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The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes bleed

 
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The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes bleed - 8/27/2020 10:07:23 AM   
FOARP

 

Posts: 641
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		OK so I exaggerate, and I fully acknowledge that sources are very inconsistent, and ultimately what name a city is given in-game is a very minor consideration.

The first thing to get out of the way is that, except for Peking/Beijing, none of the names of the cities has actually changed since WW2. They still have the same names in Chinese, only the way they are transliterated into Roman script has changed, from primarily Wade-Giles/customary/"postal" system (which I'm going to call Wade-Giles for simplicity) to Hanyu Pinyin.

The names Shanghai, Nanjing, Tai'erzhuang, Wuhan, Chengdu, Nanning, Pingxing etc. are all written in Hanyu Pinyin. This is advantageous as it allows players to find the corresponding cities on modern maps. However, a number of cities have names written in Wade-Giles transliteration, which is inconsistent with the other city-names, and makes it hard for players to work out what the modern-day city name is. Additionally, Chinese-origin players are less likely to be able to identify them.

Examples and suggestions:

- Peking is Wade-Giles romanisation, but the city was officially known as Beiping (Peiping in Wade-Giles) at the time, after WW2 the name was changed back to Peking/Beijing. Suggestion -> change it to Beiping.

- Tientsin is Wade-Giles transliteration. Suggestion -> change it to Tianjin to be consistent with the Hanyu Pinyin city names.

- Chengdu is Hanyu Pinyin transliteration. At the time it was referred to as "Chengtu" under Wade-Giles transliteration. Same goes for Nanjing (Nanking in Wade-Giles). Suggestion -> keep as-is.

- Lanchow is Wade-Giles transliteration. Suggestion -> change to Lanzhou.

- Yenan is Wade-Giles. -> change to Yan'an

- Chungking is Wade-Giles -> change to Chongqing

- Tsingtao is Wade-Giles -> change to Qingdao

- Sian is Wade-Giles -> change to Xi'an

For cities outside China-proper in-game but currently part of China (e.g., Mukden - now Shenyang) I'm OK with not using Hanyu Pinyin to emphasise that these are outside of China. Similarly if there is a customary name that is heavily used still (e.g., Canton, Hong Kong etc.) these should be kept.

_____________________________

American Front: a Work-in-progress CSA v USA Turtledove mod for SC:WW1 can be seen here.
Post #: 1
RE: The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes... - 8/27/2020 11:32:22 AM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline 		100% correct, but it depends on your point of view. You're taking us to a crossroads between Transliteration vs Interpretation. The winners of wars draw the new maps, the makers of a game, tag the HTML label. I've reviewed your findings, and will accept your path.

What am I saying, examples:

1) I get lost, drive to a gas station in 2020 on my way to Boise, Idaho. There's no cell coverage East of the Blue Mountains. "Sir, could you help me get to the old Enterprise Highway, google maps has no coverage.". The attendant may tell me, "That's not the name anymore, you want Chavez Ravine Road, past the old bridge". New road name, old bridge, no war, should not be changed.

2) My Mother went to Jefferson Davis High School, it was renamed few years after she graduated in the in 1960s. Clearly this breaks the after-the-war rule naming to the losing side. The good news, there's nothing to argue, since the school (brick & mortar) was bulldozed, because it physically obsolete/old. Moot point.

3) Chinese military leader, General Tso, never ate General Tso's chicken. Qing Dynasty statesman coined the term, made that delicious sauce name stick. There are also variants, General T's or Husan Chicken. I prefer to keep it simple, I'll have a #9 with cold ice tea, no sugar.

My recommendation for you (you, could be singular or plural), go with the locals. When you take a trip to Memphis, Tennessee, take Elvis Presley Boulevard upto Beale Street. First restaurant on the right, is B.B. King's. When ordering you're dinner, don't waste your time getting into a discussion about "Baby Back Ribs", "St. Louis Style", "Spare" or "Tips". I'll take the ribs, cole slaw, & cold beer. If it's easier, just give me today's special. The Memphis Flippers do preform there, excellent skills. Blues music is special.

Thank you, thank you very much,
-EJR

Well, I nearly 'bout starved to death down in Memphis,
I run outta money and luck,
So I bought me a ride down to Macon, Georgia,
On a overloaded poultry truck,
I thumbed on down to Panama City,
Started checkin' out some o' them all night bars,
Hopin' I could make myself a dollar,
Makin' music on my guitar,
I got the same old story at them all night piers,
There ain't no room around here for a guitar man
We don't need a guitar man, son


(in reply to FOARP)
Post #: 2
RE: The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes... - 8/27/2020 12:06:52 PM   
FOARP

 

Posts: 641
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		I acknowledge that winners tend to rename everything, but the point here is consistency. Presently the names are all over the place: Some of the cities are given Hanyu pinyin-transliterated names (the post-WW2 system), some are given Wade-Giles transliterated names, some are given their historic names but some aren't etc.

_____________________________

American Front: a Work-in-progress CSA v USA Turtledove mod for SC:WW1 can be seen here.

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 3
RE: The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes... - 8/27/2020 12:37:13 PM   
ElvisJJonesRambo


Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FOARP

I acknowledge that winners tend to rename everything, but the point here is consistency. Presently the names are all over the place: Some of the cities are given Hanyu pinyin-transliterated names (the post-WW2 system), some are given Wade-Giles transliterated names, some are given their historic names but some aren't etc.


Which route you wanna go then? Hanyu pinyin or Wade/ J. Giles band? I've started petition drives before on the Patton is only a 7, and Vancouver, Washington should be strength 8 city. Las Vegas circa 1941 should only be a 5, if listed at all. The staff was very kind, said I could use the Editor to change Patton to whatever I wish. The Yorktown carrier can be edited to be brought in, not bought. (catchy huh, brought vs bought). This doesn't solve the problem for the stock default games.

I'm not sure Maps can be edited, so you could rename the Chinese cities. Anyone know if the Editor supports city renaming?

Mr. Atlas, you are now officially in charge of the Far East. I have enough problems figuring out Europe's names. I love to watch women's tennis, the flags confuse me when the player's take the court. Ukraine, Russia, Russia, Russia, Poland, is all I know. I don't bother learning the others.

Ivan Drago didn't get bogged down either with International contests, he said, "if he dies, he dies".

Yes, history is informative, but you don’t want to live in history. Tomorrow's events are the future's history.



< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 8/27/2020 12:57:03 PM >

(in reply to FOARP)
Post #: 4
RE: The Chinese romanisation in this game makes my eyes... - 8/28/2020 6:59:09 AM   
Erse

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/15/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Ivan Drago didn't get bogged down either with International contests, he said, "if he dies, he dies".

Yes, history is informative, but you don’t want to live in history. Tomorrow's events are the future's history.




Did I just read Elvis Presley quoting Rocky IV at people? Wild

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)
Post #: 5
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