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First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 3:51:30 AM

RolandRahn_MatrixForum

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline

Hi all,

I just started playing it (against the computer opponent)....2 campaigns as allies, one as Axis.

First game (Allies, 1939)

I made lots of mistakes.
France fell, Germany immediately DOWed Vichy France, after that it went after Spain and Portugal - resulting in me losing Gibraltar.

I was slowly pushing the Axis out of North Africa when the USSR joined in May 1942 and after that, it became a slaughter.

Finland fell quickly, the Germans screwed up royally - their attempts to encircle red army troops repeatedly resulted in armored and mechanized units being cut off behind my lines.

After lots of mistakes, Germany capitulated in late 1943, followed by Italy in 1944.

Second game (Allies, 1939)

I send more British troops to France, resulting in France not falling.

As France did not fall, Italy and the Axis minors never joined the war.

So, in May 1942, the USSR entered the war with most of the German forces on the western front....the rest is history.

Third Game (Axis, 1939)

From the two allied games, I learnt that the USSR will be unstoppable in 1942.

So, I did a semi-historic game - conquering Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Belgium, The Netherlands and finally Paris, triggering Vichy and the Italian entry into the Axis.

I did NOT go for Norway and I let the Italian Ground troops fend for themselves in North Africa.

I started Barbarossa in late April 1941.

Leningrad fell in late 1941, Moscow in February 1942.

D-Day happened on July 2nd, 1943.

The Soviet Union capitulated on July 30th (after I finally got that hex on (241,75)).

After that, the allies were kicked out quickly (from France) and I am not sure if I will continue this game....there is no way that the allies will be able to do a successful D-Day.

And declaring war on Iraq (and maybe Turkey) in order to push through the middle east and into Egypt doesn't sound like fun.

Here are my suggestions for AI improvements:

- If the Soviets push into Finland, Germany should either move enough troops into Finland to stop the red army or evacuate it's troops - anything else results in the loss of whatever Germany sends to Finland

- The Axis AI should not try a "Mediterranean" strategy. If France falls, it should NOT go after Vichy and Spain, but prepare Barbarossa - otherwise, the Axis might take Gibraltar, but Stalin will take Berlin.

- When the USSR falls (or is close to falling), it would make sense for the British to send troops to Persia. Mountainous Terrain, only one line of communication for the Axis - it is a far better use of resources than trying to liberate France.

- The Soviet AI repeatedly left important cities unguarded.
I was able to take Sevastopol by simply moving am armored corps into it.
After the fall of Moscow, Stalingrad became the new capital - and it was left empty. Again, I was able to simply walk in.
Furthermore, I was repeatedly able to overrun multiple air units - overrunning air units was the norm, not the exception. .

Other observations:

USS Bullhead was commissioned in late 1944. It doesn't make sense that the US has a SS Grp named "Bullhead" in September 1939.

Just my $0.02

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Post #: 1

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 9:13:18 AM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

Welcome to the game
Like all complex games, it's impossible to have a challenging AI unless you give it lots of buffs, though this one seems to be as good as any.
Dive into PvP but be aware that what works vs AI probably won't vs a person:)

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Post #: 2

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 10:55:12 AM

AP514

Posts: 176
Joined: 11/26/2001
From: Houston,TX ,USA
Status: offline

Too bad Game made now have such awful AI....it seems most games the AI is an after thought.
now it is all about the EYECANDY.......

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Post #: 3

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 1:42:28 PM

boldairade

Posts: 722
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

immediate solution to your AI issue:

play MP.

Best AI ever created.

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Post #: 4

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 2:30:47 PM

kennonlightfoot

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

As I have said in other posts, these type games like WarPlan are far to complex for any AI that a game company can afford to pay for to be even marginally competent. Scripted AI, which really isn't AI, only works if you are in a limited scenario where there aren't enough turns or room for the game to deviate from the limited options the script has. If you play something like the 1940 scenario and limit it to about 6-8 turns then the AI probably can give you a reasonable battle for France especially if you raise its bonuses to maximum. But these multi year campaigns can't be handled by a scripted AI. The scripts are out of synch with the situation after a dozen or so turns. After that you need "Strong AI" to handle such complex situations and "Strong AI" costs millions.

