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RE: Variants and Options

 
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RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:00:31 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Nomad did the amends for the guys I am happy to do so if any other pairs want to try a game

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Post #: 31
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:14:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Looking for both balance and clarity feedback

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Post #: 32
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:15:16 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Nice possibilities Andy....GP

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Post #: 33
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:29:58 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I think I may include a lot of the variant options in my next scen 2 update (but not active) to make it easier to process variant options I think it more of a pain t6o do a big 200 point game than I thought it would be and if I had pre prepared scenario with ships and air groups even if inactive it would have made life easier to do the variants - is that fair Nomad ?

ie add in a load of ahistoric ships and air groups but inactive so that once they select the ships its easy to process them will just take a load from Ironman

Andy

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 34
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:42:07 PM   
Moltrey


Posts: 297
Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I probably missed the reference earlier in the thread Andy, but is this at all related to your Alternate scenarios over in the other thread? Guess I am kinda confused.
Having said that, I am all for any tweaks to enhance the accuracy of ship locations, etc, etc. at grand campaign start.

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Post #: 35
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:45:40 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		yup this is all about variants

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Post #: 36
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 3:54:28 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Soooo........two or three weeks of negotiations as a lead up to cementing what game two players are actually going to start?


Man, it really makes me glad I play solitaire.

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Post #: 37
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 4:00:54 PM   
Evoken

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Soooo........two or three weeks of negotiations as a lead up to cementing what game two players are actually going to start?


Man, it really makes me glad I play solitaire.

There is no negotiations , you agree on a budget and spend your points as you wish , with my opponent we got it done in a day. You dont even play pbem i dont know why you come up to the thread with negativity , have with with your solitaire

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Post #: 38
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 4:10:25 PM   
Nomad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I think I may include a lot of the variant options in my next scen 2 update (but not active) to make it easier to process variant options I think it more of a pain t6o do a big 200 point game than I thought it would be and if I had pre prepared scenario with ships and air groups even if inactive it would have made life easier to do the variants - is that fair Nomad ?

ie add in a load of ahistoric ships and air groups but inactive so that once they select the ships its easy to process them will just take a load from Ironman

Andy


Very, this is proving to be a lot of work.

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Post #: 39
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 4:17:23 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
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Status: offline 		If anyone wants to start a pbem with these variants , i am also available as a 3rd party editor to put your changes into the game.

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Post #: 40
RE: Variants and Options - 8/23/2021 10:18:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Made an update as hadnt fully appreciated how many aircraft comes with a CVB...

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Post #: 41
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 11:27:16 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Soooo........two or three weeks of negotiations as a lead up to cementing what game two players are actually going to start?


Man, it really makes me glad I play solitaire.

There is no negotiations , you agree on a budget and spend your points as you wish , with my opponent we got it done in a day. You dont even play pbem i dont know why you come up to the thread with negativity , have with with your solitaire


My comment was 'tongue in cheek'. Sorry for you that you aren't quick enough on the uptake to have figured that out.

So you apparently subscribe to the idiotic notion that because I am a white male any opinion I have on women or race relations is invalid and not allowed to be voiced?

Thanks for letting me know you stand with the leftist village idiots of the planet.

Soooo....the 'agreement' on the budget does not constitute a 'negotiation'?

Work on getting a clue.

Green Button ON.

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Hans


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 42
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 12:45:59 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Still looking for balance feedback played a couple of games myself but they were small 50 pointers where we both just added a little flavour ships and stuff nothing that materially impacted the game just let folks play a little differently or fix bug points for them

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 43
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 12:49:55 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Also if anyone has any ideas I like the conversion option but cannot see a way to score it

But if there are other variants folk want me to look at let me know

Always happy to add more I learned a lot from Evoken and deaniks picks they both did things I would never have considered and therefore led me to amend points !!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 44
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 3:12:19 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks Andy for an intriguing variant.

As Japan, I could see an early addition of cruisers and destroyers for a shot at AV....or a 1944 addition of Carriers timed with an early produced Sam....although waiting till 44 for your points to come into play seems like a big sacrifice/risk.

I would probably dump all the points into destroyers as that would suit my playstyle! I wonder what the long term fuel usage would look like?




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Post #: 45
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 6:07:03 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		Add a lot more oil in the Home Islands . . .

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Post #: 46
RE: Variants and Options - 8/24/2021 6:27:46 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Post 23 - 29 has the latest list which allows both of what Rangerjoe and Lowpe were suggesting

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Post #: 47
RE: Variants and Options - 8/25/2021 1:26:13 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks for letting me know you stand with the leftist village idiots of the planet.


That's politics.

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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 48
RE: Variants and Options - 8/25/2021 3:05:22 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Thanks for letting me know you stand with the leftist village idiots of the planet.


That's politics.



Yes it is. He shouldn't have brought his to the table if he didn't want to get his nose rubbed in it.

My response, though made in response to a bait, clearly violated the terms of service and I will gladly accept the suspension I deserve.

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Post #: 49
RE: Variants and Options - 8/25/2021 7:04:04 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Deleted the Ironman Aircraft as those are a step too far for variants and are really modders territory !!!

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 50
RE: Variants and Options - 8/25/2021 8:19:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

and I will gladly accept the suspension I deserve.


