the S&S editor but that will come for the v1.09.x open beta's.

hoping to soon upgrade the main version.

best wishes,
Vic

What exactly will the S&S editor allow one to do? Will it be a full editor to put together a custom game scenario (i.e. allowing you to set up a planet with specific parameters, each major and minor, set their start conditions like techs, resources, and leaders), or is it something more like a tool to create custom stratagem cards and such?

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 830

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 11:30:25 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

bump!

Finally a new open beta!

Sorry for the long delay but getting the S&S editor was rather time consuming.

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to aperfecturkel)

Post #: 831

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 12:07:56 PM

Soar_Slitherine

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Joined: 6/7/2020
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Very interesting, I am going through the documentation now. One error: The "Most important to get started" chapter merely says "Load the test.seevlib into" and then ends abruptly. There seems to be something missing there.

EDIT: I am assuming it is intended to tell people to load test.se1evlib in the S&S Editor, which can be accessed through the game's main menu.

< Message edited by Soar_Slitherine -- 5/10/2021 12:24:05 PM >

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 832

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 5:05:29 PM

zgrssd

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Usually the first programm you ever write in any Programking language is "Hello World". This makes sure you know how to output values, which is the single most important step for debugging.

So, what would be the minimum amount of setup neededed to jsut output "Hello World"?
What about reading and priting out a important game variable like difficulty?

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

Post #: 833

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 5:34:13 PM

Vic

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I added "hello world" like entries in all the tables you can populate in the Simple Editor. Load the "test.se1evlib" in the S&S editor to take a look at the code. And then enable 'test' Mod Library in the Mod Library Picker and fire up a game to see the "output".

best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 834

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 5:38:31 PM

zgrssd

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Okay, what I can gather thus far:
- "Decisions" belong into one of the story tables.
- There are 4 "Formats" for decisions, each with their own table(s):
-- Delta
-- Epsilon, where the text and decisions are split over two tables. Those seem to be the ones giving you a Summary of the effect, especially regarding skill rolls
-- Ferdinand
-- Gustav
- All Decisions have exactly 4 Options, it seems. Pretty sure those Options should have be moved into their own "Decision_Options" table to resolve the 1:N relationship properly. Instead we have massive field duplication.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 835

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 6:10:08 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I added "hello world" like entries in all the tables you can populate in the Simple Editor. Load the "test.se1evlib" in the S&S editor to take a look at the code. And then enable 'test' Mod Library in the Mod Library Picker and fire up a game to see the "output".

best wishes,
Vic

The result is not the same as a teaching on the steps it took to get there.
This is a image of a surgical suture.
This is not the same as the actuall explanation on how to make a medical suture.

The first things Hello World examples teach, is how to start (sometimes install!) the compiler. What project preset to use. What to put in as values for all the topics (like Namespaces) that come later.
The Sourcecode to copy and paste is a minor part of the Hello World code overall :)

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 836

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 6:25:15 PM

zgrssd

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Giving us examples of how the 4 Decision types differ (like with a Screenshoot) would propably be helpfull. Take the example decision in 3.6.6 of the Handbook, which kind is that?

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Post #: 837

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 7:06:21 PM

zgrssd

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I am guessing that you are using the "Epsilon" Format for anything involving a Skill Roll or Randomisation, so you can account for the Roll results.
For example the Bribe them/Send in the Troops/Talk them down Unrest events.

Example Modfile:
"Due to outrage over our administration confescating some Twiddles I am under siege in my own mansion by [demonstrators|enraged mobs|diseased throngs]."

Option 1:
"For crying out loud! Restore order!"
Is a 20 Fist Option
I think there is a guaranteed increase of Unrest, with a 50% chance to increase fear additionally.

Option 2:
"Why cause more unrest? Lets try to be subtle and talk."
10 Mind and 10 Heart option
Oratory Skill roll vs 100 I think.
You always get the result of the skill check.
But the 2nd half depends on if you made or failed the skill roll vs 100, I think?

But I am honestly not sure why you even have the other Options in the first place?
Epsilon Format seems by far the best option. It allows Randomisation, Skillchecks - and it even allows a 1:N relationship between options and results, meaning one option can have multiple results.
Are the other ones meerely legacy?
Do they have additional fields/options I am not seeing right away?
Are they faster to execute/less verbose to write?

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 5/10/2021 7:09:26 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 838

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/10/2021 11:27:49 PM

Akrakorn

Posts: 100
Joined: 10/19/2020
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Hey Vic! Thank you so much for the S&S! The documentation needs a tiny bit of proof reading but is very helpful, and the debugger even more so! I have a question as I am tinkering with the system.

I'm trying to figure out what the postures change exactly and in which way I could modify that, for example I wanted to modify the FIELD TRAINING posture to increase XP growth and XP limit. I see that the logic for FIELD TRAINING is exe(346,46,ID) which according to the documentation clears the posture of the unit first, but the following exe(203, HISID, 36, 100,0), etc are not mentioned anywhere (or at least I don't see it in the docs). Is that listed anywhere? Again, thank you a lot for exposing this to modding!

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 839

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 5/11/2021 4:44:44 PM

Pymous

Posts: 133
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline

Very excited by this S&S Editor Vic! Thank you! :D
(Maybe A "S&S Editor" Subforum would be usefull to gather all questions, futur mods, ect.. ?)

(in reply to Akrakorn)

Post #: 840

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