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RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 6:47:17 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline 		Thanks

You mentioned the Peggy T. Okay due 5/1/44. 2 Nakajima 45 engines. Let's assume you have 500 of the engines. Start the research 12/8/41.

12/8/41 - 5/1/44 is 876 days. If everything goes right your 30 factory is repaired by 876 x 63% or 6/13/43.

Then research from 6/13/43 to 5/1/44 is 10.5 months. Divided by .02 repair per day

1 Factory - 11/19/44
2 Factory - 03/01/44
3 Factory - 12/05/43
4 Factory - 09/26/43
5 Factory - 09/08/43

seems closer to the sweet spot. should i do 5 factories? is it worth it? 1 factory certainly doesn't get you anything but immediate build at start date.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 31
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 7:18:56 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

Thanks

You mentioned the Peggy T. Okay due 5/1/44. 2 Nakajima 45 engines. Let's assume you have 500 of the engines. Start the research 12/8/41.

12/8/41 - 5/1/44 is 876 days. If everything goes right your 30 factory is repaired by 876 x 63% or 6/13/43.

Then research from 6/13/43 to 5/1/44 is 10.5 months. Divided by .02 repair per day

1 Factory - 11/19/44
2 Factory - 03/01/44
3 Factory - 12/05/43
4 Factory - 09/26/43
5 Factory - 09/08/43

seems closer to the sweet spot. should i do 5 factories? is it worth it? 1 factory certainly doesn't get you anything but immediate build at start date.



There’s something wrong with your calcs, the last bit where you divide by 0.02.
I haven’t had a coffee yet, but here is how I estimate research durations.
1 factory with 10.5 months to research with engine bonus will generate 2 points/day or about 60 points per month.
So it will advance research by a bit over 1 month every 2 months. Same as 2x size 30 factories.
Divide the 10.5 months by (1+X) with x=0.6 in this case for the 60 points/month, shortens the research duration to 6.5 months (saving 4 months).

1x30 factory in this Peggy T example should start production about 2.5 months earlier than standard.

Note that the research start date is an estimate, it could be plus or minus a few standard deviations from 13 Jun 43 due to die rolls.

The other thing to think about is how many you of this plane you want to build once research is complete.
If you want 150+ of these planes per month go for it, but you might not need that many.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 10/8/2020 7:27:15 PM >

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Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 32
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 7:27:44 PM   
alimentary

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline 		Something seems wrong with those estimated availability dates.

Research has a chance to move the availability date closer. It never moves it out.

One factory should get approximately 0.30 days of move-closer per day of elapsed time once it is fully repaired. 0.60 days of move-closer with the engine bonus.

If nominal availability is 10.5 months away, that's 1.6 days closer every day -- 0.6 from moving availability back and 1.0 from moving time-now forward.

So we divide 10.5 months by 1.6 days per day and get... 6.56 months. 6/13/43 plus 6.56 months is about 1/1/44.

Edit: Scooped by jdsrae


< Message edited by alimentary -- 10/8/2020 7:33:35 PM >

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 33
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 7:54:09 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline 		jdsrae thanks for the correction

i'll revise my excel spreadsheet and research more models

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 34
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 8:14:24 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline 		Something like this?

Research the A6M2-N Rufe to get the A6M5-C for example.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 35
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 8:22:28 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline 		Using that method Peggy T looks like this?

Seems to me you better have at least 2 factories on it




Attachment (1)

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 36
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 10:09:00 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		Nope those "Ready" dates are still wrong.

A formula for estimated “Ready” date based on these columns would be:
Ready date = “RD Done” + (Months / (1+(Research/Month)))

Rep/day: this column is actually showing estimated Research/month, eg: 0.3 per factory without engine bonus. It would be best to have a “no engine bonus” column and a separate “with engine bonus” area as you won’t get the engine bonus for all aircraft all the time.

Points: not sure what this column is for. You could delete it as it isn’t needed. 100 research points are needed to advance research by one month. One size 30 factory gives 1 point per day.
Days: the numbers shown here are still wrong, giving you incorrect "Ready" dates. The give away is 1 research factory giving you a “ready” date after the aircraft will arrive without research. You could delete this column.


< Message edited by jdsrae -- 10/8/2020 10:12:09 PM >

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 37
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 10:22:26 PM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae


A formula for estimated “Ready” date based on these columns would be:
Ready date = “RD Done” + (Months / (1+(Research/Month)))




perfect thanks

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 38
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/8/2020 11:15:34 PM   
alimentary

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline 		The table shows 0.6 / day with one factory (with engine bonus)

The key problem is that this ignores the 1.0 / day that you get for just sitting on your butt, getting one day closer to the availability date.

The Rep/Day column needs incremented by 1.0 to account for this.

The Points column which jdsrae could not interpret appears to be the number of days between RD done and nominal no-research availability.

With the corrected Rep/Day column, dividing "Points" by "Rep/Day" would yield the number of days after RD Done when the airframe is expected to become available. Which matches the formula which jdsrae has already provided, albeit scaled to months rather than to days.




(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 39
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/9/2020 12:41:11 AM   
RADM.Yamaguchi


Posts: 765
Joined: 6/30/2019
Status: offline 		alimentary you're pretty good at figuring things out.

That's the piece that was missing!

i have a feeling there are a lot of others here who have a much better spreadsheet

< Message edited by RADM.Yamaguchi -- 10/9/2020 12:42:45 AM >

(in reply to alimentary)
Post #: 40
RE: Most streamlined IJ PLANE research/building approac... - 10/9/2020 1:00:50 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Do you need the Peggy T? Do you need that many engines for it?

First the engine. Well, you need that engine for other aircraft that you need to research so that does not take to much to think about.

The Bombers? It is an ARMY aircraft with torpedoes as its first weapon, not bombs. So it is also the only ARMY aircraft with torpedoes which are designed to put holes into ships hulls and not bounce off decks. That makes it harder for things like battleships to stay afloat. The better part may be that on Low Nav with bombs, it does not get penalized. Against lighter ships from prewar CAs on down, bombs can work just as good as torpedoes and you get many more chances to hit. That should make it useful against invasion convoys and supporting convoys.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RADM.Yamaguchi)
Post #: 41
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