Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective)

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Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 6:50:08 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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Hello everyone,

My name is Robert and with Tim we are going to give you an insight into a Gary Grisby's War in the East 2 multiplayer game. As I have more experience with the War in the East series, I will play the bad guys.

In screenshot below you can see the initial Axis setup.

For those coming from War in the East it will look familiar. Ultimately, the initial deployment is historical. I will stick (more or less � you know, no plan survives contact with the enemy) with the OKH plan and all Army Groups will advance according to the original plan without any larger shuffling of units. That means Army Group North (AGN) towards Leningrad. Army Group Center (AGC) towards Moscow without diverting some Panzers south, therefore no infamous Turn 1 Lvov pocket. And last but not least Army Group South (AGS), together with Romanians under Antonescu, towards Crimea and Donbass.

Major focus will be put on gaining Victory Points and possibly kicking Soviets out of the war.
Effort will be also made to destroy, or at least significantly weaken the Red Army. However I will not push for encircling units at all costs because there are other tools on hand as well. Badly beaten units will melt under attack and en mass refiting of depleted units is not as easy as it is in WitE.

Post #: 1

Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 6:58:59 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

Turn 1, 22.6.1941

Let's start the war!

Every turn has 2 phases [1], Air phase and Movement phase. You can leave AI to handle the air war but I like to organize things myself. Since the Eastern Front was primarily about ground war therefore most of the Luftwaffe will be on ground support duty with the exception of first turn when I will try to hit Soviet airbases as hard as possible.

From my experience I believe that bomb load does matter, in the end you don't need one ton bomb to destroy enemy plane on ground, 50kg will do the job just as well. Therefore all my planes will carry as many bombs as possible.

I setup some 30+ air directives, most targeting airfields but left a few Stukas for ground support and fighters for interception. The result is satisfying, 3800 Soviet aircraft destroyed in exchange for 200 of my own losses.

On the ground, the only organisational changes I did was to rebalance the support units and infantry divisions between the different corps. However I have heard Manstein's call for one additional mobile division and 14th Motorized Division was reassigned from AGC to his LVI Motorized Corps. Let's hope he will fulfill the promise about capturing Leningrad.

AGN

Since I have already mentioned Manstein, let's look on the north first. The northern spearhead from East Prussia advanced along two axis. One motorized corps straight to Riga, and the NKVD division based there offered some resistance and city fell to second attack. The other corps via Kaunas to Daugavpils. Best progress have been made by 1st Panzer Division which ended the week only 10 hexes away from Pskov.

AGC

AGC, with its two Panzer Groups, was advancing on a broader front capturing Polotsk, Minsk and crossing Berezina. One reason for broader advance is that isolated hexes won't automatically flip to your control and they need to be manually converted. Second, not all rails are equal and throughput is not unlimited therefore you want to have multiple double rails connected to your supply network.
AGC also successfully encircled the Soviet Western Front in the Białystok�Minsk area.

AGS

Progress of the AGS at the first glance has been less epic. Armored spearhead basically just moved along the Lvov - Proskurov rail line and only few units were encircled near Lvov and some west of Kovel. However I doubt that Soviets will be able to pull out all the units from the area between Lvov and Carpathian Mountains, much will depend how many movement points those units will have.

I have essentially split the Soviet southern forces into the half, hoping it will put them off-balance. In addition, there is a chance to hit the Southern Front hard in the next week (SF starts frozen and can't be moved on T1 as long as the Axis player does not move too far south or east of Lvov).

End turn losses.

By the end of the turn Soviet air losses raised to 4500. 111 ground units were destroyed but the vast majority are border fortresses and overrun AA units.

Victory points at the end of first week.

By occupying Riga, Minsk and Lvov I gained 30 VPs plus another 11 as a bonus which gives me 411 in total.

[1] To be precise there are 4 distinct phases but in two of them (Logistics and when it executes the air directives) the player has no direct input.

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 2

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 9:21:32 AM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
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As the first turn is now essentially "longer" than in WitE1, the advances in the north seem to be proceeding at close to historical pace. I'm hoping the weather, road and logistics systems will be creating interesting obstacles for Manstein's ambitions in the north :) It always seemed to be a bit too easy to advance to and through the Luga line in WitE1, unless the Soviets really diverted a lot of units there.

