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A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:21:01 PM   
gatsby

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I have rarely posted in any forum; game or otherwise and I have been on the net(if you could call it that) since 1987. I go way back in games even before the net LOL.

I actually bought Tactics 2 and Blitzkrieg and really never stopped. ASL, Star Fleet Battles, World in Flames etc.I was a beta tester for the Zundel GAP for ASL and an early beta tester for World in Flames when Chris Marianici was coding it. I think I spelled his name wrong, it was along time ago. I didn't list these so you would all think wow what a guy and he must be really ****ing old but so that you would know that I have had some experience in this genre and that I usually don't bother posting. After surviving listservs about ASL I got a form of PTSD from debating the fine points of subsequent fire in some obscure ASL module.

But usually I open a game and sometimes that's it. I love the smell of a new game. Seriously. Just the smell of the print on the manual is sometimes the best I can get out of a game. Once i have figured it out, how it plays, what systems its using I rarely stay with it. Kind of like dating LOL...Football manager is an exception and maybe Hearts of Iron Civilization Europa Universalsis Crusader Kings BTW I don't really mention the whole game thing when dating...LOL It kinda ruins the whole arty playwright actor guy personna...

But this game stands out even amid the august company I listed and I am posting this because anybody who puts out a game like this deserves to be praised and rewarded. I have played the decisive campaign series and fooled around and admired ATG but it didn't one more turn me.So I was not prepared for a game like this. As my 20 year old son said: " This is the one we've been dreaming about...

I have watched all 19 episodes of Das Tactics tips and tricks (Thank you well done) and am starting his beta play thru. I never do that either. This game is worth it. The detail the detail is incredible. The multiple systems and how they interact. The decision trees that are constant and changing. The logistics system is phenomenal and believe me I know how important supply is but sometimes find micromanaging tedious and a repetitive grind . I have simply just given up on CWIF because the convoy system still cannot be set up right.( just an aside why oh why cant he fix that?) I have seen actual war as an observer and I have studied it for years and logistics is fundamental and this game for me captures that.

I see some complaining on this forum about the logistics system and it reminds me why I never come on these things anymore. RTFM and please understand the concept of abstraction and metaphor before you post and complain. It kinda reminds me of people who wanted a different ending to Game of Thrones...Bizarre...Um I didn't like that ending in Hamlet where everybody dies so do you think you can change the ending Mr. Shakespeare...I have a petition here from the groundlings. And no I am not putting GOT or this game in the same category as Hamlet... just making a joke to make a point. ( You have to say that these days or somebody will Tucker Carlson you with a big Ahhhha you are a liberal because your logic is well logical LOL)

I have been playing the same saved game of Shadow Empire a few times to get used to the system before I lock it in and try for a complete game and its just jaw dropping. One example the game starts and I know whats going to happen right? After all I have played the same opening a few times.So I do the same moves that I have for the other false starts but with one small exception.I don't bother covering my southern flank completely because I know there is no real danger there and I am concentrating on another aspect of the game to learn. However this time my supply route gets cut off. My capital is surrounded and isolated. Game over. I had never seen the AI do anything like that. I was in love.

Sometimes I just keep going deeper and deeper. I actually watched some obscure number 39 infantry guy to see if he broke through and how many guys he killed... I play the battles round by round even though I cant do anything to affect the battle... When I actually got what the design was doing with traffic lights and the logistics system I proposed. I love how you have to wait a couple of turns for new finished assets to click in. The game stays true to its own internal logic and assumptions which is so rare. The RPG aspect and the interplay of ratings and stats is brilliant.

The deeper you dig the more you see how intricate and well thought out it is and how each aspect colors each other.

There is such thought given to even the smallest design concept... For me I am flabbergasted. Thank you. Please do not cave Mr designer to voices who want this dumbed down. Stick with your vision. I am pretty sure you will stick to it, given your history with your designs in the past but I just couldn't lurk about this gem. I had to come out of hiding. I have played this almost continuously since I dl'ed it three days ago. I need to sleep so sorry for typos. Just one more turn. Ahhhh. I love that feeling. Just one more turn. At my age that has a lot more weight than it did. LOL

Thanks

John



Post #: 1
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:29:04 PM   
Frostwave


Posts: 109
Joined: 3/25/2013
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I hear ya. I usually don't bother too much with bug testing and activity on forums but this game deserves the attention and any help I can provide. I agree definitely don't want it dumbed down but I can't see that happening.

