Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

From reading this AAR, I wonder what your Submarine sunk tonnage list would've looked like if you had the Submarine Tracker in the campaign since you have so far only lost 2 Submarines in the entire war for an impressive ratio kill list that even the Kriegsmarine U-Boat arm would've been jealous of. **Looks at the USS Lexington**

But 1943 is coming and the events of Black May is going to rain in for any Axis Submarine attempting to strike Allied Convoy's, the Happy times will truly be over...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
Over in the Soviet Union, the main strategic aim of Operation Siberian Winter has been accomplished as the two main Japanese army pincers link up with the fall of Kyaktah. With the help of the IJAAF bombers, the Japanese force from Ulan Bator even successfully mauled some Soviet divisions in its shock attack across the river. The Japanese troops will now head into the mountains and assume their blocking positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
Over in the Soviet Union, the main strategic aim of Operation Siberian Winter has been accomplished as the two main Japanese army pincers link up with the fall of Kyaktah. With the help of the IJAAF bombers, the Japanese force from Ulan Bator even successfully mauled some Soviet divisions in its shock attack across the river. The Japanese troops will now head into the mountains and assume their blocking positions.

Peanut gallery is cheering for you to keep pushing! Terrain is harder yes and Andy can concentrate on a few hexes. But on the bright side Andy is in relative disarray, your airforce gets a free hand, and Vlad theatre seems calm. You need a bit more strategic depth for your blocking positions :)

Is Cheremkhovo empty? It can't be , right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover.

If this somehow happens Sov units will have no entrance point and will stay off map forever - units can't march to/from offmap base despite what the F6 tells you, only strategic RR movement can be done. At least East Coast US base is like that.

But it is hardly possible for Japan to go all the way, too much material on too narrow front

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover. There are no other entry points for the SOV, meaning the late war SOV airforce doesn't exist. Yes, eventually he will march his troops out, but you will always have the advantage of an air force whereas he will not. Huge advantage ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Not so. I marched Soviet units from Alma Ata to China with no problem. No strat move is possible there for Soviet units because there is no rail link, but the paved road lets them move at 30 miles a day or 60 miles a day depending on unit type. Supply also flows from there to China.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
I am still debating with myself what to do next with regards to the Vladivostok pocket. I definitely intend to tighten the perimeter around the pocket, taking basically all the territory/bases except Voroshilov and Vladivostok as an initial step. But then what? Is it worth the casualties/supplies to seize this territory given the fact that Andy can teleport his units out when it starts looking bad for him? Is it even worth the effort to try to reduce the supplies in the pocket? Should I just leave this as a large POW camp of sorts for the next few years? What would you do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover.

If this somehow happens Sov units will have no entrance point and will stay off map forever - units can't march to/from offmap base despite what the F6 tells you, only strategic RR movement can be done. At least East Coast US base is like that.

But it is hardly possible for Japan to go all the way, too much material on too narrow front

Not so. I marched Soviet units from Alma Ata to China with no problem. No strat move is possible there for Soviet units because there is no rail link, but the paved road lets them move at 30 miles a day or 60 miles a day depending on unit type. Supply also flows from there to China.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover. There are no other entry points for the SOV, meaning the late war SOV airforce doesn't exist. Yes, eventually he will march his troops out, but you will always have the advantage of an air force whereas he will not. Huge advantage ...

Pax, the Soviet Air Force will be a minimal threat until 1945 - their starting force has been largely thrashed and they don't start getting replacement aircraft in serious numbers until December 1944. Soviet ground units on the other hand, especially in infantry and artillery, will be a very serious threat and in large numbers in just a few months time as he rebuilds his divisions and organizes himself. This threat progressively grows over the next few years and explodes in mid-1945.

Basically, assuming I am able to choose my defensive positions, it is far better to deal with the primary Soviet threat in the narrow blocking positions in the mountains than to extend myself in the vulnerable plains next to his offmap entry points. There really is not much advantage in taking this advance much further.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover. There are no other entry points for the SOV, meaning the late war SOV airforce doesn't exist. Yes, eventually he will march his troops out, but you will always have the advantage of an air force whereas he will not. Huge advantage ...