Does the opening turn feel a lot like WitE1 or are there new quirks and tricks to consider? I'd expect the depot placement and covering the main railways early on will play a key role? Could you explain and demonstrate the depot creation and placement operations during the first few turns in some later report?

Deciding to have the south handled strictly by AGS seems to definitely have consequences, the Soviets can most likely press the supply on that spearhead really thin on their turn!

I guess the reasoning for the narrow breakthrough is to just secure the main rail line? I recall that one main objective in the south was to move the infantry east as quickly as possible, but you seem to have most of the AGS infantry tied on the pockets, especially the 6th army seems busy near Kovel. Do you feel the resistance in the south is tougher than in WitE1 or is this just a strategic choice?

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 3

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 9:24:57 AM

DekeFentle

Posts: 40
Joined: 3/11/2019
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What were the bonus point for? It sure would be nice to actually view the the VP data for the cities you mentioned.

_____________________________

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 4

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 9:26:21 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

What were the bonus point for? It sure would be nice to actually view the the VP data for the cities you mentioned.

Capturing place ahead of historical date.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 5

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 9:47:05 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

... It sure would be nice to actually view the the VP data for the cities you mentioned.

You can see them on the right hand side of the image in the main post

_____________________________

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 6

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 9:51:48 AM

DekeFentle

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Joined: 3/11/2019
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I can see everything but Riga, Minsk and Lvov. A scroll down and capture would be nice.

_____________________________

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 7

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 10:01:38 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

Does the opening turn feel a lot like WitE1 or are there new quirks and tricks to consider? I'd expect the depot placement and covering the main railways early on will play a key role? Could you explain and demonstrate the depot creation and placement operations during the first few turns in some later report?

You need to consider combat delay and the first turn special movement rules, basically AGN and AGC units move "faster", they do not pay any additional movement costs for entering or leaving a ZOC, nor do they pay a cost for entering an enemy controlled hex.
About depots later

quote:

Deciding to have the south handled strictly by AGS seems to definitely have consequences, the Soviets can most likely press the supply on that spearhead really thin on their turn!

I guess the reasoning for the narrow breakthrough is to just secure the main rail line? I recall that one main objective in the south was to move the infantry east as quickly as possible, but you seem to have most of the AGS infantry tied on the pockets, especially the 6th army seems busy near Kovel. Do you feel the resistance in the south is tougher than in WitE1 or is this just a strategic choice?

I had more reasons for that approach in south.
1. The special first turn movement rules do no apply in south so I believe Guderian can gain more in center than south
2. Yes I tried to secure the line, I did not need to move that far east as the railhead is still far behind but
3. Along the rail is best terrain, more north are swamps and going more south would activate the South Front, I did not want that to happen

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 8

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 10:04:26 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
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From: Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

I can see everything but Riga, Minsk and Lvov. A scroll down and capture would be nice.

The screenshot is from end of turn and you don't see captured cities anymore on the list. But Soviets will see them as theirs objective.

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 9

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 12:50:30 PM

weinsoldner

Posts: 152
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From: Netherlands
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A very interesting and very detailed first turn AAR from the Axis perspective!!
I noticed a lof of units were broken down to regiments in AGC.

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 10

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/2/2021 1:02:03 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
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From: Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: weinsoldner

I noticed a lof of units were broken down to regiments in AGC.

Two main reasons
1. With regiments you cover more space, but in most cases they won't hold off any Soviet (deliberate)attack.
2. Preserving Combat Preparation Points, when you need to attack weak unit(border fort, NKVD regiment, etc.) regiment is more than enough and you will save CPP

(in reply to weinsoldner)

Post #: 11

Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 6:34:58 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

Turn 2, 29.6.1941

The good, all pockets held. The bad, setback in North Africa. The ugly, the southern armored pincer have been cut off.

At the turn start 7 new events awaited me. Not all were bad. The Finns joined party. Soviets suffered from force shortages in two theaters costing them 2 admin and 2 victory points, I suffered in the West and lost 1 point from each. However I also suffered a setback in North Africa and Rommel is now closer to be kicked out of there. Because we are playing with locked theater boxes I am reluctant to send him any reinforcements due to the inability to move them out later.

