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Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets?

 
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Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 8:45:46 AM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/28/2020
Status: offline 		The private Scavenging operation in my city is providing plenty of Metal and Fuel, and only taking about ~30% of it for Private use (121:43 metal, 44:25 fuel). Is there any reason to nationalize it?

Will I suffer reduced efficiency if I nationalize it? Will I gain 100% of those resources for myself?

If I leave it alone, will it be wasting scavenging points on the private economy? Or is there some value in that?

What about trucking, if I've already built a Transport Hub elsewhere? Any purpose in nationalizing that now?

What about a private Ice mine? I already have more water than I need, but it does seems to be depleting the Ice reserves to generate 500:1500 pub:priv water. Is that 1500 private water going to waste, or is that what's feeding my private farm?

In short, what I'm asking is:
Are private industries a waste of finite resources, or are they a good way to fuel your local economy?
Post #: 1
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 9:37:31 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansLemurson
Are private industries a waste of finite resources, or are they a good way to fuel your local economy?


A waste. Yes, they get some extra private economy credits for doing so, but you're loosing resources forever. Of course if you have access to endless source of water (river/lake/glacier) then you shouldn't care about private water mine. Private metal mines IMHO a strict no-no.

Scavenging site ... It's a tough option. First it's expensive (and you already need to pay for Transport Hub sooner or later). Second it will reduce happiness. So IMHO if you have any other source of metal nearby (like another ruins) then better to leave them in private holding.

(in reply to HansLemurson)
Post #: 2
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 9:47:19 AM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/28/2020
Status: offline 		I have a neighboring ruin I'm exploiting, and just opened a metal mine, so I'm not hurting on Metal.

My planet's barren (Cold Seth), so the ice mines are potentially problematic, but I have another mine with 200k water sitting mothballed at the moment, so not worried there either.

What will be the consequence of leaving the Transport Hub private if I've already built a Truck Stop nearby?

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 3
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 11:24:12 AM   
jobu13

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2020
Status: offline 		With the Transport Hub, the only real disadvantage is that you won’t be able to upgrade it or build a truck station in that hex. Since you’ve already got another truck station nearby, this limitation might not matter, in which case you can just take the free logistics points and not worry about it.

As for the scavenging site, recycling centres can sometimes give you artifacts (free, powerful stratagems that typically give permanent bonuses to zones, leaders or units). I’ve never seen a private scavenging site do this, although I don’t know for sure if it’s impossible.

(in reply to HansLemurson)
Post #: 4
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 3:34:38 PM   
demiare

 

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Joined: 6/20/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jobu13
As for the scavenging site, recycling centres can sometimes give you artifacts (free, powerful stratagems that typically give permanent bonuses to zones, leaders or units).


ONLY on hexs with discovered artifacts (Economic Council do it). Not every ruin in game have artifacts, they're rare and precious.

(in reply to jobu13)
Post #: 5
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 4:40:23 PM   
jobu13

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2020
Status: offline 		It seems like working ruins which have artifacts makes it more likely for you discover them. That's just my experience, though. I'm not sure if the game actually works that way.

EDIT: According to the manual:

quote:

Without bonuses your chance per turn to discover an Archaeological Find
will be about 2,5% per Hex with Scavenge Points. If there is something to
be found, only a small number of Hexes actually contain buried artefacts.
This chance is modified based on the size (if any) of the Archaeological
Find.
It is modified upwards a lot by the presence of a Scavenging Asset.


It's not clear from this description whether it makes a difference if the asset is public or private, but I've personally never discovered artifacts in a ruin that had a private asset on it.

< Message edited by jobu13 -- 7/31/2020 4:42:56 PM >

(in reply to demiare)
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RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 7/31/2020 4:44:44 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jobu13

It seems like working ruins which have artifacts makes it more likely for you discover them. That's just my experience, though. I'm not sure if the game actually works that way.


AFAIK no, ruins are set to either have or not artifacts at game start (as when restarting game from previous save you will get them & archaeology stratagem CAN not find anything in that zone even if you have tons of virgin ruins here).

Scavenging only massively increase a chance to discover artifact if it's already present here (this is from game manual too). Still it's a chance, so you can be lucky enough to discover it with mere 2k-3k remains.

My own experience say that a single ruin will very rarely have an artifact, but if you're lucky enough to get a whole city of 6-10+ ruin hexs - I would prefer to allow them intact until I will roll a archaeology stratagem. Usually I'm finding at least one archaeology spot in that case.

