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Advise on what components to buy for DIY built computer - 8/11/2003 10:37:27 PM

Strat

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Well my aging PC is about to get scaped, I'm keeping the CD rewriter cause it is new and the Monitor, although aging, has a refresh rate of 80hz.

The only criteria is it needs to be fast with more than capable graphic ability so my son can still play his graphic intensive 3D shoot em up's. I bought him Medal of Honor last Christmas and he still has not played it because this system is not up to it.

So if you were going to build your own PC and had a budget of around �700 ($1100 to $1200 I think).
What would you buy to get the very best system for the money available?

Your thought's please.

Thanks

Strat.

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Post #: 1

- 8/11/2003 11:57:27 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Part of what you get will be determined by where you are.

In Canada, I do my business with Canada Computers

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.html

They have great prices and even ship COD in Canada.

As for actual parts, my feelings lean towards getting a good video card of course. But your system will need a good processor and definitely a lot of RAM especially if anyone is going to be playing kickin 3d games on it.

Trouble is you often need this which requires that which forces you to buy the other thing.
Depends how old your current set up is.

700 bucks (Canadian) is close to a full case upgrade. By case upgrade I mean everything but drives.

The last time I upgraded I took the hard drive, the floppy and cd burner and just put it in a new case.
There is a certain amount of cost thresshold when buying parts of course. A 700 dollar upgrade today, will be the same as a 700 dollar upgrade in 6 months as far as spending 700 bucks is concerned ie you will be out 700 bucks hehe.

Aim for getting as good a system as possible ie basic case set up ie motherboard, processor and ram. The better the case, the more ease you will have in putting anything in it later.
As for video cards, well you could drop 700 bucks on just a video card.

PS, before you get the impression I am knowledge in the extreme, I am more or less giving my opinion based on observing my constantly upgrading buddies.

If I was to take my 800 Celeron with 256 ram to the next step, I would like begin by aiming to make this a P4 equal and try for a gig of ram. I would probably need a new mother board in the process.
Currently I have a 32 meg PCI Radeon 7000 and a hohum sound card. It won't play anything cutting edge 3d worth squat, but I am not into that at any rate so I haven't that worry.

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Post #: 2

- 8/12/2003 1:10:37 AM

Strat

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I live in England so things tend to be a litlle more expensive here, generally just change the USA $ for a � sign. So a $150 motherboard will actually cost me nearer $200 after rate conversion.

Also I am led to believe that American hardware runs on a differant frequency to europe and is therefore not compatable, can anybody confirm this?

I will be looking for P4 or simular with 400Mhz FSB minimum with a CPU of around the 2.5Ghz mark. Prefer AMD as you do seem to get more power for your money but don't really mind as long as it can operate WinXP professional cause I just picked up a copy for �20, only 3 weeks old with reciept because the shop would not give the chap a cash refund, result.
WinXP PRO is over �250 in England and the Home edition is still �80.

What I really would like to know are your personel preferances of the component parts that you all would buy for yourself's.

ie, MSI Geforce FX 5800 DDR2 128mb graphics card along with ????motherboard etc.

I'm interested in what people think is the best that money can buy while keeping to the �700 budget.
Don't need a moniter or any drives.

Thanks again

Strat..

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Post #: 3

- 8/12/2003 1:58:09 AM

Paul Vebber

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I recently bought new guts (Main board, video and memory).

I got an MSI K7N2-L (currently ~85US$) with an AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (~90US$) (Going to a 2800+ is +100US$ to little benefit)

I went with a Radeon 9600 Pro (~170US$) again as the price/performance sweet spot. For strict performance I would hav matched the K7N2 nVidia chipset with an MSI nVidia 5600, which is about the same price, but I hav had better luck with Radeon drivers and am willing to sacrifice a little synergistic/latest DX superoptimization speed, for what for me is better compatibility with old stuff. (Also in a machine I do alot of testing on, a little mix and match helps)

I got one 512 MB PC2700 stick with the above for about 100US$ (high) and got a second from Best Buy on a rebate deal for $39.99.

I used the existing 400Watt powered minitower and array of HDs.

I bought a few months ago from a local shop I like to support (and when prices were a bit higher) so the above in total cost me a nearly $550. Now you should be able to get the same stuff for a good bit under 500US$

I like the MSI mainboards - they offer online BIOS updates, every overclocking tweak you could possibly want (though i run mine stock), good reliability ( we had problems with our Matrix servers with ASUS boards and the MSI replacements have all been rock solid. The AMD processors are good bit cheaper than INTEL counterparts. The on board 5.1 sound from the nVidia chipset rocks my Boston acoustics home theater sound system. (the k7n2-L has software vice hardware DSP - if that matters go for the pricier K7N2's that have the hardware DSP - about 50-60US$ premium. The 10 dollar riser give you an optical TOSlink out to home audio-vice PC speaker systems.

