Is it worth it?

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Is it worth it? - 12/17/2020 8:25:31 PM

rustysi

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Was wondering, with the sale price and latest updates, it the title worth the purchase?

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/17/2020 8:28:39 PM

craigbear

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In my opinion, yes... but all depends on expectations, doesn't it.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/17/2020 10:24:52 PM

Neilster

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IMHO, absolutely yes.

It's great solitaire, online play basically works now and plenty are doing PBEM (with some negotiation and cooperation). Steve plans to begin coding the AI properly in the New Year and much preliminary work has been done on the AI already.

For the price of a few pub beers, you get a fantastic strategic WW2 simulator that will only improve with time.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/17/2020 11:04:19 PM

Aranthus

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If you love Wif, then at $20, it is probably worth it. Understand that the game is still in development. Most of it works well, but some parts still do not work very well. Resource transportation and trade are buggy and difficult to use. Check out the technical issues forum. If you can live with the hiccups, then go for it.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/17/2020 11:05:19 PM

Zovs

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I�d say an emphatic yes.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 12:16:41 AM

Courtenay

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Be aware of what you are getting. The game, as a reproduction of the board game, is just about complete. It does not have an AI, and while, at some point in a few years, it may have one, I don't expect it ever have a GOOD one.

So if an AI is a requirement for you, don't get it. If what you want is a reproduction of a $200 board game for $20, this is the product for you. I personally think that MWiF is better than WiF: I don't have room for WiF in my apartment, I do have room for MWiF on my computer.

Also, the game plays better on the computer. The supply calculations are far more likely to be right than when done over the board, and the computer will calculate how much oil you need. Also, the computer will always tell you what planes can reach any combat, including that Japanese NAV way over there that you had missed completely, and it will keep perfect track of your action limits, no matter how much you might not want it to.

So basically, if you are a board wargamer, get MWiF.

< Message edited by Courtenay -- 1/20/2021 7:38:13 AM >

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 5:55:05 AM

juntoalmar

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It all depends on everyone�s preferences: if you like this kind of boardgame/wargame, if the prize is expensive to you, etc...

Personally, knowing how much I have played & enjoyed, and how much I paid, it is worth even without a sale. WiF is (probably) the best WWII global-scale strategic wargame ever. The computer version is going to help you to learn how to play, make many of the calculations, etc. Playing solitary is enjoyable, and multiplayer is doable (although not as easy as in other wargames).

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 8:47:33 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Was wondering, with the sale price and latest updates, it the title worth the purchase?

warspite1

At this price this isn't even a question you should be asking. Just buy it.

This may seem like a strange thing to say from someone who has only recently publicly stated he's fallen out of love with MWIF (not WIF). But let me explain.

World In Flames is the best war game ever imo - it towers above all other strategic games like Third Reich and Strategic Command, and don't even think about Axis and Allies. This is not because its historically accurate to the nth degree - because its not and its not designed to be - it's a game designed to be won by either side, and that means some liberties must be taken with counter values (one can imagine the liberties taken with Japan!). But that is an acceptable trade-off.

But what you do get thanks to its clever basic framework, is a game that always has a WWII feel about it. You are playing with the advantages and disadvantages of the various major powers. So even if attacking Spain is your thing, or Sweden, the game rarely feels far away from real life WWII.

And remember, this is a strategic game and yet you have under your control almost all the ships (light cruiser and above) that fought in WWII plus some what ifs should you wish to build them. You get to 'play' all the aircraft types available during the war too. The counters are colourful and beautifully presented. The maps are a thing of beauty - simple, clear and elegant (the maps are the only thing that lets the board game down - but Steve has created much, much better versions).

One of the real winners for someone of a certain age with eyesight to match, are the levels of zoom available. No squinting needed, whack up to the highest level of zoom required for any particular part of the game and that is a real bonus compared to some games.

Its an incredibly challenging game, hardly anything is ever guaranteed to work thanks to the way weather, turn initiative, counter mix, counter choice, turn end, and of course the dreaded dice, work together. A player needs to think many, many turns ahead, reacting to opportunities and potential threats.

Just about every action you take as an Allied or Axis player affects US Entry timing and so you have to be careful what you do - its not just a free for all.

Downside of MWIF? Well its still a work in progress. My frustration at present is that the convoy/production system needs some love. But some have it working to their satisfaction (I am too much of a computer numpty to be able to get it to mine). But the game is constantly being worked on and so anyone that buys it should see it as a long term project. I will be back at the game as soon as there are any convoy/production updates to test out.

