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Turn duration - 11/16/2020 10:09:29 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
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Hi, just would like to know if the turn duration is improved with a much better PC or if it will take time anyway (i.e. it's like that by construction).

On a large planet with many AI opponents it can take quite a long time on my typewriter.
thx

Post #: 1

RE: Turn duration - 11/16/2020 10:37:20 AM

jimwinsor

Posts: 1076
Joined: 11/21/2005
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FWIW, it seems AI turn length is longer with the new beta, and since I am planning on streaming it today I went ahead and clocked it for timing purposes: on my system, the average AI turn time for a large planet is just under 2 minutes.

IMO, this is a small price to pay to have a reasonably competent AI in the game. But if it could be improved without sacrificing AI quality that would of course be most welcome.

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Post #: 2

RE: Turn duration - 11/16/2020 10:46:52 AM

mroyer

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

Hmmm... we could do study

Post a .se1 file here to act as a standard.
Then to participate, a person would

(1) download the file,
(2) advance the turn (only, don't do anything else),
(3) time the AI playing time,
(4) post time and computer stats and OS back here.

It would be interesting to see the variation.
-Mark R.

(in reply to jimwinsor)

Post #: 3

RE: Turn duration - 11/16/2020 3:58:10 PM

KingHalford

Posts: 488
Joined: 8/18/2016
Status: offline

I've noticed the AI turn times have increased dramatically since I last played a month ago. I'd estimate that they're somewhere between 3 and 4 times longer than they were. Before I'd rarely wait longer than a minute on even large maps. Now I'm waiting five minutes on medium ones just 50 turns in, and my CPU is pretty monsterous.

I'm not sure which patch caused it but it's clear that something has increased them.

< Message edited by KingHalford -- 11/16/2020 4:00:58 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Turn duration - 11/16/2020 5:05:04 PM

pauls2271

Posts: 42
Joined: 4/10/2020
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quote:

but it's clear that something has increased them.

I noticed if I used the new option "Survival Stress" that turns took a lot longer.

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Post #: 5

RE: Turn duration - 11/16/2020 5:18:53 PM

KingHalford

Posts: 488
Joined: 8/18/2016
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Before people get too concerned, this happened before just after a big update and Vic fixed it up pretty quickly.

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Post #: 6

RE: Turn duration - 11/17/2020 8:59:44 PM

jimwinsor

Posts: 1076
Joined: 11/21/2005
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I wonder if it would be possible to allow the player to access and read the reports while the AI is thinking?

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Post #: 7

RE: Turn duration - 11/17/2020 10:03:08 PM

Daza99

Posts: 285
Joined: 8/1/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mroyer

Hmmm... we could do study
Post a .se1 file here to act as a standard.
Then to participate, a person would

(1) download the file,
(2) advance the turn (only, don't do anything else),
(3) time the AI playing time,
(4) post time and computer stats and OS back here.

It would be interesting to see the variation.
-Mark R.

This is a good idea

(in reply to mroyer)

Post #: 8

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 3:13:02 AM

Atomikkrab

Posts: 28
Joined: 8/4/2020
Status: offline

Vic even mentioned it in the patch notes. He did something to the AI to improve its performance, at the downside of the turns taking longer because of more calculations. I would just say go make a snack and wait.

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Post #: 9

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 8:24:01 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

OK guys, attached is a benchmark file for the test.
Just load the file and directly press 'end turn'. And measure the time.

This test might be helpful for VIC, therefore in fine for us all too so participate in large number.

On my 10-year old laptop-type-writter it took:
00:06:13 with 1.05 beta 11
and
00:03:23 with 1.05 beta 13

to complete the turn.