In your price range you can go to the better (hardware DSP main board, and a 2800+ (or even 3000+ but they are like 275US$) but I would put the extra money in bigger (more) HDs, or if audiophile sound is a priority an Audigy sound card.

If you are replacing your case - make sure it has a 400+ watt power supply and at least 2 case fans(plus the Power supply fan) AMD chips do tend to run hot and can go squirrelly when too hot.

I'm VERY happy with what I got for the money...

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Post #: 4

- 8/12/2003 5:45:40 AM

Marc von Martial

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Yep, I can also only recommend MSI parts. They�re the way to go. Price value is exceptional. The have great bundles too. Especially the graphic cards, you get a whole lot of free games with them :D. The motherboards come with free lates PowerDVD or WinDVD4 and a whole set of others apps.

I would recommend the MSI K7-N2G board, simply awesome. The BIOS support by MSI is exceptional, not to mention the nice online update system they have.

I personally have the K7N2G-ILSR version, I can only recommend it.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=398

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Post #: 5

- 8/12/2003 5:55:48 AM

Fallschirmjager

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[url]www.pricewatch.com[/url]

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Post #: 6

Rip-off Britain (again) - 8/13/2003 12:40:27 AM

Blunderbuss

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Thanks for the link, Falls. Those prices are incredibly low compared with the shop prices in the UK.

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Post #: 7

Re: Rip-off Britain (again) - 8/13/2003 12:44:25 AM

Fallschirmjager

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blunderbuss
[B]Thanks for the link, Falls. Those prices are incredibly low compared with the shop prices in the UK. [/B][/QUOTE]

Be careful...some of those companies are good...some are bad
They just take a product and show you all of the companies selling it

Make sure you are aware of who is going to be selling it to you...and what you are buying

Also...
Most of those companies are here in the states
Shipping might be pricey

Its an excellent site....just be a wary shopper when buying from a company on there

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Post #: 8

- 8/13/2003 4:56:41 AM

Bobthehatchit

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Go intel for the mb and a P4 cpu.

Ati and geforce cards are always level pregging so it just a question of personal taste, and don't skimp on the DDR.

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Post #: 9

- 8/13/2003 5:04:47 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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I learned something a while back actually. A friend bought a new game that supposedly exceeded his machine at the time.

But he had Ram coming out of his ears so to speak.

Ram won't fix everything of course, but you can likely always use MORE ram. As he was able to play the game, and mainly because his Ram clobbered the games requirements.

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- 8/13/2003 5:17:31 AM

Marc von Martial

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[QUOTE]Go intel for the mb and a P4 cpu.[/QUOTE]

Why would you want to do that?

Talking RAM, get quality brand RAM , like Kingston or Infineon, that "cheap" stuff (it isn�t actually much cheaper) only gives you more grief if you have bad luck.

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Post #: 11

- 8/13/2003 5:18:17 AM

Bobthehatchit

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]I learned something a while back actually. A friend bought a new game that supposedly exceeded his machine at the time.

But he had Ram coming out of his ears so to speak.

Ram won't fix everything of course, but you can likely always use MORE ram. As he was able to play the game, and mainly because his Ram clobbered the games requirements. [/B][/QUOTE]

True thought its better to have more ram and a smaller cpu the a massive cpu and only 128mb of ram.

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Post #: 12

- 8/13/2003 11:42:18 PM

Blunderbuss

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobthehatchit
[B]True thought its better to have more ram and a smaller cpu the a massive cpu and only 128mb of ram. [/B][/QUOTE]

:( The maximum amount of memory my computer can handle is 1 GB. It seemed like a massive amount when I bought it, but it looks as if it's going to be exceeded by the latest games requirements in a fairly short space of time.

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Post #: 13

- 8/13/2003 11:46:17 PM

wodin

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As stated earlier go with MSI.

I always buy video cards by MSI and I am at present wanting a new motherboard and ram.

Wodin

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Post #: 14

- 8/14/2003 1:52:40 PM

BrubakerII

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck
[B]Why would you want to do that?

Talking RAM, get quality brand RAM , like Kingston or Infineon, that "cheap" stuff (it isn�t actually much cheaper) only gives you more grief if you have bad luck. [/B][/QUOTE]

Agree on the Ram!!!