(in reply to jobu13)
Post #: 7
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/2/2020 5:44:21 AM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/28/2020
Status: offline 		Maybe it's just because I've been embracing the Commerce profile, but it looks like the Level I private Scavenging is pulling in as many resources as my level II public Recycling.
[insert screenshot here]
They both seem to consume scavenge-points at the same rate, about 300 each per turn. Are scavenge-points just the total quantity of resources present?

Anyways, I'm flush with cash after selling off Rare Minerals when the price was high, so I'm thinking about nationalizing it to see what happens to its output.

I do kind of love the Industry that Private Light-Industry produces, especially since I'm free to augment that with my own factory.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 8
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/2/2020 7:41:49 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansLemurson

Maybe it's just because I've been embracing the Commerce profile, but it looks like the Level I private Scavenging is pulling in as many resources as my level II public Recycling.


Yes, Commerce buffing privates. But, hell, no, your Recycling is simply broken :P (lack workers? lack governor? after workers striker event?).

Basic PUBLIC output of scavenging community : 15 Fuel, 40 Metal (no rare metal!).
Basic output of level 2 Recycling : 60 Fuel 80 Metal 30 Rare.

You nee more then 100% private economy bonus to make them equal in Metal, while AFAIK Commerce provide only +80%. And they will be never equal in fuel. Yes, private industry is a nice bonus, but government buffing state one (including machines&hi-tech one!).

P.S. Try Government. Seriously. Single "Attract Free Folk" stratagem is better then most of Commerce tree (pro-tip: before using it change zone borders to get as much free folks as possible, yes, it's almost OP in mid-game+)...

(in reply to HansLemurson)
Post #: 9
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/3/2020 8:30:33 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		The general rules for Private assets are:
- Mining ones take the same amount of finite resources out of the ground, but you only get a very small cut. If these resources are limited, never hesistate to nationalize. If they are not limited, you can actually ignore public mining them entirely.
- If you can nationalize them, they always lock out a corresponding Public Asset. City hexes tend to be well defended (literally the last hex to fall) so even just having a spot in there can be worth a lot. Enough to nationalize.
- You do not pay upkeep. Private Workers are free for you. As is stuff like Water Consumption by Private Farms, Fuel by Truck Stops
- Logistics assets are worth nationalizing 99% of the time. The Position is worth almost anything. This is reinforced by certain beta changes (logistics emission is stopped by Logistics assets of the same kind).
- Farms are not worth Nationalizing 99% of the time. Suddenly you got to pay upkeep and the Private Economy will scramble to get a new Farm. And if you do not give them Emergency Food, they might actually lack the money for that and end up starving.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 8/3/2020 8:31:33 AM >

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 10
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/3/2020 8:53:02 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
This is reinforced by certain beta changes (logistics emission is stopped by Logistics assets of the same kind).


This change was discarded. Now logistics assets are re-packing all incoming logistic points - part of it is lost, but remaining LP are "renewed" and pushed out like a completely new (so they will be buffed by supply bases again and so on).

Honestly this mean you want to nationalize them in 100% times (ofk if you have credits for it) as difference between 50 truck move points (5 hex via dirt road before diminishing) and 100 truck move points (10 hexs) is HUGE.

< Message edited by demiare -- 8/3/2020 8:54:02 AM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 11
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/3/2020 10:30:45 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		I never nationalize farms, always nationalize logistics assets and dirty mineral thief assets as soon as I find out and execute the culprits.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 12
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/3/2020 11:00:52 AM   
HansLemurson

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/28/2020
Status: offline 		Yeah, the more I look at it, the better Nationalization becomes. I mean, except for farms.

< Message edited by HansLemurson -- 8/3/2020 11:34:06 AM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 13
RE: Any disadvantages to Nationalizing assets? - 8/3/2020 1:33:21 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
This is reinforced by certain beta changes (logistics emission is stopped by Logistics assets of the same kind).


This change was discarded. Now logistics assets are re-packing all incoming logistic points - part of it is lost, but remaining LP are "renewed" and pushed out like a completely new (so they will be buffed by supply bases again and so on).


The loss was reduced from 100% to 25% and somewhat offset with the AP refreshing. But otherwise it is still very much there.
You want to avoid weak (i.e. Private) Truckstops. They loose you 25% and reduce teh AP to the weak amount they produce.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 14
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