My config:
Laptop Samsung
i5 3210M @2.5ghz
8GB RAM
64bit Win10
GPU: HD4000

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wwhtzbvn4r7xnu/0%20-%20Copy.se1?dl=0

< Message edited by nukkxx5058 -- 11/19/2020 7:31:04 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 11:34:28 AM

Emx77

Posts: 419
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline

Here are my test results with save file "0 - Copy.se1" posted by nukkxx5058:

First test, ver. 1.05 beta7: 00:01:30.
Second test, ver. 1.05 beta13: 00:01:39.

My config:
Intel i5-9600K @3.7GHz
16GB RAM DDR4
64bit Win10Pro
GPU: NVidia GeForce RTX 2070 Super

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Post #: 11

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 11:49:40 AM

springel

Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

On my 5 year old laptop it took 2:45

i7-4700HQ @ 2.40 GHz, 16 GB RAM

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Post #: 12

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 12:52:59 PM

pauls2271

Posts: 42
Joined: 4/10/2020
Status: offline

1.05 beta 13 - 01:55

Intel i7-6700K @4.0GHz
24GB
64bit Win10Pro
GTX1070

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Post #: 13

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 12:57:28 PM

mroyer

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

Here are my test results with save file "0 - Copy.se1" posted by nukkxx5058:

v1.05 beta13: 00:02:34.

My config:
Surface Pro 4 Tablet
with docking brick and external monitor
Display Adapter Intel(R) Iris(R) Graphics 540
Resolution 2560x1440

-Mark R.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 2:20:59 PM

Nachtjager

Posts: 63
Joined: 3/2/2018
Status: offline

1.05b13 - 01:44

Intel i7-9700k @ 3.60GHz
32GB RAM
64GB Win 10
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080

I have noticed that leaving the new worldgen option in beta 13 to give the AI more time to think unchecked does make a difference in new games.

< Message edited by Nachtjager -- 11/18/2020 2:22:15 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 2:43:15 PM

battlefield91

Posts: 52
Joined: 2/17/2015
Status: offline

Testing out my new Rig: 1:29

My config:
Ryzen 5 5600X @ 4.40 GHz
16GB RAM DDR4
64bit Win10
GPU: NVidia GeForce RTX 3080
Installed on SSD

ver. 1.05 beta13

< Message edited by battlefield91 -- 11/18/2020 5:17:07 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 2:47:25 PM

nadia911

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline

Here are my test results en 1.05Beta13

2:26

Intel Pentium 4550Gold
8 GB RAM
Win 10 64
ATI 7770
SSD disk

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Post #: 17

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 3:38:13 PM

springel

Posts: 363
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, NL
Status: offline

Ran it on my desktop: 2:25

i5 6400 @ 2.70 GHz, 8 MB RAM

This and the earlier laptop result are on patch 13

Seems like the deciding factor is just pure CPU speed. Memory or Video card do not have any effect.

(in reply to nadia911)

Post #: 18

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 4:36:30 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

Long turn times means this becomes like Pride of Nations did.A game I never bother playing.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 11/18/2020 4:37:57 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 6:01:28 PM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Long turn times means this becomes like Pride of Nations did.A game I never bother playing.

The difference is that in PON the end turn duration wasn't dependent on the PC performance but was linked to the code itself. A good PC doesn't improve it. Here, it seems it's not the case as the test above shows.

2 minutes turn resolution is reasonable.

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Post #: 20

RE: Turn duration - 11/18/2020 7:26:04 PM

Daza99

Posts: 285
Joined: 8/1/2017
Status: offline

Desktop AMD FX-8320 (8 Core) 3.5Ghz
Ram: 16gb, SDD

Time: 3:30 via 1.05 Beta13

There is a new setting in 'generation settings' where you can check 'Give Ai more time to think' was this ticked for this test game save? i am not sure if this was a newly added feature in beta13 or earlier.

I think as your game goes on and you expand more you take more time with your turn anyway and then while waiting for the ai think about your next turn, where as at the start of the game the ai doesn't take so long and your turns are usually quick as well. So its not like the ai is slow from very start. Also of course MP would be one turn a day or whatever depending how many human players there are anyway.