Marc a couple of points/questions. I have been a Athlon kinda guy for a few years now, but am considering moving back to Intel for my next upgrade (board/chip/ram/gfx). This is because it seems to me that Intel have the edge at present in bandwidth and also require fans that aren't parts listed for a 747 ;) I do agree they are unneceesarily dear. For my mind I thought something in the 2.4Ghz category seems reasonable value for money. Is there a reason you think Athlon are the better buy right at this point of time?

On motherboards, I too have had good experince with MSI but am fervently reading the different comparisons around in relation to the chip mentioned above. Aus magazines seem to favour the Abit IC7 and IS7 range of boards over the MSI - both in quality, functionality and price. Do you have an opinion on that?

Thanks in advance.

Brubaker

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Post #: 15

- 8/15/2003 9:56:09 PM

Bobthehatchit

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrubakerII
[B]Agree on the Ram!!!

Marc a couple of points/questions. I have been a Athlon kinda guy for a few years now, but am considering moving back to Intel for my next upgrade (board/chip/ram/gfx). This is because it seems to me that Intel have the edge at present in bandwidth and also require fans that aren't parts listed for a 747 ;) I do agree they are unneceesarily dear. For my mind I thought something in the 2.4Ghz category seems reasonable value for money. Is there a reason you think Athlon are the better buy right at this point of time?

On motherboards, I too have had good experince with MSI but am fervently reading the different comparisons around in relation to the chip mentioned above. Aus magazines seem to favour the Abit IC7 and IS7 range of boards over the MSI - both in quality, functionality and price. Do you have an opinion on that?

Thanks in advance.

Brubaker [/B][/QUOTE]

Had an abit board with on board raid controllers, not serail ports, very flash very unstable....

Runing an intel p4 gbv board with the same cpu and ram and it runs like a dream.

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Post #: 16

- 8/16/2003 7:33:59 AM

BrubakerII

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobthehatchit
[B]Runing an intel p4 gbv board with the same cpu and ram and it runs like a dream. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Bob

What exactly is a gbv board?

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Post #: 17

- 8/16/2003 11:17:10 PM

Bobthehatchit

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrubakerII
[B]Hi Bob

What exactly is a gbv board? [/B][/QUOTE]

"MainBoard Intel 845 GBV".

Its the model of the board mate.

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Post #: 18

- 8/17/2003 1:17:58 AM

Karnaaj

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Last time I looked, a couple weeks ago, a 2.4mHz P4 was running roughly (and I do mean "roughly" - I usually figure a 10-15% "slop" for parts-pricing for meself) $200 US at TigerDirect, whilst at NewEgg about the same buckage would get a 2.6 or mebbe a little better... I'll be checking on prices more often as I get money scraped together.

My next boxen will be parted - I *think* I have a new power-supply (cutting a deal with someone, once I hear back from 'em), but despite the uncoolness factor of having a case that's been dropped and is all bent up (no side panels and "CRIME SCENE DO NOT CROSS" tape wrapped around it; makes for weird colours when the cold-cathode goes on. [And I only have the cold-cathode light because I won it in a giveaway - what, spend money to rice up this $#!+box? ]), I think I'll do a new case as well. About $200ish US on a CPU, at least a gig of DDR, $200ish on a videocard (nVidia), and maybe a DVD-burner if I like the prices. Pop out the drives, SoundBlaster, NIC and modem, and slap the mess together. Then, I can do about the same popping on my brother's box, and he'll be upgraded. (Actually, pop everything out of *his* [not-trashed] case, and pop all the better stuff [mobo/CPU/RAM/etc] back in. Slop the leftovers into the scrapped-box, and drag it over to a friend's house. "Need parts?" )

Wheee...

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Post #: 19

- 8/17/2003 9:33:52 AM

BrubakerII

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Roger Bob - gottit :rolleyes: ;)

Brubaker

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Post #: 20

- 8/17/2003 3:35:27 PM

msaario

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Don't forget an ample supply of USB 2.0 and Firewire ports!

Everything seems to be going to USB 2.0 these days and the FW is used to connect a DV video camera (if you got one, that is).

If you can still find the Radeon 9500 Pro - get it! It's cheaper and faster than the 9600 Pro (ATI saves $$$ on manufacturing).

--Mikko

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Post #: 21

- 8/20/2003 4:58:52 AM

Strat

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Ok, think I'll go with MSI mobo but still looking at specs.
Raid. can someone tell me what Raid is?

keep em coming although I'm probably already sold.

Strat..

