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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Game finished. Some questions.

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Game finished. Some questions. - 8/12/2020 12:14:06 PM

wobbleguts

Posts: 358
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline

Hi.

Just finished my first game of SC WW2. I was playing as Japan. Before the game I turned off Pearl Harbor/US nuke development etc. Also turned off the end date to see how things would develop. When I reached my build limit I switched to soft build. I also paid max MPPs to keep the USA out of the war for as long as possible.

This meant it was not a historical or realistic game. More a bit of fun - but it did help me get up to speed with the basic game play and rules.

Japan won big time (thanks mostly to soft build). Germany and Italy surrendered but Japan went on to conquer most of the world inc USA/Russia/UK/Western Europe (and anyone else I could steal MPPs from). Took a long time. Japan won in 1997.

Great fun. However there are a few things In the game that I don't fully understand. Firstly (and I have mentioned this before) the UK surrendered after I conquered Egypt. This is due to national morale points in the game rules, but I don't see why 'we will fight on the beaches, we will never surrender etc etc' would not be a factor in maintaining British resolve. The UK surrendering completely because they lose Egypt just doesn't seem right.

Secondly, I noticed early on in the game that I couldn't reinforce units efficiently outside of Japan. In China for example, If I had a unit with reduced strength (let's say 5), I either couldn't reinforce it - presumably because of supply etc - or if I could and selected the max option, the strength would generally only go up to 6 or 7. If I moved the unit back to Japan and reinforced there, selecting max always put their strength back to 10.

Obviously I understand why this is the case and don't have a problem with it. But when I occupied the UK, I could reinforce units there to max strength just as I could in Japan. This helped me a lot in the game when invading USA/Europe/Russia etc because I could send low strength units to the UK instead of all the way back to Japan. But why did the UK allow me to reinforce units in the same way as Japan. None of the other countries I defeated did this. Is it because the UK surrendered before I occupied it?

On the technology screen, there are a number of techs which I cannot research/improve on. Don't know what they are because there is no description. Is there any way I can research these or is it purely historical? I hoped spending on intelligence/spying would make them available but it didn't.

Are convoys only historical as well? After occupying North America and Europe I wanted to set up new convoy routes to transport their resources back to Japan. No option to do so and nothing in the manual says you can. Is it done automatically? If so why don't the new convoy lines appear on the map?

Finally (and this isn't related to game play), I did a double take when I saw the world map after Japan won. Japan 'liberated' the axis powers and went on to defeat Russia on it's own without any help whatsoever from Germany or Italy. But when the game was won (by Japan), Germany took control of Eastern Europe and Western Russia - ie, all the best bits. After all the sacrifices Japan endured and the fact they are now a world megapower they would never had handed these territories over. They would have told Germany to stick their territorial claims up their stupid leather shorts.

Great game though. Will read the rest of the manual before I start a new one.

Post #: 1

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/12/2020 4:20:18 PM

Xsillione

Posts: 212
Joined: 1/18/2019
Status: offline

The british surrender is a bit strange, but the morale system is good in general, in your case it is failed since Germany lost and so they should not fold for any amount of colonies (well, without colonies, they will not able to fight, and if you also took india, than they also run out of tea, so no reason to fight anymore.)

You can reinforce based on supply, most ports will only provide 8 as supply, and from there it will quickly diminish, but some cities are primary supply source, so they will provide supply always up to 10. Also with supply of 8 you should be able to fully reinforce, so you should be able to do it even in remote regions if you are next to a port in a big city.

Some tech are not activated in the WWII variant, like shell production and such, also some tech are not even used in any current variant.

You cannot setup convoys, the historical ones and the realistic ones are in, but you just lose some income from unexpected stuff, like european territories as japan. You still get the mpp production based on supply, which will be small, usually half of what you would get otherwise, but still something.

Yep, sometimes the scripts are broken, esp if you do something like a 50 year WWII...

