Trying to better understand Strategems

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Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/23/2020 11:44:54 PM

tinjaw

Posts: 632
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Leavenworth, KS
Status: offline

I have 8 x Pillage strategems. I don't understand why these exist. Why would I ever do that to my own people? I have 6 x Expel Population. Why would I ever want to use that strategem?

Post #: 1

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 1:51:12 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

I don't know about pillage but expel works well when you have a HUGE unrest number and can't get it down.

(in reply to tinjaw)

Post #: 2

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 3:17:39 AM

Lovenought

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/21/2017
Status: offline

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Half of the Autocracy strategems seem pretty useless. Especially since (IIRC) if you have an autocratic/enforcement faction and you keep them very happy, they give you stratagems to suppress unrest by "assasinating rabble-rousers". Which only cost like 5 pp and can reduce over 20 unrest without actually damaging anything.

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 3

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 5:59:22 AM

Foxador

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/5/2020
Status: offline

Agreed. All the high end autocracy cards don't seem to serve any point since they just are about burning down your own towns which seems to be very strange / dumb since why would I want to destroy my own towns?

It can't be about unrest because that's easily countered by the 100% chance that you're going to get a event about unrest and you just send in troops to remove a ton of it plus you also get counter unrest cards that you can play.

Autocracy has always seemed in a odd place since it gives zero bonuses to anything unlike the other two options and then it's cards are all about just destroying your own towns

(in reply to Lovenought)

Post #: 4

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 11:41:37 AM

stemak

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/15/2011
Status: offline

I�m about to use a pillage card in my current game. The scenario where I�m using it is that the neighbour on my border is a Major and we are at War. So I�m going to surround a city of his and take it, then pillage and retreat before he brings up the mass of his forces. So yes technically I�m playing it on my own captured city, but really it�s his because I have no intention of staying there until later, as I�m too weak to hold it just now. I have never played this card before so it will be interesting to see if this raider type strategy works out.

< Message edited by stemak -- 7/24/2020 11:43:22 AM >

(in reply to Foxador)

Post #: 5

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 11:54:53 AM

Sieppo

Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stemak

I�m about to use a pillage card in my current game. The scenario where I�m using it is that the neighbour on my border is a Major and we are at War. So I�m going to surround a city of his and take it, then pillage and retreat before he brings up the mass of his forces. So yes technically I�m playing it on my own captured city, but really it�s his because I have no intention of staying there until later, as I�m too weak to hold it just now. I have never played this card before so it will be interesting to see if this raider type strategy works out.

I'd recommend putting some 500 men MG units in the city and just hold it. They get an at least 200% defense bonus in cities and even more in ruins. If they have armor, add some RPG or AT-units. In my experience and it's current version the AI is only truly capable of running away of small MG units whatever it's force is

. Even on hard-difficulty. Just put enough of them on fronts and especially where they get a terrain bonus. It's unlikely the AI will even attack. I hope the AI is fixed at some point to something more challenging.

EDIT: IMO MG units are quite OP at their current state, especially when you want to hold a line. Most of the times the AI will not even engage and most of the time just lose troops, if they do. 500 men per hex has mostly been enough to hold a line against any attack. And if armor, just add small units with weapons against that. Of course this is enough foolproof and if it seems the line will not hold, you'll probably have time to strengthen it. This has been a fact in all the games I have played. Sorry for the off topic.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 7/24/2020 12:00:58 PM >

(in reply to stemak)

Post #: 6

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 12:44:42 PM

Foxador

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/5/2020
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It's not just the MG that are strong at defense but also look at what posture the AI is playing for it's troops. Almost every game that I've played they always just use defense postures which makes them very bad at attacking. Sure they'll get up all in your grill with their units but they won't attack because they just LOVE to use postures that give them +30-75% defense but lower their attack by that same rate. So yea you might have a massive army outside your town but it'll hit like a wet noodle and will never attack you cause it has no attack rating.