Pax, the Soviet Air Force will be a minimal threat until 1945 - their starting force has been largely thrashed and they don't start getting replacement aircraft in serious numbers until December 1944. Soviet ground units on the other hand, especially in infantry and artillery, will be a very serious threat and in large numbers in just a few months time as he rebuilds his divisions and organizes himself. This threat progressively grows over the next few years and explodes in mid-1945.

Basically, assuming I am able to choose my defensive positions, it is far better to deal with the primary Soviet threat in the narrow blocking positions in the mountains than to extend myself in the vulnerable plains next to his offmap entry points. There really is not much advantage in taking this advance much further.

Well, if you take Abakan and Krasnovarsk, his only entry point is Wasu. That would be lousy for him as his supply is not going to flow to support too many units. He cannot move east as there are no roads, he has to move south for a LONG way before he actually gets to a rail line . You know how hard it is to get oil to flow from Urumchi, it can be done, but it take effort. Imagine the effort to get 10K supply/day to travel even longer on the same road?

IOW: you will have taken SOV out of the game for all intents and purposes ... you won't have to fight the '45 SOV or the 44 or the 43. They will be stuck in Mongolia...

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I would use 10 or so of those tiny chutai bomber groups with Ida, set to max altitude, to get the SOV to burn up all their supply in useless AA. once they are low on supply, you can reduce and take the base.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

To Vlad or not to Vlad?

I am still debating with myself what to do next with regards to the Vladivostok pocket. I definitely intend to tighten the perimeter around the pocket, taking basically all the territory/bases except Voroshilov and Vladivostok as an initial step. But then what? Is it worth the casualties/supplies to seize this territory given the fact that Andy can teleport his units out when it starts looking bad for him? Is it even worth the effort to try to reduce the supplies in the pocket? Should I just leave this as a large POW camp of sorts for the next few years? What would you do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover. There are no other entry points for the SOV, meaning the late war SOV airforce doesn't exist. Yes, eventually he will march his troops out, but you will always have the advantage of an air force whereas he will not. Huge advantage ...

Pax, the Soviet Air Force will be a minimal threat until 1945 - their starting force has been largely thrashed and they don't start getting replacement aircraft in serious numbers until December 1944. Soviet ground units on the other hand, especially in infantry and artillery, will be a very serious threat and in large numbers in just a few months time as he rebuilds his divisions and organizes himself. This threat progressively grows over the next few years and explodes in mid-1945.

Basically, assuming I am able to choose my defensive positions, it is far better to deal with the primary Soviet threat in the narrow blocking positions in the mountains than to extend myself in the vulnerable plains next to his offmap entry points. There really is not much advantage in taking this advance much further.

Well, if you take Abakan and Krasnovarsk, his only entry point is Wasu. That would be lousy for him as his supply is not going to flow to support too many units. He cannot move east as there are no roads, he has to move south for a LONG way before he actually gets to a rail line . You know how hard it is to get oil to flow from Urumchi, it can be done, but it take effort. Imagine the effort to get 10K supply/day to travel even longer on the same road?

IOW: you will have taken SOV out of the game for all intents and purposes ... you won't have to fight the '45 SOV or the 44 or the 43. They will be stuck in Mongolia...

You mean to tell me that the Soviet player cannot march his units across into the map like he can in the Wasu area? Wow, I didn't realize that. If that's the case then yes, I totally agree, taking Abakan and Krasnovarsk would indeed be very advantageous. Don't think I can make it there though given how many forces he pulled out and disbanded from the pocket that will be coming into the line in the next months.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

To Vlad or not to Vlad?

I am still debating with myself what to do next with regards to the Vladivostok pocket. I definitely intend to tighten the perimeter around the pocket, taking basically all the territory/bases except Voroshilov and Vladivostok as an initial step. But then what? Is it worth the casualties/supplies to seize this territory given the fact that Andy can teleport his units out when it starts looking bad for him? Is it even worth the effort to try to reduce the supplies in the pocket? Should I just leave this as a large POW camp of sorts for the next few years? What would you do?

It can be done, but it’s bloody. It was already bloody when I did it in my test scenario in early ‘42, and in your case you might have to face more troops than I had moved to Vlad, and better troops (less disabled squads, Rifle ‘43 squads if he decides to upgrade the units - it would cost supply, but if you’re determined to attack, it’s worth it, unless he’s very short on it). As you activated them a bit early, and without moving to isolate Vladivostok quickly, Andy might have more troops concentrated, but given the disband, situation may have evolved. Do you have good intel about his forces there ? AV, number of divisions... ?