(in reply to wobbleguts)

Post #: 2

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/12/2020 6:02:03 PM

LordOfPants

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/5/2018
Status: offline

Reinforcement is based on supply. You need to use the 'show supply' button at the bottom of the screen to see how much supply places have. Cities and ports get knocked down (usually to 0) when captured, most captured cities and ports provide at most 5 supply, your home cities provide 10, some other cities and ports supply 8. HQs provide better supply than they get, for example an HQ with a supply of 5 will provide 8 and it's shown as 5(8). Supply goes down by 1 (sometimes more) for each hex you are from a supply source. You don't need to bring units back home to repair them to full, you just need to get them in good supply. Units are also more effective when in good supply.

Britain surrendering when you captured Egypt is some kind of bug, did Germany take them over, then they moved their capital there? World map after a 1997 game is not really something I expect the devs to spend time fixing, lol.

(in reply to Xsillione)

Post #: 3

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/12/2020 10:57:54 PM

Platoonist

Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts
This is due to national morale points in the game rules, but I don't see why 'we will fight on the beaches, we will never surrender etc etc' would not be a factor in maintaining British resolve. The UK surrendering completely because they lose Egypt just doesn't seem right.

The "we will never surrender" speech by Churchill was great, soaring rhetoric but you have to keep in mind all the disasters that you inflicted on the British Empire in your game. From what you've described it sounds like you took Hong Kong, Singapore, Burma, Australia, New Zealand, the crown jewel of India, likely Persia and Iraq and then Egypt. Maybe some territories I haven't described. I'm also assuming you sank a good portion of the Royal Navy in the process. At some point Churchill and his party of incompetents get kicked out office for presiding over such a string of catastrophic defeats. No matter how lofty their speeches are. After all, Tojo lost his job over just losing Saipan. So, a new government coming into power in London choosing to make peace and cut its losses doesn't sound all that unrealistic to me.

quote:

Are convoys only historical as well? After occupying North America and Europe I wanted to set up new convoy routes to transport their resources back to Japan. No option to do so and nothing in the manual says you can. Is it done automatically? If so why don't the new convoy lines appear on the map?

I'm guessing the designers of this game never really anticipated a Japanese invasion of North America in a war that almost stretched into the 21st century, so that's why no US--Japan convoys. You probably did get a rich haul of MPPs I assume. Sure, global conquest is something you can achieve against the AI by editing the game, taking away the atomic option and ignoring build limits, but a takeover of the world by tiny Japan in a five decade war sounds like something no game could ever accurately simulate. It's just outside the scope of a game designed around what happened in 1939-1945. In the actual Pacific War by mid-1942 Japan was already stretched to its logistical and manpower limits. Which is why the Imperial Japanese Army opposed even an invasion of Australia.

quote:

Great game though. Will read the rest of the manual before I start a new one.

Sounds like you had fun. That's the important thing.

< Message edited by Platoonist -- 8/12/2020 11:32:02 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/13/2020 10:28:33 AM

wobbleguts

Posts: 358
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xsillione

Some tech are not activated in the WWII variant, like shell production and such, also some tech are not even used in any current variant.

That makes sense. Keep forgetting this game is a variant of a game system rather then a stand alone platform. Do all nations have the same tech options? Or are the techs available historical (eg, US and nukes)?

(in reply to Xsillione)

Post #: 5

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/13/2020 11:42:23 AM

wobbleguts

Posts: 358
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOfPants

Cities and ports get knocked down (usually to 0) when captured, most captured cities and ports provide at most 5 supply, your home cities provide 10.

As I suspected, this explains why the UK let me max reinforce as if I was in Japan. They surrendered when I conquered Egypt. I then occupied the UK peacefully without any fighting so the ports and cities were not damaged.