The regulars on the forum are very knowledgeable and very helpful and patient with questions from newbies and not so newbies too.

I paid full price (less a small discount for doing the naval write-ups) for the game and I don't regret it for a second. At the sale price, just buy it. Worst case, they never resolve the convoy/production issues and you don't play it (although you may be one of those that can get comfortable as is). Is it worth that gamble? Hell yes. Buy it and keep up with the updates and one day...... And if they still sell the glossy hardcover manuals then get them too. They are works of art that I still lovingly caress and sleep with every night.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/18/2020 8:51:56 AM >

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 2:07:56 PM

76mm

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As others have said, it depends on what you're looking for. Ultimately, I didn't care for this game at all.

Just be aware that in addition to the price of the game, unless you are already familiar with the WiF rules, you are going to have to spend huge amounts of time learning to play this game by reading the manual, watching video tutorials, and researching the forums for info about all the issues not addressed in the manual.

Also, be aware that when you play, your only choices will be between two vey limited and unsatisfying learner scenarios (Barbarossa and Guadalcanal), and a few global scenarios involving the entire war in Europe and the Pacific. The whole reason I bought the game--the "half map" scenarios covering only the European part of the war--have not been released some 7 years after the game was released.

Bottom line: some people love this game but it is certainly not for everyone.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 5:20:21 PM

Centuur

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If one is prepared to spend a lot of time to learn how to play this game, it's worth it.

It is still a work in progress, that's for sure.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 5:36:45 PM

rustysi

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quote:

you are going to have to spend huge amounts of time learning to play this game by reading the manual, watching video tutorials, and researching the forums for info about all the issues not addressed in the manual.

Just like all games I've played in this genre I've done all the above many times over. Know that I play WitP-AE.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 5:40:44 PM

rustysi

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quote:

It does not have an AI,

I've never met an AI that I like. To me they are only useful as a tool to play a game while I learn. Trouble is, its often difficult to find an opponent. Today that's solved by PBEM.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 5:43:58 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Resource transportation and trade are buggy and difficult to use.

That could be a deal breaker for myself. I'm a bit of a masochist when it comes to things like this, in WitP-AE I play as Japan.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:05:14 PM

rustysi

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quote:

At this price this isn't even a question you should be asking. Just buy it.

quote:

and don't even think about Axis and Allies.

That's a game I never really cared for, but TBH I haven't played any of the latest versions. I did go to a game tournament a while back, and it was mostly Axis and Allies. Eh. Thought about picking up a copy of the latest, but still on the fence.

Honestly I kinda look at WiF in a similar light. Read an AAR a while back where Yamamoto and some Japanese air ended up it Scandinavia. A bit too a-historical for my taste.

quote:

This is not because its historically accurate to the nth degree - because its not and its not designed to be

That OK. But I reference above. Was that an anomaly, or the norm?

quote:

remember, this is a strategic game and yet you have under your control almost all the ships (light cruiser and above) that fought in WWII

I know you like playing with you little boats. Always a Brit.

quote:

And if they still sell the glossy hardcover manuals then get them too. They are works of art that I still lovingly caress and sleep with every night.

OK. Now that explains a load.

Thanks a lot guys. All comments greatly appreciated. As will all others based on my additional input above.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:17:21 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Honestly I kinda look at WiF in a similar light. Read an AAR a while back where Yamamoto and some Japanese air ended up it Scandinavia. A bit too a-historical for my taste.

That OK. But I reference above. Was that an anomaly, or the norm?

warspite1

Whut?

What sort of game was that? Sounds like someone's Axis wet dream than a remotely likely game of WIF....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/18/2020 6:21:03 PM >

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:21:19 PM

rustysi

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Oh, BTW.

Warspite1, you've dabbled in WitP-AE. How do the 'learning curves' of these two compare. Or do they?

I ask because I'm still heavily involve with that beast (AE) and that limits my time for other games. Then again, a slow approach to WiF might not be a bad thing, gives them more time to fix it. I'll be honest, WitP-AE left a lot to be desired when it first came out. A bunch of things were improved over the years.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:29:11 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Honestly I kinda look at WiF in a similar light. Read an AAR a while back where Yamamoto and some Japanese air ended up it Scandinavia. A bit too a-historical for my taste.

