Research/discover energy production

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Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 5:40:19 PM

ceannbui

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline

Hi y'all, question re research

Why can i NOT research (discover) energy production?

I have started about 10 games and not once have i been able to discover energy production (power plant/ solar) before the choices expand to tech level 2. I've read that one way to do this is to defund actual research, due to the fact that the tree advancement occurs after 3 techs have been researched. But that doesn't answer WHY i cannot discover energy production prior,

I assumed there was some kind of RNG involved but the fact that i have played 10 games with the same result impplies the possibility that energy production tech is negatively valued somehow. the implication reinforced by another post similar to this one.
maybe i've missed something in the manual??

Post #: 1

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 5:52:48 PM

AttuWatcher

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline

That's a horrible string of bad luck. I had your same problem in my first game and it cost me the win, but in my second game I pumped up discovery and dropped research, and I discovered the power plant fairly easily after 10 turns of so.

Every other game since then I've followed the same formula, and I've unlocked either power plants or solar power, or both, within a fairly reasonable amount of time. Seems like horrible bad luck if you are already, as you say, defunding research and pumping up discovery.

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(in reply to ceannbui)

Post #: 2

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 5:55:46 PM

ceannbui

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline

sorry, clarification.
it's only in the last game that i defunded research adn pumped up discovery (but i'd just researched my third level 1 tech)
so i guess i'll have to restart again and try again.

(in reply to AttuWatcher)

Post #: 3

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 5:56:46 PM

Culthrasa

Posts: 189
Joined: 4/16/2017
Status: offline

What is your ratio between researching and discovering? If you have say 20%discover 80% research you open new blocks of tech rather quickly thereby expanding the pool of possible discoveries. I would advise that the first few turns you do a lot of discovering (till you got what you want, then switch to research.

(in reply to AttuWatcher)

Post #: 4

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 5:59:05 PM

Jdane

Posts: 456
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline

It's random so you just had a string of bad luck. Let's not forget that completed military researches also count towards the fated 3 threshold, so if you want to maximize your chances, you have to also cut down the research in the military council.

Although I wonder what happens when there's no military tech to discover left. Does the budget for discovery get reallocated to research?

If that's the case you could really end up chasing after the clock, since there's 3 military techs in tier I.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/12/2020 6:00:04 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 6:06:08 PM

Naselus

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline

This does seem commonplace enough to suggest some weighting for earlier techs might be useful. Say, +5% weight on earlier branch techs for each tech discovered in a later branch.

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Post #: 6

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 6:12:02 PM

ceannbui

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/12/2020
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I think that is a good idea, just for the initial (lvl 1) tech because i do like the idea that discovery/research is rng

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Post #: 7

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 6:16:22 PM

Laiders

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jdane

It's random so you just had a string of bad luck. Let's not forget that completed military researches also count towards the fated 3 threshold, so if you want to maximize your chances, you have to also cut down the research in the military council.

Although I wonder what happens when there's no military tech to discover left. Does the budget for discovery get reallocated to research?
If that's the case you could really end up chasing after the clock, since there's 3 military techs in tier I.

At that point you could choose to defund your MC entirely if necessary and yes the game tries to shunt points around so they are not wasted, if it can. Research shunts to discovery and vice versa if you cannot do one of them.

OP the answer is bad luck and not understanding the quirks of the research system. Both understandable. I never set discovery below 60% for my starting EC (and I generally start EC, though some people swear by MDC as an opener). EC gets the lion's share of total funding. Depending of the research situation when prompted to open my second council, mostly MC and mostly I wait for the prompt, I will either equalise funding between the two or leave my EC getting the lion's share. MC is set the same as EC to start or possibly even more biased towards discovery. Continue until all core economic techs are researched.

Since adopting this strategy, I've never been locked out of energy generation and left in a crisis. I believe an option for T0 energy generation might be added, along the lines of the bio-fuel refinery, to solve this particular crunch, albeit very inefficiently.

On higher difficulties, military strength can be much more important so the above is only good for regular and below. Hard and Extreme require their own strategies.

Finally, in an energy crunch you can always mothball or lower production of less important buildings to ensure the core keeps going. You will never be locked out of construction because, as far as I am aware, energy is never used as a construction cost.

< Message edited by Laiders -- 6/12/2020 6:17:39 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 6:24:36 PM

Vormithrax

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/21/2017
Status: offline

When you fully research 3 techs in a field it opens up availability in adjacent tech sections. You can purposefully delay fully researching that 3rd tech (through BP funding chanes) until your Discovery process acquires the other critical Basic Techs. This way you make sure you proceed with the minimal required ones before you dilute the random 'available techs' pool by opening up multiple other groups before you are ready.

(in reply to Laiders)

Post #: 9

RE: Research/discover energy production - 6/12/2020 6:29:14 PM

hellcat23

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/16/2011
Status: offline

Oh I just made a thread about my experiences on this. Although building doesn't take energy production the running costs of buildings do require energy per turn which is the killer when you don't have any energy production researched.

I think a Tier 0 building like wind farm or something would be a good fix unless the energy research can be resolved by other means (coding)

(in reply to Vormithrax)

Post #: 10