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Post #: 22

- 8/20/2003 6:21:03 AM

Fallschirmjager

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strat
[B]
Raid. can someone tell me what Raid is?
[/B][/QUOTE]

WMD for wasps, bees , hornets and ants
Comes in a can
will run you about $7
Spraying device included

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Post #: 23

- 8/20/2003 4:08:10 PM

BrubakerII

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
[B]WMD for wasps, bees , hornets and ants
Comes in a can
will run you about $7
Spraying device included [/B][/QUOTE]

Boom Boom! :cool:

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Post #: 24

- 8/20/2003 4:28:01 PM

Belisarius

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strat
[B]Ok, think I'll go with MSI mobo but still looking at specs.
Raid. can someone tell me what Raid is?

keep em coming although I'm probably already sold.

Strat.. [/B][/QUOTE]

There's Raid0, Raid1,...., Raid5. Basically it's the ability to parallell run your HD's for either optimized speed, data security if a drive fails or just lots of storage. The downside is that it does require identical drives, and at least 2 of them.... 4 (I think) for a Raid5 array.

A link for some good intro on RAID:

[URL=http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20020813/index.html]Tom's harware guide IDE course part 2: RAID[/URL]

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Post #: 25

- 8/20/2003 8:07:16 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Heads up on Tigerdirect.

Consider this heresay if you wish, but I had someone mention their site so I looked into it.

On the surface they look ordinary, might even be ordinary. But when I mentioned it to my friend who has extensive experience with buying online, all I got was a torent of bad news about Tigerdirect.

Poof their bookmark died in a second.

One of my standard operating rules is when my smarter computer buddies tell me something, it pays to listen.

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Post #: 26

- 8/21/2003 9:09:26 AM

junk2drive

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I have purchased from [url]www.allstarshop.com[/url] with great results, and have heard good things about newegg.com and googlegear.com. all three have high ratings with bizrate.
allstar emails me a confirmation, then a ups tracking number. quick service, their webpage tells you if it is stock, etc.

[url]www.pcmech.com[/url] forums will give u lots of things that go wrong. thats how i learned.

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Post #: 27

- 8/21/2003 9:16:30 AM

Karnaaj

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Never had a prob with them meself, but Your Mileage May Vary.

If you have the buckage (but being wargamers it's bloody unlikely ) you can always go with a complete hi-performance box from Alienware or someone; burned in, tech support, recovery discs, parts that like each other... of course, you can build a couple-three decent machines for the price of one of the bleeding-edge screamers. Personally, I can live behind the power-curve; it's kinda nice to have a working box when people I know are frantically trying to figure out if it was the overclocking, the beta (or *alpha* ) drivers, or the breed of the chicken they've sacrificed to get it all working in the first place...

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Post #: 28

- 8/21/2003 8:54:47 PM

Bobthehatchit

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Post #: 29

Not an expert but, - 8/21/2003 9:35:32 PM

moore4807

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My .02$

If you are saving your drives - it sounds like you have some experience inside the "box". This will save you a lot of money opposed to buying a whole new system. I have built 5 systems including 2 business systems (3 P4's and 2 AMD)

1) Buy your parts from one retailer at one time -save on shipping.

2) on-line retailers are good if you are not shipping internationally otherwise look at home retailers or English on-line dealers. (NewEgg is my personal favorite in USA -good prices/fast shipping/good on returns)

3) I used MSI mobo's for the AMD systems, switched to Asus for the P4 systems - I like the Asus mobo's much better (easier to fine tune or overclock) but there was nothing wrong with the MSI boards either.

4) I dont have a preference on Video cards anymore - its too hard keeping up with the joneses! Nvidia FX5800 is DX9 and sub-$200 128mb is more than enough for the next couple of years. ATI Radeon is just as good (9600 I think is the best price/performance according to ExtremeTech site)

5) Consider getting a barebones unit if you dont want the hassle of installing the chipset and motherboard - then add in the parts you want, (HD, drives, video) it may be the way to go for you.

6) RAM is cheap -Buy it! As stated by others here. DO NOT buy a mobo that doesn't allow for 2GB of DDR Ram. I'm running a 2.4Ghz P4 homebuild with 1.25GB of Ram - it smokes!

7) Some local computer shops may have what you want, and helpful people to get it done right. ( Dont be afraid to walk out - if the alarmed feeling or neck hairs start to rise - trust your instincts and leave NOW) but good people also exist and helped me immensely getting on my feet with computers.

8) As far as AMD/P4 choices? AMD is cheaper but the CPU runs hotter = more fans to keep cool, maybe more noise. P4 is stable and more choices in mobo's otherwise it doesn't really make a difference to me...

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