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 2
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:30:49 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Agree wholeheartedly! I hope this game gets plenty of DLCs! It's truly unique. I haven't gotten the same feeling of a new game since I was a teenager 20 years ago. Also, it's not too hard even on regular for a new player if you put some effort in it and have experience in harder core strategy games. Maybe too may strategem cards handed out and maybe the decision amount could be chosen in initial settings like Dastactics said but this way every turn is important.

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 3
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:36:31 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline 		Yes, I'm fully onboard your hype train. This is the best 4x I've played since Master of Orion 2 when I was 13 years old. The same "one more turn" feeling as my wide-eyed teenage years discovering just how deep and engrossing a game could be. I've had a rather busy week at work, almost every free hour has been spent playing this or reading about it.

The logistics doesn't need to be dumbed down. It needs MORE options / more control as far as I'm concerned. Not much more, but a bit.

I just got my first win on a moon planet on turn 22. It was a piece of cake actually. Now to get a win on a small planet...I can't wait for whatever mishaps will befall my empire. By the way, have you read the backstory in the manual? Really enlightens one's perspective on this game and worth the read despite the typos.

_____________________________


(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 4
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:38:02 PM   
springel


Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gatsby
Please do not cave Mr designer to voices who want this dumbed down. Stick with your vision.


Hear! Hear!

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 5
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:41:27 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Yeah agree the manual should be read before playing. I hope some games would have a seen element of the shadow and maybe they have. I also hope all of techs could not be seen beforehand and would vary between games. The logistics system is not hard and could very well be made even more complex. The only think I don't understand of it, now playing my first game, is bottlenecks. Maybe some day.

(in reply to AttuWatcher)
Post #: 6
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 4:44:14 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

quote:

ORIGINAL: gatsby
Please do not cave Mr designer to voices who want this dumbed down. Stick with your vision.


Hear! Hear!


The complexity absolutely is the thing that makes this game truly special. People seeking for something easier have tens of other great strategy games to play. And after that, after getting used to them and wanting more, get back to this one.

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 7
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 5:28:46 PM   
t1it

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 11/23/2011
Status: offline 		For his sake, Vic better make an in-game tutorial before steam release.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 8
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 5:28:56 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks for sharing what many/most/all of us, older, gamers are thinking.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 9
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:05:13 PM   
Culthrasa

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: offline 		Can't agree more! Fantastic game with fantastic depth! Well done Vic!

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 10
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:09:20 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: t1it

For his sake, Vic better make an in-game tutorial before steam release.


This will indeed be the first and loudest complaint of the Steamers if the game doesn't have one, although with this wonderful game I don't see how an in game tutorial can do anything more than scratch the surface.

(in reply to t1it)
Post #: 11
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:12:35 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13


quote:

ORIGINAL: t1it

For his sake, Vic better make an in-game tutorial before steam release.


This will indeed be the first and loudest complaint of the Steamers if the game doesn't have one, although with this wonderful game I don't see how an in game tutorial can do anything more than scratch the surface.


Think of an ingame tutorial for War in the Pacific? Not going to happen and its a good thing. I will be hurtling my money towards anything that keeps this kind of innovation and complexity in it!

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
Post #: 12
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:17:02 PM   
springel


Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline 		Actually if people were prepared to spend an hour or more just looking at all the windows, tabs, panels and reports, the game itself will reveal already many of its secrets.

And you can click about any window without committing to the action, so you can just discover what is possible by doing what.

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
Post #: 13
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:26:11 PM   
OldSarge


Posts: 642
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline 		I have to say that this game, so far, has exceeded my expectations! I watched all of the YouTube videos while the game was in beta, all of the commenters were saying how addictive this game is, and now I have to add in my own agreement! This game is a great deal of fun and has that elusive 'just one more turn' quality. I definitely would recommend this as a 'must buy'.

It'll be interesting to see how Vic matures this game going forward.

