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- 8/15/2003 2:09:14 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I'll fill a slot if no one else does.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 31
- 8/15/2003 2:13:34 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		bob: you are VET US player then !!

thx.

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(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 32
- 8/15/2003 2:21:52 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by AmmoSgt
[B]Newbie walk over Experienced player?? You don't mean like the 10th Mountain In Italy or the 101 and 82nd at Normandy .. Or the Marines at Guadacanal ? Newbies like that walkin over Experienced Players like that ?? Is that what you mean? Totally Green Units going up against experienced battle harden Vets under real lousy conditions of supply and a shortage of the traditional US Heavy Arty Support and all that ? Naw we wouldn't want Stuff like the 442nd and the Rangers just coming into the Game green and kicking butt ,or maybe the 34th Big "T" for Texas just off the boat...
To be Historical actually firepower should be high enough for the US Units , even Green units to do well as the traditionally did against Battle Hardened Axis Units .. Elete US Units , well Green Elete ( if that ain't an oxymoron I don't know what is :) ) Units should at least kick some serious butt .
Seriously though a "newbie" usually has some experience against the AI , and a serious Newbie into actualy tactical proficency probably should be able to kick some serious booty if the game accurately reflected historical capabilities .. The Germans to win should have to be played with incredible skill .. Thats sorta what is missing here , a simple realization that despite the myths and a few heavy tanks the Germans won by Great Tactical Skill when the won .. their Armor was actually pretty much worse than their opponents . both in quality and quanity when they were winning ( and they were somewhat green themselves in the early days of WW2 ) High Morale from some bloodless anexations and a few key units gaining some experience early on in Poland and to some degree Spain . In France they were Mostly Green , armor was weaker and outnumbered , and even going into Russia over Half the German Army had never seen a shot fired in anger , and they had nothing to compare to T-34's and KV-1's . That is why I am so against this "if I got a Tiger I should win TigerKiddey Mentality" with high pointforces on small maps and using tactics better suited for "Quake". If I am Losing it must be the fault of the US euipment being rated to high so we muct whine and get it dumbed down.. arty spoils the game .. The Germans that created the Myth , didn't create the myth with superior equipment they did it with tactical profeciency , and when the politics and Morale loss took it toll on their Real Combat Comanders and they started beinng exicuted by Hitler and demoted and removed from command .. Not even King Tigers could make up the difference.
But it is a Fun Game , not to be taken seriously , Tiger tanks mean you win...and you just don't know how much you are missing .. this game could be so rich .. if it wasn't just a fun game . [/B][/QUOTE]

AmmoSgt, the problem is that it is the human player in the game that brings the tactics to the match. I fancy myself a pretty good player, so I don't care what country I'm playing. I'll represent whatever country I'm given pretty well. It seems the way you want it, you should have experienced players only playing the Germans and newbies playing the Allies, so that with realistic OOBs, you'll have an accurate representation of actual WWII actions.

I do however, wish more battles would take your suggestion about bigger maps and longer games. 10,000 pts of equipment crammed into a small map has everyone stumbling all over themselves so there is nowhere to exploit tactical/deployment mistakes. That's where the real fun is!

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 33
- 8/15/2003 3:29:39 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Next Game RB next Game, we will use the largest map possible and 50 turns or more :rolleyes:

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 34
- 8/15/2003 4:23:00 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by VikingNo2
[B]Next Game RB next Game, we will use the largest map possible and 50 turns or more :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

next game will be you ( ger ) vs. rb ( US ) in the "ammo sgt. contest" !

pls. make suggestions on map,points + turn length ( not more then 25 i would say , min. map size large ).

all 3 pairs play under the same conditions, so we need a balanced map !

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(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 35
- 8/15/2003 10:46:27 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]balanced map ![/QUOTE]

theres that word balanced again:D :D :D :D :D :cool:

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"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 36
- 8/15/2003 10:57:01 AM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by chief
[B]theres that word balanced again:D :D :D :D :D :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 37
- 8/15/2003 11:06:22 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		I would sugest a 100x120 6k points

Would rather just play a random map, unless RB wants to set something up.


I think AmmoSgt, should pick the terms

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 38
- 8/15/2003 1:51:21 PM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by VikingNo2
[B]I would sugest a 100x120 6k points

Would rather just play a random map, unless RB wants to set something up.


I think AmmoSgt, should pick the terms [/B][/QUOTE]

5000 points 100 x200 random map no mines in meeting engaements ( except what engineers lay during the game everything at default C&C off Rareity off ... set for maybe 45-55 turns dawn should get you a useable spread of visibility .. anywhere from 5 to 50+

heres my theory ... 5000 on that big of a map you need ground forces to hold and take ground but if you do decide to go arty heavy or air heavy you are going to be hurting BAD watch your flanks folks can use terrian to actually get behind you .. I am assuming a meeting engagement .. youwill need a good ballance of recon to watch a lot of map , moble reserves to fill gaps and something to hold objectives ... oh and do buy all the artillery you want .. mortars will need to have transportation ( costs points ) ammo trucks will have a hard time keeping up .. off borad arty will run out if you do alot of speculative fire in a 50 turn game .. have fun ... you will need the practice I will probably be getting back in about October sometime ..:)

_____________________________

"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 39
- 8/15/2003 5:26:14 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		great ammo !

i would say i look for a map and post it here or in a new thread so all ppl. can keep track of it.

ammo: as your are the mentor of it you will keep track of the 3 games - you don´t need much time but you judge the results after the games ended and collect the opinions of players and then we post it for discussion !

i would say H2H because the US here get´s some more arty for the points as it should be. can only be a france or italy battle i would say in july or aug. 44 ?

would that be okay?

but we still need 1 exp. player + 1 newbie player ! how about belisarius, chief. wufir ?
you are experienced ? or already a vet ?

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(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 40
- 8/15/2003 7:50:28 PM   
wulfir


Posts: 3091
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I do however, wish more battles would take your suggestion about bigger maps and longer games. 10,000 pts of equipment crammed into a small map has everyone stumbling all over themselves so there is nowhere to exploit tactical/deployment mistakes. That's where the real fun is! [/B][/QUOTE]

hehe... I fighting a SPMBT 250 turns battle on a 200x160 hex map of Grozny, Chechnya. Y'all try and beat that. :cool: :D :p

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Semper in Primis

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 41
- 8/15/2003 7:51:30 PM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		Frank I appreciate the nomination .. but honestly I am way to prejudiced .. seriously ... why not just post the turns and After action reports in the game section and let whoever is interested download them at look at them ?
And Frank .. if you get to much arty you are going to lose seriously alot of arty is NOT a good thing but each player will learn what is needed to fight a maneuver battle .,.

_____________________________

"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 42
- 8/15/2003 8:29:33 PM   
Sonni

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Frank W: sorry I don't have H2H :(

I'd love to get it, but I have no access to the internet at home, and I have to ask my littlebrother to download it and bring his harddrive with him next time he comes to visit. He lives 160 km from my place and is propably coming to visit my parents next weekend or the next after that, so I could start playing in about two weeks.

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(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 43
- 8/15/2003 8:34:42 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		>why not just post the turns and After action reports in the game section and let whoever is interested download them at look at them ?

yep. we post the games in the DAR section if everybody agrees so far...

i open i new thread for it.

let´s then close the discussion here, and wait for the results on the battlefield....

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(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 44
- 8/15/2003 11:53:13 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I'd rather play v7.1.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to AmmoSgt)
Post #: 45
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