It's a shame you cannot upgrade ports and infrastructure in the game because supply is so important. When you click upgrade on a city/port/town all you can do is add AA. That is not realistic in my opinion. Mulberry harbours are a good example of how important supply was to troops. Wouldn't Japan or any other country upgrade/repair ports etc to increase supply?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOfPants

Britain surrendering when you captured Egypt is some kind of bug, did Germany take them over, then they moved their capital there? World map after a 1997 game is not really something I expect the devs to spend time fixing, lol.

Germany was defeated by the UK and Russia. They never got further then France. As Japan I conquered most (or all) of the British UK territories in Oceania/Asia/Middle East. Didn't touch most of UK Africa until the UK surrendered.

(in reply to LordOfPants)

Post #: 6

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/15/2020 2:42:01 PM

wobbleguts

Posts: 358
Joined: 5/31/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

The "we will never surrender" speech by Churchill was great, soaring rhetoric but you have to keep in mind all the disasters that you inflicted on the British Empire in your game. From what you've described it sounds like you took Hong Kong, Singapore, Burma, Australia, New Zealand, the crown jewel of India, likely Persia and Iraq and then Egypt. Maybe some territories I haven't described. I'm also assuming you sank a good portion of the Royal Navy in the process. At some point Churchill and his party of incompetents get kicked out office for presiding over such a string of catastrophic defeats. No matter how lofty their speeches are. After all, Tojo lost his job over just losing Saipan. So, a new government coming into power in London choosing to make peace and cut its losses doesn't sound all that unrealistic to me.

I accept what you are saying but I don't think the games morale rules (and your scenario above) are accurate when it comes to the UK. The UK hated Quislings and the populace would have despised any government suggesting capitulation. When they surrendered in my game, the UK was occupying part of Germany, still had control of Malta/Gibraltar/most of their African colonies and the UK itself hadn't been touched. Conquering Egypt at that point wouldn't lead to a UK surrender.

Then there is the US. The US were neutral but when I conquered Egypt and the UK surrendered they immediately declared war on Japan (late again). Obviously the US and UK were closely aligned, so why didn't the UK fight on waiting for the US to (eventually) join in?

When the UK was worried about a possible German invasion, they trained Home Guard volunteers to assassinate collaborators. These volunteers buried arms in the countryside and if the invasion happened their primary role was to kill British citizens who helped the Germans (that is how badly Britain hated Quislings). Had the Germans actually invaded, The men who volunteered were expected to be killed within a few days or weeks and they knew it. Despite this lots of civilians signed up.

Given all the above I doubt the UK would surrender because they lost Egypt. It's my opinion vs the games morale rules but I am right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

I'm guessing the designers of this game never really anticipated a Japanese invasion of North America in a war that almost stretched into the 21st century, so that's why no US--Japan convoys. lia.

Totally agree. My game got very silly and went on far too long. However the question was about Convoys in general and why you can't create them. You can change an existing convoys path but you can't add one if you conquer new territory. For example, I took India quite early in the game (which is just about plausible) and wanted to ship curries and Elephants back to Japan. Couldn't do it.

Not being able to add convoys or repair/upgrade city/port infrastructure to increase supply are my 2 major gripes after playing for the first time. Obviously this actually happened, but the game won't allow it.

Enjoyed it though. Very good game.

< Message edited by wobbleguts -- 8/16/2020 10:16:34 AM >

(in reply to wobbleguts)

Post #: 7

RE: Game finished. Some questions. - 8/17/2020 9:51:21 AM

BillRunacre

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

The loss of Egypt will have been only one factor among many for the UK's National Morale to fall to zero, so it's really best to just view it as the straw that broke the camel's back.

If the US had entered the war before then it would have helped the UK, but the US's continued neutrality means the UK didn't receive the 10,000 point National Morale boost their war entry would have brought them.

In terms of convoys, there are scripts for them and these have to be written before the game starts. But if there is no convoy from a country you have conquered/that has joined your side, this doesn't mean that you aren't receiving income from it, it just means that the income flow isn't represented by a convoy on the map. So your men will have enjoyed the fruits of conquest all the same.

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Post #: 8

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