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Post #: 5

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 3:01:40 PM

RolandRahn_MatrixForum

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline

Well, once I have a better understanding of all the little things (when to use supply trucks, how to limit encirclements in early Barbarossa (I am currently playing the allies in the 1941 scenario) e.t.c., I might try MP.

And please don't get me wrong:

There are *lots* of things that I like with Warplan.

Especially the oil usage.

With Strategic Command, one would rail transfer slow moving units (leg infantry) and let armored/mechanized/motorized units march conventionally.

By comparison, Warplan is more realistic - you want to rail transfer motorized units to save oil.

I love the fact that leaders can die (and are then replaced).

And the ability to use of oilers and supply trucks is WONDERFUL.

So, if my prior post sounded a little too negative - maybe I shouldn't write late in the day after playing too long :-)

< Message edited by RolandRahn_MatrixForum -- 8/16/2020 3:02:50 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 4:50:59 PM

MVokt

Posts: 95
Joined: 7/1/2018
Status: offline

Massive encirclements are possible because a truly massive and unrealistic use of paratrooper units. This also happened in SC War in Europe. It's unrealistic and it wouldn't happen at all in real life.

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Post #: 7

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 7:06:31 PM

Cigar King

Posts: 80
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline

I'm not convinced this is a problem. Airborne units are very expensive and take a lot of time and resources to prepare. The Allies may be able to afford it, but, the Axis have better uses for their resources. Besides, the airborne are very weak if they are counter attacked.

Just my two Quatloos.

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Post #: 8

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/16/2020 10:02:49 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

Paras are being made more sensible in the next patch. Currently they can jump every turn because jumping does not cause loss of cohesion. They will in the patch.

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Post #: 9

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 4:05:43 AM

RolandRahn_MatrixForum

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
Status: offline

Just to prevent any misunderstanding:
I did not use paratroopers.

I remember using Paratroopers in HOI3.....it basically ruined the gameplay because the AI could not deal with them.

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Post #: 10

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 2:38:17 PM

kennonlightfoot

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RolandRahn_MatrixForum

Just to prevent any misunderstanding:
I did not use paratroopers.

I remember using Paratroopers in HOI3.....it basically ruined the gameplay because the AI could not deal with them.

There is a world of things the AI can't and never will be able to deal with. I suspect if I really wanted to I could take Berlin in 1940 with a few sneaky para drops along with marine landings. The AI doesn't have a concept of depth of defense. Scripts tend to push them forward toward objectives.

If you want to play the AI the best way is to set yourself some rules about not exploiting it's stupidity. No para drops behind its lines except as part of D-Day attack. No landings to cut off their supplies. No baiting their air force and navy to destroy it.

Probably needs a longer list. But generally it is just play it using historical strategy so you won't bypass its script logic.

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Post #: 11

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 3:15:57 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
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Having started in the 1970s playing Afrika Korps as the only 14 yr old I knew wargaming, I played hotseat before it was called that. I am wondering if there is a way to go back and forth between hotseat and AI (with some bonus, like 10% each experience/readiness). If the AI did something and it was not good gameplay, you could switch to hotseat, make corrections, and switch back resuming your AI game?

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Post #: 12

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 5:54:50 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Joined: 7/29/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

Having started in the 1970s playing Afrika Korps as the only 14 yr old I knew wargaming, I played hotseat before it was called that. I am wondering if there is a way to go back and forth between hotseat and AI (with some bonus, like 10% each experience/readiness). If the AI did something and it was not good gameplay, you could switch to hotseat, make corrections, and switch back resuming your AI game?

When the official comes try the North Africa scenario

That would be tough due to how the A.I. is coded. It might miss some A.I. orders and botch the front. Also my inexperience as a programmer made the code in a such a way changing it for this would create all sorts of problems.

This was literally the 1st time I wrote code in 30 years. I had to relearn everything.

Currently I am working on a 3rd project called Gamma, not to give anything away, and I can totally see the difference in my coding. Many times I am like "why the hell did I code this like this in WP".

I did look into it but there is no easy way to implement it.

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Post #: 13

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 6:50:19 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

Thanks for looking into it even.

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Post #: 14

RE: First observations from a newbie - 8/17/2020 9:44:47 PM

boldairade

Posts: 722
Joined: 1/15/2005
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