< Message edited by Daza99 -- 11/19/2020 1:07:04 AM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Turn duration - 11/19/2020 12:47:09 AM

jimwinsor

Posts: 1076
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

2:07 for me, with beta 13.

PC
AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Eight-Core Processor, 3.60 GHz
32.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Home
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
1280 x 1024

< Message edited by jimwinsor -- 11/19/2020 12:48:43 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Turn duration - 11/19/2020 6:59:15 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daza99

There is a new setting in 'generation settings' where you can check 'Give Ai more time to think' was this ticked for this test game save? i am not sure if this was a newly added feature in beta13 or earlier.

The save was made with beta 11. And no, this feature was not yet implemented as far as I can see. So it wasn't ticked.

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Post #: 23

RE: Turn duration - 11/19/2020 7:29:16 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

Good news !! Something interesting just happened. My first test was made with beta 11 and I obtained 6+ minutes. I made 3 times the test to be sure and each time obtained roughly the same.

I just installed 1.05 beta 13 and now I just got 00:03:23 for the turn resolution. Made the test twice in a row.

So the problem I had was probably linked to beta 11.

I will edit my previous message to include this new information as I don't want to turn off some potential buyers with my daunting 6 minutes for a turn I had with beta 11!

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Post #: 24

RE: Turn duration - 11/19/2020 9:43:27 AM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

The amount of zones and other factions has a big effect on turn time

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Post #: 25

RE: Turn duration - 11/19/2020 10:20:26 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

@wodin : Yes.

And it seems that the PC config plays an important role. A good PC seems 2/3 times faster as the test shows.

< Message edited by nukkxx5058 -- 11/19/2020 10:21:45 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Turn duration - 11/20/2020 11:52:55 AM

Reppu

Posts: 10
Joined: 5/24/2017
Status: offline

Time 1:25

ver. 1.05 beta14

Ryzen 5 5600X
16GB RAM DDR4 3600mhz
64bit Win10
Installed on SSD

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Post #: 27

RE: Turn duration - 11/21/2020 11:48:35 PM

gmsitton

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: springel

Ran it on my desktop: 2:25

i5 6400 @ 2.70 GHz, 8 MB RAM

This and the earlier laptop result are on patch 13

Seems like the deciding factor is just pure CPU speed. Memory or Video card do not have any effect.

I concur. The video card definitely has no impact. I ran Task Manager during an AI turn and the NVIDIA card on my laptop stayed at 0%, while the integrated Intel UHD GPU only ran at 4%. CPU and memory utilization remained static at about 20% each. The CPU did turbo boost from 2.6 to 4.0+ GHz. The SSD stayed at 0%.

i7-9750 @ 2.60GHz, 32GB RAM

I haven't run the benchmark test, but on a huge Siwa planet with 6 majors and 43 minors, the AI turn is about 10 minutes.

Other games like WitP:AE, GG's WitE, WitW, all have long AI turns, so I just Alt Tab and do something else on the computer until the turn is done.

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Post #: 28

RE: Turn duration - 11/23/2020 10:03:31 AM

Shards

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Joined: 8/25/2015
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Shadow Empire is (like all of Vic's games) CPU bound.

My Laptop:
i5-9300H @ 2.4GHz
16Gb RAM

My times:

Silent (throttled fan performance): 2m 26s

Unthrottled : 2m 02s

Uses about 50% of my CPU cycles and 10Gb of RAM during an AI turn.

The latest betas have the option to "allow AI more time". Ticking this will dedicate more time to the AI, making Majors play better, leaving it unticked will give them less focus, but improves turn times.

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Post #: 29

RE: Turn duration - 12/6/2020 4:52:41 AM

Darrell999

Posts: 72
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

ver. 1.06.05

On my laptop: 2:15 (i7-6700HQ, 16GB RAM)

On my desktop: 1:26 (Ryzen 3900x, 32GB RAM)

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Post #: 30