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Ludendorff Bridge/Remagen scenario/tunnel question - 7/30/2003 12:37:18 AM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Hey folks! Thanks for the feedback on my first question. I have two more and then I'll go crawl back under my rock.

First off, yet another scenario question. Has anyone put together a scenario for Remagen or the Lludendorff bridge? I've visited there twice and am a bit sentimental about it and the Rhine in general. I actually put a scenario together based on Remagen in SPWW2 based on Panzer Leader scenario #20 as well as accounts and maps I was able to find on the net, but haven't ported (i.e. re-created) it for SPWAW yet.

My second question relates to creating maps in SPWAW. The only real frustration I had in recreating the scenario in SP was my inability to create a tunnel for the railroad. I couldn't find a way to do it in SPWW2 and I've done a search on the forums here and haven't seen a way to create tunnels in SPWAW. Can it be done?

If not, then what is the best way to simulate a tunnel besides a big ditch/gully?

Thanks.
Post #: 1
Re: Ludendorff Bridge/Remagen scenario/tunnel question - 7/31/2003 8:25:14 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IBTyrone
[B]Hey folks! Thanks for the feedback on my first question. I have two more and then I'll go crawl back under my rock.

First off, yet another scenario question. Has anyone put together a scenario for Remagen or the Lludendorff bridge? I've visited there twice and am a bit sentimental about it and the Rhine in general. I actually put a scenario together based on Remagen in SPWW2 based on Panzer Leader scenario #20 as well as accounts and maps I was able to find on the net, but haven't ported (i.e. re-created) it for SPWAW yet.

My second question relates to creating maps in SPWAW. The only real frustration I had in recreating the scenario in SP was my inability to create a tunnel for the railroad. I couldn't find a way to do it in SPWW2 and I've done a search on the forums here and haven't seen a way to create tunnels in SPWAW. Can it be done?

If not, then what is the best way to simulate a tunnel besides a big ditch/gully?.

Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

I recommend you to download my Map making doc file from my signature below! You should find lots of inspiring info on how to solve various SPWAW map making issues!:cool:

use "right click link/save target as..." method to download the file from the link!!;) Just clicking the link does not work unfortunately.

I remember there was a Remagen bridge scenario from long ago. I think scenario designer was Bob Wallace. Did you check the standard SPWAW scenarios coming with the game download?

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Post #: 2
Re: Re: Ludendorff Bridge/Remagen scenario/tunnel question - 8/1/2003 6:09:27 AM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]I recommend you to download my Map making doc file from my signature below! You should find lots of inspiring info on how to solve various SPWAW map making issues!:cool:

use "right click link/save target as..." method to download the file from the link!!;) Just clicking the link does not work unfortunately.

I remember there was a Remagen bridge scenario from long ago. I think scenario designer was Bob Wallace. Did you check the standard SPWAW scenarios coming with the game download? [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Rockin Harry. I've downloaded the file and already perused it. I think I may approximate the tunnel on the other side of the Rhine by putting caves on either side of the hill. That should accomplish what I was trying to get at--German troops hiding in the tunnel firing at the US troopers trying to secure the bridge.

I tried using WAW map to convert the map, but when I try to open the SPWW2 map, the program says it is not a SPWW2 map. I'm assuming it is because I created the map using SPWW2v5 which is too new for WAW map to recognize.

I've pretty much resigned myself to re-creating the map for SPWAW. I know my way around SP a little better now anyways.

As far as a scenario for Remagen Bridge--I haven't found it going through the scenarios. The only one remotely close is Wild Bill's excellent rendition of Ramelle. But I could have missed it.

Thanks for responding.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 3
- 8/3/2003 9:46:45 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I actually find your idea using "cave" units for the tunnel exits quite good and reasonable!:) There could be more complicated methods working on the map itself, but I doubt the results would be more useful, regarding your scenario idea. Just as SP2WW2 V6(which I also have on hard drive), SPWAW does not support more than one ground level! A "tunnel" obviously would be an additional underground level and I think you canīt do more than fake it!:rolleyes: Btw,..you could use an armed version of the "railcar/tarpin" unit in the norway OOB file! I use it quite frequently as some sort of bunker, basement, ect. It has a loading capacity of 255 I think and you could put in a lots of stuff if needed!:D Make it size=0 and edit the other values to your liking so it comes close to something that works for you (tunnel exit).

Fred Chlanda, the programmer of the great map tools stopped working on his programms long time ago and SP2WW2 had changed its terrain system since, so you canīt convert between SP2WW2 and SPWAW anymore.

Might be the Remagen scenario I mean is an older one and not included in current SPWAW install anymore. I sure know it was a Bob Wallace design though. Iīll browse what I have on my hard drive, maybe Iīll find it.

have fun

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Post #: 4
- 8/11/2003 11:07:23 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry I didn't reply sooner, RockinHarry. I missed your reply and was going though some old messages and noticed your post. Thanks for responding.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]I actually find your idea using "cave" units for the tunnel exits quite good and reasonable!:) There could be more complicated methods working on the map itself, but I doubt the results would be more useful, regarding your scenario idea. Just as SP2WW2 V6(which I also have on hard drive), SPWAW does not support more than one ground level! A "tunnel" obviously would be an additional underground level and I think you canīt do more than fake it!:rolleyes:

[/Quote]

Thank you for confirming my suspicions, Harry. I was afraid of that.