On T2 I switched the Luftwaffe exclusively to Ground Support role. The logistics situation does not allow me to move the Luftwaffe forward, therefore with exception of deploying some fighter groups to places like Riga, the Luftwaffe must keep flying from East Prussian and Polish bases for now. The only missions flown during Air Phase were recon.

AGN

In the previous turn I didn't bother with capturing the port of Ventspils and left it for Naval Interdiction to cover. As can be seen, Soviet forces in Lithuania are still isolated even they managed establishing connection with the port.

Recon did show Soviet concentration around Pskov but not much could be seen between Pskov and Velikie Luki. 4th Panzer Group outflanked them through the gap left south-east of Pskov. That should force them to retreat or risk encirclement and/or the loss of Novgorod.

Terrain in north is generally bad and every opportunity of sneaking up on Leningrad should be exploited.

In the bottom can be seen Infantry divisions rushing north to assist the Panzers.

AGC

In the center 2nd and 3rd Panzer Group, without any major resistance, reached Land Bridge and Dnepr. Unfortunately, due to the lack of movement points, I was not able to exploit the opportunity and cross Dnepr on this turn.

On the bright side, Land Bridge defense has been breached, Vitebsk taken and so were Orsha and Mogilev. I am expecting river crossing next week without any major problems.

I kept deliberately two Panzer divisions on the Berizina's east bank. Moving them east would not gain anything for me, they would just burn fuel and Combat Preparation Points(CPPs). On the other hand leaving them to rest in friendly controled territory with lot of strategic movement points and CPPs still left, will assure that next week they will be true monsters sweeping any opposition away. Both ended my move with still some 60+ CPPs, next turn they will be at 100 or close to it.

AGS

South at the start of my move. I had expected that Soviets may cut off my armored pincer. I did not expect they will manage to cut off basically the entire spearhead. At least Southern Front remained frozen and Soviets were not able to evacuate all their units from the area between Lvov and Carpathian Mountains.

1st Panzer Group made contact with Romanians and formed large encirclement containing parts of Southwestern and Southern Fronts. I tried to make sure Soviets won't be able to break out, but the sector being held by the Romanian's armor is far from secure.

Surprisingly, most of the Soviet Southwestern Front forces seems to be positioned in area between Rovno, Zhitomir, Vinnitsa guarding the approaches to Kiev. If they keep massed around there next week I will simply ignore them and march east.

Air losses at the end of my move. Especially Fighter losses are piling up at an unsustainable pace. Ju-88 high altitude recon planes have high losses as well.

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 12

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 3:57:57 PM

DekeFentle

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"On T2 I switched the Luftwaffe exclusively to Ground Support role. The logistics situation does not allow me to move the Luftwaffe forward, therefore with exception of deploying some fighter groups to places like Riga, the Luftwaffe must keep flying from East Prussian and Polish bases for now. The only missions flown during Air Phase were recon."

Can you please tell us a little more about what it takes to get the LW moved to forward bases? In WITE this was the Kabuki dance, I think I understand that's been eliminated with the adoption of the WITW air combat system. Specifically are you inferring that the build up of supply depots is necessary to provide operational air bases in SU territory? Do we also need to spend Admin Points? Any amount of additional information and or example would be greatly appreciated.

Some more discussion with regards to how you are manipulating/planning to supply your forward elements would be great!

Thank you for this excellent AAR.

_____________________________

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 13

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 4:30:13 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

Can you please tell us a little more about what it takes to get the LW moved to forward bases? In WITE this was the Kabuki dance, I think I understand that's been eliminated with the adoption of the WITW air combat system. Specifically are you inferring that the build up of supply depots is necessary to provide operational air bases in SU territory? Do we also need to spend Admin Points? Any amount of additional information and or example would be greatly appreciated.

Some more discussion with regards to how you are manipulating/planning to supply your forward elements would be great!

Moving groups is simple, you can base them on any airfield you control, however they need to have also air support squads, fuel and ammo at the base to be fully operational. So yes, you need to have supply depots that will provide all the needed stuff.
No to the admin points, rebasing is toll free.