Only time I've seen the AI use a attack posture is early in the game when it gets all out attack. After that it almost always switches over to defense or 'no retreat' posture and stays with that with all it's units.

Which means most of the time when I play the AI just shadows my units or gets really close and just looks at me all angry like but never does anything cause it can't attack

(in reply to Sieppo)

Post #: 7

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 12:44:58 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

The biggest strengh of Autocracy, is being able to pick autocracy options during decisions.
"Send in the troops" does not only directly remove unrest, it also adds Fear which further reduces unrest over time.

The downside is that the passive bonuses and Cards are pretty meh to offset that:
Their secret Service council is top notch. So much, it should be worth it to just get the Secret Service as 1st or 2nd Council.
Pillage could be used if you need Food and credits now. It may also be usefull to keep the Private Economy (and their QOL building ability) down.
Razzia is about intentionally adding fear.
Raze is the most situational one, as it does little but plain damage the city.

(in reply to Sieppo)

Post #: 8

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 12:53:31 PM

Sieppo

Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxador

It's not just the MG that are strong at defense but also look at what posture the AI is playing for it's troops. Almost every game that I've played they always just use defense postures which makes them very bad at attacking. Sure they'll get up all in your grill with their units but they won't attack because they just LOVE to use postures that give them +30-75% defense but lower their attack by that same rate. So yea you might have a massive army outside your town but it'll hit like a wet noodle and will never attack you cause it has no attack rating.

Only time I've seen the AI use a attack posture is early in the game when it gets all out attack. After that it almost always switches over to defense or 'no retreat' posture and stays with that with all it's units.

Which means most of the time when I play the AI just shadows my units or gets really close and just looks at me all angry like but never does anything cause it can't attack

Yeah you might be right because this exactly is my experience :D.. I'm waiting for that all out epic grand war for a week playing and it ends up me chasing a technologically superior and a much larger force that just shuffles its troops in front of me before retreating and leaving me it's land mass before I win the game because of that.

EDIT: Vic did something to the AI in one of the last updates since I think it was too hard, maybe this was it. That it concentrates more on defense.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 7/24/2020 12:56:14 PM >

(in reply to Foxador)

Post #: 9

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 1:21:41 PM

Berks

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/18/2020
Status: offline

(Note everything below relates to AI behaviour on Extreme difficulty)

Interesting to read the posts above, as my own experience has been the AI favours using offensive postures.

It will still not attack that often, even in wars where it has Regiments vs Battalions. I suspect AI personality may have a lot to do with this, as I tend to end up in wars mostly against Militarist AI's?

I even once saw it not attack with an APC Division against 2 Battalions on open terrain!! Next turn, that Division was divided by artillery and rocket fire, and a motorized infantry regiment surrounded and finished it off.

The AI will put up a strong and sustained defence though. All of my late game wars against Majors have been won by slowly draining the AI's population through attrition (last war they started at 40% pop, and after inflicting many thousands of casualties per round, I won after their population depleted to 22% - they only lost one 80k pop city in that time, to Slavers of all people

- my own pop was growing at the rate of about 2k a turn)

As for Stratagems, I have found the military ones are no good - Call to Power etc seem to have way too high difficulty requirements. I think the most useful ones are the ones you get from your own factions actually. (Check the letterbox in the reports tab to find out which ones are coming from your factions)

(in reply to Sieppo)

Post #: 10

RE: Trying to better understand Strategems - 7/24/2020 7:26:51 PM

Foxador

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/5/2020
Status: offline

Well it also doesn't help that the call to power cards need a massive amount of PP to use, like call to power 3 needs about 150ish pp for such a minor effect of a small amount of troops going rebel. I tested it out with a cheat to see what would happen if I used a bunch of the call to power cards all in one turn, like 3 of each level, and the size of the troops that went rebel was still not that impressive for what would have cost me about 1k pp

(in reply to Berks)

Post #: 11