Shore bombardment may be dangerous, but this is where Yamato and Musashi (if you’ve built them) may be useful. Vlad’s fortress is solid, but I think those two might take the counter fire, at long range. The other classes, not so much.

So, I’d wait a few more months to fully assault the pocket. Tighten the loose, increase their supply consumption.


And talk to him about the teleport.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Operation Furnace

I had a chat with Andy and he made it clear that he has no intention of disbanding any more units from the Vladivostok pocket. This means that the Japanese effort to take Vladivostok, which I have dubbed Operation Furnace, is going forward.

My intention at this stage is to take Vladivostok in about a years time. This is no blitz like Siberian Winter but rather a steady and deliberate grind against entrenched forces with, inevitably, heavy Japanese casualties. A key part of this effort is the erosion of the pocket's supply which should make a huge difference in the outcome. This component of the operation will now intensify and as the Japanese offensive in the north concludes will be joined by ground operations which will hopefully conclude with the eventual storming of the key bases of Voroshilov and Vladivostok.

In terms of eroding the pocket's supply, I will use light bombers to eat into his stockpiles through the use of flak, medium bombers to target his industry and airfields for supply hits, naval bombardment against Vladivostok itself, and progressively more intensive ground operations to ramp up his consumption. Banzai!

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin
Well the siege of Vladivostok shall begin its going to be bloody and brutal and be the Soviet Union's equivalent of the Battle of Stalingrad, which is still ongoing as of December 1942.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Me? I would keep forcing North in the SOV. If you gain Krasnovarsk, Abakan, and Wasu, the SOV units entering the map have no base, so no air cover. There are no other entry points for the SOV, meaning the late war SOV airforce doesn't exist. Yes, eventually he will march his troops out, but you will always have the advantage of an air force whereas he will not. Huge advantage ...

Pax, the Soviet Air Force will be a minimal threat until 1945 - their starting force has been largely thrashed and they don't start getting replacement aircraft in serious numbers until December 1944. Soviet ground units on the other hand, especially in infantry and artillery, will be a very serious threat and in large numbers in just a few months time as he rebuilds his divisions and organizes himself. This threat progressively grows over the next few years and explodes in mid-1945.

Basically, assuming I am able to choose my defensive positions, it is far better to deal with the primary Soviet threat in the narrow blocking positions in the mountains than to extend myself in the vulnerable plains next to his offmap entry points. There really is not much advantage in taking this advance much further.

Well, if you take Abakan and Krasnovarsk, his only entry point is Wasu. That would be lousy for him as his supply is not going to flow to support too many units. He cannot move east as there are no roads, he has to move south for a LONG way before he actually gets to a rail line . You know how hard it is to get oil to flow from Urumchi, it can be done, but it take effort. Imagine the effort to get 10K supply/day to travel even longer on the same road?

IOW: you will have taken SOV out of the game for all intents and purposes ... you won't have to fight the '45 SOV or the 44 or the 43. They will be stuck in Mongolia...

You mean to tell me that the Soviet player cannot march his units across into the map like he can in the Wasu area? Wow, I didn't realize that. If that's the case then yes, I totally agree, taking Abakan and Krasnovarsk would indeed be very advantageous. Don't think I can make it there though given how many forces he pulled out and disbanded from the pocket that will be coming into the line in the next months.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin
Well the siege of Vladivostok shall begin its going to be bloody and brutal and be the Soviet Union's equivalent of the Battle of Stalingrad, which is still ongoing as of December 1942.

But first it's going to be tedious and repetitive. For like a year

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin
Well the siege of Vladivostok shall begin its going to be bloody and brutal and be the Soviet Union's equivalent of the Battle of Stalingrad, which is still ongoing as of December 1942.

But first it's going to be tedious and repetitive. For like a year

Maybe, but maybe not. Supply shortage negates the huge firepower advantage that SOV has, so then it is just AV and IJ can match/beat the AV numbers. If he drops forts each attack, then 15 or so attacks (max) and it should be done once supply is low. This is like CK only less AV ... I think totally doable once the firepower is negated.