That OK. But I reference above. Was that an anomaly, or the norm?

warspite1

Whut? What sort of game was that? Sounds like someone's Axis wet dream than a remotely likely game of WIF....

Don't know, but it was from some tourny a while back. It was some kinda reading supplement in the material I got when I purchased the board game a while ago. Never had the time to get into it, and even though I have the space, don't wish to set it up if I'm not gonna be plugging away.

But obviously from you response, its an anomaly.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:33:16 PM

rustysi

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quote:

I am too much of a computer numpty

Now there's a bit of British slang that I'm unfamiliar with, I'm sure there are tons more.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:37:25 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Oh, BTW.

Warspite1, you've dabbled in WitP-AE. How do the 'learning curves' of these two compare. Or do they?

I ask because I'm still heavily involve with that beast (AE) and that limits my time for other games. Then again, a slow approach to WiF might not be a bad thing, gives them more time to fix it. I'll be honest, WitP-AE left a lot to be desired when it first came out. A bunch of things were improved over the years.

warspite1

Well the two are just sooo different I don't think there is really a comparison to be made. I mean seriously different. Both games will appeal to those prepared to put in the hours - and you really need to put in the hours.

Neither game is beer and pretzels and there is so much to learn and even more effort required to even begin to master.

WITP-AE just overwhelmed me. I just didn't enjoy the endless clicking when all I wanted to do was get some sexy aircraft on a carrier. I think had I not played WIF (albeit 20 years previously and a different version) MWIF may well have overwhelmed me too. I am amazed how newbies come to both games and get up and running.

Probably best to ask that question of someone with a brain....

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:43:01 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Honestly I kinda look at WiF in a similar light. Read an AAR a while back where Yamamoto and some Japanese air ended up it Scandinavia. A bit too a-historical for my taste.

That OK. But I reference above. Was that an anomaly, or the norm?

warspite1

Whut? What sort of game was that? Sounds like someone's Axis wet dream than a remotely likely game of WIF....

Don't know, but it was from some tourny a while back. It was some kinda reading supplement in the material I got when I purchased the board game a while ago. Never had the time to get into it, and even though I have the space, don't wish to set it up if I'm not gonna be plugging away.

But obviously from you response, its an anomaly.

warspite1

Despite some large scale juggling with the counters and their values (so that Japan can give the US a game) I can't even begin to imagine a game where the Japanese player can take their best HQ out of the Pacific and set up a supply line to Scandinavia. I mean unless it was right at the end of a game where the Axis had had unbelievable luck from start to finish?? I can't even begin to figure that one. Some of the grognards on here may provide more illumination on wtf could have been going on to allow that.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 6:43:38 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I am too much of a computer numpty

Now there's a bit of British slang that I'm unfamiliar with, I'm sure there are tons more.

warspite1

Mmmmm... it means when it comes to computers, I'm a twat.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 7:53:04 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I am too much of a computer numpty

Now there's a bit of British slang that I'm unfamiliar with, I'm sure there are tons more.

warspite1

Mmmmm... it means when it comes to computers, I'm a twat.

Yeah, I kinda got the meaning, although I haven't heard it before.

I have heard the second term before. Remember the kid who wrote what became Jethro Tull's, Thick as a Brick.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/18/2020 9:49:55 PM

brian brian

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Once upon a time there was a tournament game of World in Flames that briefly featured Japanese Zeroes flying into the North Sea from land hexes in Denmark. All of the players were quite experienced. I played at another table in the room, but spectating that game was definitely one of the bonus experiences of going to a "WiFCon" if at all possible - which I heartily recommend.

It is very much worth noting that the Axis ultimately lost the game with the Zeroes in the North Sea, and not just "on points" - it was a Total Allied Victory. Though Tokyo was the last capital to fall, there was still a whole turn left to go, is my memory. And though the game system permitted this Tripartite Pact action, no one felt that the game system 'broke' along the way either. And which also featured a whole other sort of divide-by-zero type event: the UK surrendered - & even while under the command of an actual British player. But the Commonwealth did not....

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/21/2020 12:16:47 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Once upon a time there was a tournament game of World in Flames that briefly featured Japanese Zeroes flying into the North Sea from land hexes in Denmark. All of the players were quite experienced. I played at another table in the room, but spectating that game was definitely one of the bonus experiences of going to a "WiFCon" if at all possible - which I heartily recommend.