[Quote]
[B]
Btw,..you could use an armed version of the "railcar/tarpin" unit in the norway OOB file! I use it quite frequently as some sort of bunker, basement, ect. It has a loading capacity of 255 I think and you could put in a lots of stuff if needed!:D Make it size=0 and edit the other values to your liking so it comes close to something that works for you (tunnel exit).



Good idea, Harry. I didn't know about the railcar/tarpin as an option. From what I've been able to gather, there was only a squad or so of engineers inside the tunnel mouth trying to blow the bridge, and not much more. No artillery, tanks or anything like that.

I don't think approximating the forces inside the cave/tunnel mouth will be a problem. What will be more difficult is not allowing Allied vehicles to pass through the tunnel to the other side of the hill. They will have to go over or around. Lot's of potential for German skulduggery at the top of the hill. ;-)

quote:



Fred Chlanda, the programmer of the great map tools stopped working on his programms long time ago and SP2WW2 had changed its terrain system since, so you canīt convert between SP2WW2 and SPWAW anymore.



That's too bad. Thanks also for confirming my suspicions with MapEdit. Is there any mention of Mapedit not working with newer versions of SPWW2 in the SPWAW manual?


[Quote]

Might be the Remagen scenario I mean is an older one and not included in current SPWAW install anymore. I sure know it was a Bob Wallace design though. Iīll browse what I have on my hard drive, maybe Iīll find it.

have fun [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe I've pretty much browsed through all the scenarios that have been included with 7.1 several times and I don't think it is in there--but I still could have missed it. I looked for Bob Wallace's initials and didn't see those either. Wild Bill's scenarios are listed with a WBW, but I'm not sure what Bob would have used.

If you do happen to track down Bob's version of Remagen I would greatly appreciate it. If nothing else, it would be nice to see how he dealt with the tunnel.

Thanks.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 5
- 8/12/2003 8:58:39 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IBTyrone
[B]

That's too bad. Thanks also for confirming my suspicions with MapEdit. Is there any mention of Mapedit not working with newer versions of SPWW2 in the SPWAW manual?
[/B][/QUOTE]

No, not in any manual AFAIK. Development of Freds tools has stopped 2 years ago and after his stroke he just added small features to WAW Edit, but not to WaWMap Edit! since the camo guys added their new hills/level stuff in that time itīs clear that Freds tools donīt work with newer SP2WW2 maps anymore.
However, I just would check Freds web site, his tools and readme files for appropiate info.

Re Bob Wallace Remagen scenario. Could be it was available on some SPWAW internet sites that either arenīt online anymore or have been downgraded like Tabnkheads, Fabio Pradoīs Tiger site ect. I might have a backup somewhere and when I find it Iīll post it here.

have fun

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Post #: 6
- 8/13/2003 9:43:40 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]No, not in any manual AFAIK. Development of Freds tools has stopped 2 years ago and after his stroke he just added small features to WAW Edit, but not to WaWMap Edit! since the camo guys added their new hills/level stuff in that time itīs clear that Freds tools donīt work with newer SP2WW2 maps anymore.
However, I just would check Freds web site, his tools and readme files for appropiate info.
[/B]
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about the stroke. That would explain why it hasn't been updated in awhile.

quote:



Re Bob Wallace Remagen scenario. Could be it was available on some SPWAW internet sites that either arenīt online anymore or have been downgraded like Tabnkheads, Fabio Pradoīs Tiger site ect. I might have a backup somewhere and when I find it Iīll post it here.

have fun [/B][/QUOTE]

I've done a fairly decent job of scouring the popular SPWAW sites gathering quite a few scenarios and campaigns. However, I haven't had a chance to try *any* of them because I've been spending the last week or so with WildBill's Utah to the Rhine campaign, which I've enjoyed immensely.

All that to say, I still haven't stumbled across the Bob Wallace Remagen scenario, so if you or anyone else does happen to have a backup somewhere, I would appreciate getting it when you have time.

Thanks.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 7
- 8/14/2003 7:06:08 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IBTyrone
[B]I've done a fairly decent job of scouring the popular SPWAW sites gathering quite a few scenarios and campaigns. However, I haven't had a chance to try *any* of them because I've been spending the last week or so with WildBill's Utah to the Rhine campaign, which I've enjoyed immensely.

All that to say, I still haven't stumbled across the Bob Wallace Remagen scenario, so if you or anyone else does happen to have a backup somewhere, I would appreciate getting it when you have time.

Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

WBīs Utah to the Rhine is a good one! :)

...I searched my backups, but had no luck either. I think mentioned Bob Wallace Remagen scenario was an old one, probably SPWAW V4.x something. However..if you tackle your version of a Remagen scenario then itīs best to start unbiased anyway! With nowadays tools and knowledge you can make so much better and nicer scenarios than just 2-3 years ago!
Iīm quite sure youīll make a very interesting and enjoyable "new" Remagen scenario!:)

have fun

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Post #: 8
- 8/14/2003 10:34:52 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]WBīs Utah to the Rhine is a good one! :)

...I searched my backups, but had no luck either. I think mentioned Bob Wallace Remagen scenario was an old one, probably SPWAW V4.x something. However..if you tackle your version of a Remagen scenario then itīs best to start unbiased anyway! With nowadays tools and knowledge you can make so much better and nicer scenarios than just 2-3 years ago!
Iīm quite sure youīll make a very interesting and enjoyable "new" Remagen scenario!:)

have fun [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for looking. At least I know there is a Bob Wallace Remagen scenario out there somewhere. I'll see if I can stumble across it in the future. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do about re-creating the one I did for SPWW2.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 9
- 8/15/2003 12:04:05 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IBTyrone
[B]Thanks for looking. At least I know there is a Bob Wallace Remagen scenario out there somewhere. I'll see if I can stumble across it in the future. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do about re-creating the one I did for SPWW2. [/B][/QUOTE]


btw, i have SP2WW2 V6 installed on hard drive too. Is your Remagen scenario part of the standard install, or if not, where can I download it to have a peek?

Btw, SP2WW2 V6 has these "sewer" units and in fact you can do the same when using the mentioned railcat/tarpin unit (norway OOB) or the loadable bunkers from H2H fr.

have fun

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Post #: 10
- 8/15/2003 1:14:51 AM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]btw, i have SP2WW2 V6 installed on hard drive too. Is your Remagen scenario part of the standard install, or if not, where can I download it to have a peek?
[/B]
[/QUOTE]

*snicker* Oh no, RockinHarry, it's not on the standard install. It was my first stab at map/scenario creation with Steel Panthers in general. It was also before I knew about SPWAW running on Windows (shows how new I was to the SP scene). If I had my druthers, I would have done the Remagen scenario in SPWAW to begin with, but as it is, there is enough that I would like to change now that I know more about the game that it probably would need to be reworked again anyways. Plus, I know my historical accuracy could be improved significantly (since I based the units primarily on AH Panzer Leader scenario #20) and I don't think the 4 Pershings that Remagen is known for are part of AH's scenario. I'd definitely want to research it more (as much as I can using the Internet) before I would post it anywhere. It's been awhile since I looked at it as I haven't played SPWW2 in a long time (crashes my computer too much).

I don't like re-inventing the wheel, which was part of the reason why I asked if anyone else had done a Remagen scenario initially, but if there isn't one floating out there easily available, then I probably will look into converting my SPWW2 version.

[QUOTE]
[B]
Btw, SP2WW2 V6 has these "sewer" units and in fact you can do the same when using the mentioned railcat/tarpin unit (norway OOB) or the loadable bunkers from H2H fr.

have fun [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm still pretty sure caves will be the way I go since the graphic *should* look like a tunnel mouth, but I won't know until I get to that point.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 11
- 8/16/2003 9:11:14 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		(Re-)Making a SPWAW Remagen scenario based on nowadays scenario and map making standards, seems to be a very interesting task! :cool: Looking forward to give your scenario a try once itīs finished!:)

Let me know if you bump into a particular design problem, I might have some useful info for you!;) Btw, do you know how to work with Freds Map Editor?

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Post #: 12
- 8/16/2003 11:04:50 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B](Re-)Making a SPWAW Remagen scenario based on nowadays scenario and map making standards, seems to be a very interesting task! :cool: Looking forward to give your scenario a try once itīs finished!:)

Let me know if you bump into a particular design problem, I might have some useful info for you!;) Btw, do you know how to work with Freds Map Editor? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I have to get started on it first. I already have a better collection of maps and pictures than I had the first go around, so from a mapmaking perspective, it should be more accurate. I'm having a little more difficult time tracking down the order of battle, but I have a pretty good idea of who the main players are.

I have read on the net that the Panzer Leader scenario that I based the last try on was historically inaccurate, and basically set up as a beginner battle. I've also read that the it actually wasn't much of a battle as the troop allotments were so one-sided in the Americans favor, so making Remagen as a scenario was said to be pointless as it wasn't really an evenly matched battle historically. One thing I want to do, if possible, is to give the Germans a chance to actually blow the bridge, either by actually having the explosives work as they were supposed to, or by having the bridge get bombed before the Americans bring up adequate AA support. I think the bombers would be easy enough as they could come in as reinforcements later, but I'm not as sure about blowing the bridge (I doubt there is any sort of random situation generator).

I hope to get a chance to read Ken Hechler's book "Bridge at Remagen" in the next week or so which should help my historical understanding immensely.

As far as Fred's map editor, I've never used it. I used the map editor in SPWW2 when I created that map, and was planning on using the map editor in SPWAW for this scenario. Isn't that editor sufficient for creating basic maps? Wouldn't I use Fred's for the more advanced stuff?

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 13
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