I don't think we need to go that far, most of us 'slip' once in a while.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 51
RE: Variants and Options - 8/26/2021 12:05:18 AM   
scondon87

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 6/3/2015
Status: offline 		This is a really cool innovation, even for a non-PBEM player like me. Was wondering if a fun wrinkle would be for it not being new points, but taking existing assets and changing them around as a way to introduce more uncertainty into what the opponents OOB looks like.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 52
RE: Variants and Options - 8/26/2021 2:21:23 AM   
deaniks

 

Posts: 399
Joined: 5/12/2019
Status: offline 		Andy, how would you feel off adding some points in there for maluses of the opponent? Say delay an (aircraft start by 3 month's arrival date can't be later than 12/45) or -25 PP per day max of once or twice up to you. Or even delay a ship date by one month can only be picked once? Something along those lines or can be even eviler, remove a div your opponent added now something like that is at risk right spending point's on something your opponent might have added is just some idea's.

(in reply to scondon87)
Post #: 53
RE: Variants and Options - 8/26/2021 3:33:50 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		How could the opponent control the other sides production and deployment schedules? If you want to change things, do a mod.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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― Julia Child


(in reply to deaniks)
Post #: 54
RE: Variants and Options - 8/26/2021 8:59:26 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I get what you are saying but this is a 2 or 3 year real time game where the journey is more important than the outcome and the variants are supposed to be about giving players a little flavour or bespoking it to play like they want with a few toy it to be not about picking the optimimum to win or damage your opponent - so I think I will stick to additive variants because if I was committing to a game and discovered on turn 1 that my opponent has removed the toys I wanted to play with I would be pissed

e.g. +25 PP's I tend to pick that because for me its immersive to have my Divisions belong to the proper Corps - it isnt about releasing Divisions quicker its about making sure that my org structure in game is neat its an OCD thing for me

So if I take extra PP's to allow me to do that and my opponent prevented it I would be very unhappy.

So for me it defeats the purpose of what is supposed to be a bit of fun - I hope that makes sense



quote:

ORIGINAL: deaniks

Andy, how would you feel off adding some points in there for maluses of the opponent? Say delay an (aircraft start by 3 month's arrival date can't be later than 12/45) or -25 PP per day max of once or twice up to you. Or even delay a ship date by one month can only be picked once? Something along those lines or can be even eviler, remove a div your opponent added now something like that is at risk right spending point's on something your opponent might have added is just some idea's.


(in reply to deaniks)
Post #: 55
RE: Variants and Options - 8/26/2021 2:27:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		How would a player like it if the opponent cut their PPs when they did not increase theirs? How about decreasing the Japanese fuel, oil and supply situation from the beginning? How much fun would that be for the Japanese player? How long would the Japanese player continue? How many Japanese players would you get after doing that?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 56
RE: Variants and Options - 8/31/2021 12:45:10 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		One that just came to me would be to raise the night experience levels for major Allied warships (CA, BC, BB) or maybe include those plentiful CLs and larger by 20 to 25 points. This would be for the at start and through '42. I just got BB North Carolina in mid-42 and hope she does not see any night time surface combat for some time.

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Post #: 57
RE: Variants and Options - 8/31/2021 2:28:41 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		I am just starting a game with this variant rule against Nomad - we picked 100 points and had our choices done in 2 days -- I was the slow poke as I had never done this before and as Japan there are a lot of interesting choices... Problem for a lot of the 'extra' choices is that Japan has to build them all (whereas the Allies do not) so you have to be careful. As for adding tons of oil, you can only add 1 50 point oil source max... And its expensive - 5 points (one of the most expensive picks on the list).

I like the idea as you can take what your side offers and adjust for your play style and known weaknesses... If you always lose a couple CVs to be being too aggressive, well then you can add a couple more into the queue and so forth. I picked several choices to offset my known game weaknesses - and several just because they seem to great to pass up... only time will tell with those.

I am considering running an AAR opposite Nomad but haven't decided yet. AARs are always interesting in the beginning but often peter out after a few months.

Xargun

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 58
RE: Variants and Options - 8/31/2021 6:28:36 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

I am just starting a game with this variant rule against Nomad - we picked 100 points and had our choices done in 2 days -- I was the slow poke as I had never done this before and as Japan there are a lot of interesting choices... Problem for a lot of the 'extra' choices is that Japan has to build them all (whereas the Allies do not) so you have to be careful. As for adding tons of oil, you can only add 1 50 point oil source max... And its expensive - 5 points (one of the most expensive picks on the list).

I like the idea as you can take what your side offers and adjust for your play style and known weaknesses... If you always lose a couple CVs to be being too aggressive, well then you can add a couple more into the queue and so forth. I picked several choices to offset my known game weaknesses - and several just because they seem to great to pass up... only time will tell with those.

I am considering running an AAR opposite Nomad but haven't decided yet. AARs are always interesting in the beginning but often peter out after a few months.

Xargun


Xargun has a good point on ship building , i believe putting ships in a task force doesnt count towards shipyard requirement for Japan. I believe this is a good solution;
1) Doesnt put strain on Japanese economy
2) Japanese player cant accelerate ships bought with points , would be more balanced

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 59
RE: Variants and Options - 9/2/2021 3:19:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline


Idea 1:

Japanese High Command noted the effectiveness of the Allied 40mm AA guns throughout the war...and decided they need to accelerate the adoption of their own 40mm AA gun.

The 40mm T05AA gun, normally slated to arrive in 9/45 has been accelerated by throwing men and material into its program.

Have two purchase points:

1. Activation is now Jan 1945
2. Activation is now April 1944

Idea 2

Japan accelerates the development of aerial radars:

Accelerate all aerial radars by six months.










(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 60
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