It is very much worth noting that the Axis ultimately lost the game with the Zeroes in the North Sea, and not just "on points" - it was a Total Allied Victory. Though Tokyo was the last capital to fall, there was still a whole turn left to go, is my memory. And though the game system permitted this Tripartite Pact action, no one felt that the game system 'broke' along the way either. And which also featured a whole other sort of divide-by-zero type event: the UK surrendered - & even while under the command of an actual British player. But the Commonwealth did not....

I wouldn't know how to get the Japanese units across the map/world to Denmark.

Maybe if the USSR attacks Persia and the Axis aligns it to Japan. Then the Japanese would have to rebase long range air units to Persia. Possibly from there to Europe. But there would be no sources of supply for those air units. Supply has to trace back to the home country (Japan).

If they were NOT playing with limited overseas supply (optional rule) then the Japanese would 'merely' have to have all the sea areas from Japan to the North Sea empty of all enemy combat units. I guess if Japan were only at war with China, that might be easy to do. But in that case, what would the Japanese air units do in the North Sea? Sit around and look pretty? As soon as Japan went to war with another Allied major power, the air units would be out of supply and useless.

---

Anyway, MWIF (and WIF) give the player a lot of latitude on what to do with their units. Many stupid moves can be made, some of which the historical decision makers would never have done.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/21/2020 6:14:00 AM

brian brian

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What happened was - the Japanese attacked the Commonwealth in 1940, when Japan is the dominant naval air power in the game. The Imperial Guard and friends made short work of the defenses of Suez, and Allied convoy lines were obliterated as Sea Lion began to launch. Two 6 factor Zeroes in a 4 Box are pretty much going to wipe out 1940 grade Allied air assets. The Royal Navy had little choice but to contract around a single convoy line from North America to the UK, which surrendered in 1941; the point of that was to keep the remaining British fleet in the game. I don�t think the Japanese kept units in Europe very long and mainly sent the Yamamoto HQ and a few planes for several turns.

I did not follow the twists and turns of Japan in that too much as I was playing Japan/Italy on another table, and that is a busy combo to play on a clock.

The dominant fact of that game should be obvious to most who have played World in Flames - US Entry, and more significantly, US production, was massively accelerated. By the end of the game, the USA was playing an offensive chit on every impulse. Also in World in Flames, ignoring a Major Power in the game becomes a regret eventually. The Chinese were even throwing offensive chits, and the Stilwell HQ and Chinese Paratroopers delivered the coup de grace on Tokyo, the last Japanese controlled hex.

< Message edited by brian brian -- 12/21/2020 6:17:26 AM >

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RE: Is it worth it? - 12/22/2020 3:23:17 AM

rustysi

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Thank for the explanation, I was questioning my sanity thinking I read something I hadn't.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 1/1/2021 11:50:31 AM

Athelas2211

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How is MP working? Max number players?
Hot seat available? PBEM with save games sent automatically or saved then manual sending? Is there a dedicated server working? So we can set up deadlines, reminders, earlier turn execution if all submitted etc.
Easyness of setup?

< Message edited by Athelas2211 -- 1/1/2021 1:38:14 PM >

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RE: Is it worth it? - 1/1/2021 5:42:24 PM

paulderynck

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Multiplayer is max of 2 on Netplay or many players if they use screen and mouse sharing. (I suppose you could have more on Netplay if the two were screen shared with others on their same side.) Netplay still has occasional bugs that most players find ways to work around. Hot seat and solitaire are very solid.

Hot seat is available. Two players take turns using the same computer. Really not too different than starting the game solitaire and then taking turns on the same computer.

PBEM file transmission is entirely manual.

Netplay uses a dedicated server but none of those features you ask about are implemented. There is a system in place to find opponents on the Netplay server, but I don't know if many players use it.

Easyness of setup is proportional to how well a player knows the game.

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RE: Is it worth it? - 1/2/2021 1:25:55 PM

Athelas2211

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Wait. Hotseat / PBEM is also at max 2? Not 7 players?

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RE: Is it worth it? - 1/2/2021 3:02:52 PM

davidachamberlain

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Every option is limited to 2 players, but it is easy to work around. MWIF has just the 2 sides, but you can switch between major powers easily for most actions. We regularly play with 4 players, but just go through the major power sequence for each action and switch when necessary.

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Post #: 30