_____________________________

You and the rest, you forgot the first rule of the fanatic: When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy.
Jeffrey Sinclair, "Infection", Babylon 5

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 14
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:31:49 PM   
ceannbui

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline 		i want to add my voice to this. similar to OP, i often buy a game and tire of it within a very short time (but i'm not very good at more complex games). I have been in search of something that is sci-fi/fantasy with a lot of depth. This game fulfills a need that a lot of other games don't

This game is very complex, and every attempt to play it allows me to understand another part of it. and that excites me. Maybe i find it a little too difficult, but according to behavioural science, if something is not easy to achieve, then it is worth achieving and that is the feeling i have playing this game.


(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 15
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 6:56:29 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline 		Wow well said! I share your sentiments :)
It's such a gem, I hope it stays true to itself. It's a fantastic experience and a huge success (success is not measured in money earned, but let's hope it does well on that front too)!

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 16
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 7:17:49 PM   
hellcat23

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline 		This is close to a so called Holy Grail of games i think. I too have broken years of silence to voice support for this game.

Top Level it's sci-fi and a wargame and a superior 4X strategy type game - this is amazing in itself.

But then you go deeper... Fans of xcom original and master of orion are loving this. It even has ironman and rogue-like qualities. But then there is deep management, logistics and layers that players of sim city or skylines will love.

Deeper - there is wonderful exploration, procedural planet generation and it's almost a survival game too (a very popular genre in itself).

It's a wonderful onion of layers that Eve players find compelling. It's plenty hardcore enough for them with graphs and spreadsheets to pick through.

And yet even more casual players can access it and are playing it. It isn't locking less advanced players out of the game like so many other games of this depth and complexity do.

It's such a witches brew of good things.

To quote Major Hogan from Sharpe's Eagle 'Oh, believe me, Richard, I've drunk of the cup. And its intoxication I can well remember!'


(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 17
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 8:06:37 PM   
RobearGWJ

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 7/10/2010
Status: offline 		After what happened to the fine "Brother Against Brother", I want to join the chorus urging those who enjoy solid, interesting, detailed wargames to jump in. Can't let another good game wither because too many people decide to "wait for the third time it's on sale", hoping to save $5. Jump in; the more sales, the more interesting stuff gets thrown in over the next year or two. I really want to see air power, at a minimum. :-)

(in reply to hellcat23)
Post #: 18
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/12/2020 9:53:33 PM   
KingHalford


Posts: 488
Joined: 8/18/2016
Status: offline 		What a great post! I concur to the fullest extent of my ability to do so.

_____________________________

Ben "BATTLEMODE"
www.eXplorminate.co

(in reply to RobearGWJ)
Post #: 19
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/13/2020 2:10:51 AM   
washtana

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/2/2017
Status: offline 		Fantastic game, I can't remember the last time I had this much fun with a 4x game (maybe MOO2?). I want more, make a DLC, I will be glad to help support your efforts. Oh and big thanks to the folks that are posting on you tube it really helps.

(in reply to KingHalford)
Post #: 20
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/13/2020 2:48:19 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I agree, wonderful game! I second the suggestion that Vic make an in-game tutorial for Steam release, if possible. Also, maybe a native English speaker could help edit the manual? I know that's an expensive ask.

_____________________________


(in reply to washtana)
Post #: 21
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/13/2020 4:59:51 AM   
Zenra


Posts: 179
Joined: 4/25/2002
From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Status: offline 		So very well said and I echo every thought. I grew up with Sniper, DNO/FitE, 3R/A3R, WIF and many others before discovering Gary Grigsby’s Guadalcanal Campaign and its successors. At 62 i am hard to please but Shadow Empires has me as hooked as any game ever has since release. Very well done Vic, and I cannot thank you enough for the fast and many updates since. Can’t wait to see where this goes, but enjoying every minute I can scrounge playing along the way!

< Message edited by Zenra -- 6/13/2020 5:01:00 AM >

_____________________________

Mitchell

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 22
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/13/2020 1:15:23 PM   
Kumppi


Posts: 209
Joined: 10/21/2008
From: Somewhere between Sweden and Russia
Status: offline 		I'll join the chorus. Very good game indeed.

(in reply to Zenra)
Post #: 23
RE: A Fantastic Game-BUY IT - 6/13/2020 1:49:36 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the kind words guys!

At the moment I am churning out Open Beta builds almost everyday as I am focussing on making the game as stable as possible and fixing rules that were not exactly doing what they should have been doing.

I hope that within a few weeks I can shift time to actually adding stuff to the game.

Best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to Kumppi)
Post #: 24
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