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Possible 1st turn bug.

 
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Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 6:22:07 AM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		DBB Scen. 28, 1st turn for Japan attacking Manila.

Rules. Page 268 Special Rules. 18.1.6

Aircraft making a port attack on December 7th phase will attack ships 100% of the time if there are at least 10 ships in the port.

I have 2 runs of the first turn.

Morning Air attack on Manila, at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 54

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Pope, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Sagoland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AM Lark, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Seadragon, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Ethel Edwards, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT-34, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Salmon, Bomb hits 2

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

19 Shipyards destroyed as well. All subtitles and animations show attacking port only.

2nd run through.

Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
SS Saury, Bomb hits 1
TK Mindanao, Bomb hits 1

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
13 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
13 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

19 shipyard destroyed as well. Only 2 hits on ships????

Subtitles and animation show 50% + of the bombers were attacking the city...when as per rules they should only be attacking ships in this port.

Bug?


Post #: 1
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 9:30:40 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		You can confirm that every single air unit was tasked with only the Naval Attack mission?

Alfred

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 2
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 9:44:04 AM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Alfred,

I can confirm they were tasked with only Port Attack for that 1st turn.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 1:01:52 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Not a bug, a feature.

Port attacks and AF attacks always have a chance to "drift" off target and become city attacks. Happens all the time. Frequently you will see this on the Day 1 PH attack as it is so large. You will see it on other large attacks throughout the game.

This game teaches you that in war, you are never, ever in total control. That is by design, by the designer, GG.

Before you call a "bug" be sure you talk about it first. This game has millions of hours of game play. There are NO bugs left, only features. The word bug implies that it will be fixed, there are no more fixes coming.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 4
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 1:21:13 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		My heading does say "Possible Bug", which is asking the question.

My final comment also has a "?" after it, asking again, is this a bug. I never stated it is definitely a bug.

So let me ask another question.

If the rules state that 100% of the time ships will be attacked, why then does this not occur? Because the city, is a different animal to the port.

If the rule is incorrect then it would be nice it had been clarified at some stage.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 5
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 2:04:19 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Re your statement


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Port attacks and AF attacks always have a chance to "drift" off target and become city attacks. Happens all the time. Frequently you will see this on the Day 1 PH attack as it is so large. You will see it on other large attacks throughout the game.



I have no problem with your comments in bold. But the part where you see it happen on day 1...well why is there a rule stating that-

Aircraft making a port attack on December 7th phase will attack ships 100% of the time if there are at least 10 ships in the port.

This is in direct contradiction to your statement that you see it happen on day 1 and the inference it's a possibilty. I know you see can see it on day 1 from my first post. So is the rule incorrect?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 6
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 4:39:04 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Re your statement


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Port attacks and AF attacks always have a chance to "drift" off target and become city attacks. Happens all the time. Frequently you will see this on the Day 1 PH attack as it is so large. You will see it on other large attacks throughout the game.



I have no problem with your comments in bold. But the part where you see it happen on day 1...well why is there a rule stating that-

Aircraft making a port attack on December 7th phase will attack ships 100% of the time if there are at least 10 ships in the port.

This is in direct contradiction to your statement that you see it happen on day 1 and the inference it's a possibilty. I know you see can see it on day 1 from my first post. So is the rule incorrect?


Ships were attacked in both turns that you posted. I don't see the issue.

_____________________________

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CVB Langley:

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 7
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 5:07:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Re your statement


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Port attacks and AF attacks always have a chance to "drift" off target and become city attacks. Happens all the time. Frequently you will see this on the Day 1 PH attack as it is so large. You will see it on other large attacks throughout the game.



I have no problem with your comments in bold. But the part where you see it happen on day 1...well why is there a rule stating that-

Aircraft making a port attack on December 7th phase will attack ships 100% of the time if there are at least 10 ships in the port.

This is in direct contradiction to your statement that you see it happen on day 1 and the inference it's a possibilty. I know you see can see it on day 1 from my first post. So is the rule incorrect?

Also note that Alfred asked if they were set to Naval Attack, not Port Attack. Alfred rarely says anything imprecise, so I would expect that the "10 ships" rule applies to aircraft set to Naval Attack. That is counter-intuitive for ships disbanded in port, but it is called a first turn exception so just try that.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 8
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 6:35:49 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hi BBfanboy,

Ok, I gave that a try. Just ""naval attack" is no good, you can't nominate a port and well, I am guessing they just attack naval.

So I went with the primary mission as a naval attack and secondary mission as port attack targetting Manila. It seemed to work just fine in one test. I have to do more tests though because
sometimes just on port attack, they did all attack the ships as per my first post and other times they didn't.

I think though that is the secret, primary and secondary missions. I'll test more later as it's late.

However, Alfred and BB,


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 9
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 8:48:23 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline 		Okay, so this was my misinterpretation of the rule.

I thought it meant when aircraft will attack ships 100% of the time, that every aircraft squadron would target ships.

Apparently it seems to indicate that ships will be attacked 100% guaranteed, but not necessarily by all the aircraft.


(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 10
RE: Possible 1st turn bug. - 9/9/2020 10:53:38 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Okay, so this was my misinterpretation of the rule.

I thought it meant when aircraft will attack ships 100% of the time, that every aircraft squadron would target ships.

Apparently it seems to indicate that ships will be attacked 100% guaranteed, but not necessarily by all the aircraft.



Yes, that was my understanding of the rule as well. Few things are guaranteed in this game ...

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 11
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