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RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 6:13:15 PM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		That sounds like a draconian limitation of air usage and disproportionately affects Soviet players who will still keep planes on-field to drain 20-30% of supply/fuel a turn. All one has to do is keep bases 19 hexes out and Axis is good to go.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 31
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 7:11:30 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		The air war is advantage Soviet IMO, however Axis can adapt to it. I don't know where the game balance lies but Axis seem to be doing OK, so starting a game I would be willing to play either side as is.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 32
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 7:22:40 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

The air war is advantage Soviet IMO, however Axis can adapt to it. I don't know where the game balance lies but Axis seem to be doing OK, so starting a game I would be willing to play either side as is.


I currently have a game as a German & was looking at playing one as Soviets for the 2nd one. So you are saying Tyronec to leave the current air rules alone?

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Post #: 33
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 7:23:59 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

That sounds like a draconian limitation of air usage and disproportionately affects Soviet players who will still keep planes on-field to drain 20-30% of supply/fuel a turn. All one has to do is keep bases 19 hexes out and Axis is good to go.


Could be, but I think the Soviet Air power is over the top. But that is just me. Maybe you are right.

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 34
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 7:27:26 PM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		If it’s not properly countered then yeah it will snowball quick and hard. I do think ground bombing needs some rebalancing. I favor strengthening flak because that introduces a play-counterplay mechanic. Currently no number of flak will prevent IL-2 runs from racking up 100-200 kills and 10 tubes per sortie.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 35
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 7:37:52 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

If it’s not properly countered then yeah it will snowball quick and hard. I do think ground bombing needs some rebalancing. I favor strengthening flak because that introduces a play-counterplay mechanic. Currently no number of flak will prevent IL-2 runs from racking up 100-200 kills and 10 tubes per sortie.


I normally see much higher kills than what you posted, about double. Hence why I was saying for the Soviets to have some skin in the game by having to attack the hex too to be able to ground bomb the hex.

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Post #: 36
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 9:00:42 PM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		I don't doubt it! I'm maxing out my tac bombers every turn so they're a bit fatigued for (ideally) overall more casualties. My highest was I think 250, and this is just in 1941.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 37
RE: 12.5 - 6/20/2020 11:40:12 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

I don't doubt it! I'm maxing out my tac bombers every turn so they're a bit fatigued for (ideally) overall more casualties. My highest was I think 250, and this is just in 1941.


I have had 470+ in 1941. There is a trick to it and when people figure it out I'm sure more will jump on the house rule of limiting the amount of IL2 ground bombing. Because in 42 it gets worse :-(

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Post #: 38
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 12:14:22 AM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		Sure, turn 1-2 40-plane regiments, wiggle your ears twice and click your heels thrice before committing planes, and use the best air commanders. That's all there is to is to it!

In seriousness, though, 42 x 20-plane regiments can knock out 10,000 jerries and about half the arms point production each turn in guns easily without optimization. Maybe axis needs to rush Voronezh and only triple-stack units!

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 39
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 12:53:23 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

If it’s not properly countered then yeah it will snowball quick and hard. I do think ground bombing needs some rebalancing. I favor strengthening flak because that introduces a play-counterplay mechanic. Currently no number of flak will prevent IL-2 runs from racking up 100-200 kills and 10 tubes per sortie.


I normally see much higher kills than what you posted, about double. Hence why I was saying for the Soviets to have some skin in the game by having to attack the hex too to be able to ground bomb the hex.



The Soviets do have some skin in the game in that they have to place a div adjacent to raise the detection level to 10. Units close to the front in 41-42 are candidates for pocketing next turn.

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 40
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 12:58:21 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

If it’s not properly countered then yeah it will snowball quick and hard. I do think ground bombing needs some rebalancing. I favor strengthening flak because that introduces a play-counterplay mechanic. Currently no number of flak will prevent IL-2 runs from racking up 100-200 kills and 10 tubes per sortie.


Agree flak does absolutely nothing and as a Soviet perhaps best to disband to free up men and weapons. Axis, stay off unfortified clear hexes.

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 41
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 1:23:24 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

Sure, turn 1-2 40-plane regiments, wiggle your ears twice and click your heels thrice before committing planes, and use the best air commanders. That's all there is to is to it!

In seriousness, though, 42 x 20-plane regiments can knock out 10,000 jerries and about half the arms point production each turn in guns easily without optimization. Maybe axis needs to rush Voronezh and only triple-stack units!


1st para, interesting but doesn't work. As they say in the OSCP course,"Try Harder"

in seriousness 2nd para are pipe dreams that are nice if it could happen on a regular basis in games. But afraid it won't be a norm.

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 42
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 1:26:37 AM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		I'm just giving you a hard time because the Pskov defense isn't holding up for me in 1.12.05

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 43
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 1:38:34 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

I'm just giving you a hard time because the Pskov defense isn't holding up for me in 1.12.05


It is all good... People on the forums either hate me or give me a hard time. But aready mentioned the Pskov defense would not be viable in 12.x. But I'm sure you are more than smart enough to have something 100 times better than what I ever did.

What part of USA are you from?

(in reply to eskuche)
Post #: 44
RE: 12.5 - 6/21/2020 1:42:05 AM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		Eh, Cleveland, home of the WITE manual readers who can't do much else in the game :). Sparkletits has unhinged my Pskov turn 2 pretty handily, and I went over sillyflower's line pretty hard as well. This is getting slightly off-topic though, hopefully I will get better with more punishment and many more games under my belt.

< Message edited by eskuche -- 6/21/2020 4:10:35 AM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 45
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