Regarding moving supply forward I adopted (I believe)simple approach. Converting lines is not that different from WitE, just move the FBD unit forward. Of course double lines are being converted because have bigger throughput. Then I build depots in cities on that particular rail that have also railyard. You can build depot on place without railyard but you must then build one. I don't think it is worth while advancing fast, but different people have different opinions.

< Message edited by 821Bobo -- 2/4/2021 4:43:45 PM >

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 14

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 4:33:39 PM

DekeFentle

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Joined: 3/11/2019
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Zaborov! How did that hex flip to SU control? Do divisions flip ZOC from regiments/battalions?

_____________________________

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 15

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 4:46:40 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

Zaborov! How did that hex flip to SU control? Do divisions flip ZOC from regiments/battalions?

It didnt flip, enemy mechanized division have had enough movement points to sneak between my units.

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 16

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 4:57:12 PM

DekeFentle

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Joined: 3/11/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

Zaborov! How did that hex flip to SU control? Do divisions flip ZOC from regiments/battalions?

It didnt flip, enemy mechanized division have had enough movement points to sneak between my units.

Wow, in comparison to WITE1 that's a ton of MVP's...

_____________________________

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 17

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/4/2021 5:16:32 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

Zaborov! How did that hex flip to SU control? Do divisions flip ZOC from regiments/battalions?

It didnt flip, enemy mechanized division have had enough movement points to sneak between my units.

Wow, in comparison to WITE1 that's a ton of MVP's...

there is also a random element, Soviet morale and experience levels are randomised in the set up, so one game that unit might lack the morale for the move (the interaction of morale and ZoC moves is different to WiTE1), the next it cuts your supply lines.

So, yes, there is scope to study T1, explore options and so on, but even the best refined starts involve far more trade offs (& risks) than is the case in WiTE1

_____________________________

(in reply to DekeFentle)

Post #: 18

Week 3 - 2/7/2021 2:31:08 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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Turn 3, 6.7.1941

I have again suffered from a lack of troops in the West. I really must do something with it otherwise it may cost me victory. The regular flow of replacements should also help to end this problem.

Soviets started with the industry evacuation. Just as a note, there is little the Axis player can do about this.

No changes in the air, only recon mission were flown during the Air Phase.

As an unpleasant surprise came that Soviets managed to cut off most of the 4th Panzer Group in north. Though the southern pocket held, which is more important.

AGN

Enemy forces encircled in Lithuania in the first week were finally completely eliminated and all the AGN infantry is now free to march north. First infantry divisions are already approaching Pskov area.

Soviets retreating from around Pskov as expected, leaving garrison in the city. 4th Panzer Group storms the city, securing another 14 victory points.

14th Motorized Division is leading the way and only 4 hexes from Novgorod. I expect enemy will block the small bridgehead at Soltsy.

AGC

Picture below shows situation at the west bank of Dnepr at the week start. I have had to make decision if I should go for a pocket or grind. The necessity of crossing the river twice and multiple lines of defense would probably allow only for small encirclement. Grinding option was chosen. Note the two Panzer divisions I left resting. Attack value is double compared to the rest.

3rd Panzer Group completely cleared the Land Bridge and reached heavily guarded Smolensk. Seems this will be the first city I won't capture ahead of time and gain bonus points.

2nd Panzer Group crossed Dnepr at Orsha, established a large bridgehead and smashed many Soviet formations. One corps from that Group also crossed river south of Mogilev.

Far to the rear, the Bialystok pocket is mostly eliminated.

AGS

In the south, enemy forces kept blocking me from advancing directly towards Kiev, therefore I have been moving east where only a not very effective checkerboard defense was in place. But I might have overextended myself. If the Soviets don't panic then I expect I will have more problems with cut off units.

Southern pocket has been reduced but may take another one or two weeks to completely clearing it.

As a bonus, Romanians overrun corps HQ killing Malinovsky in the process.

Fighter losses still very high, 79 Bf-109F2 this week.

Weather forecast doesn't look good and in north and central sector it will be raining.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 19

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/7/2021 2:51:54 PM

RCHarmon

Posts: 322
Joined: 1/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

As the first turn is now essentially "longer" than in WitE1, the advances in the north seem to be proceeding at close to historical pace. I'm hoping the weather, road and logistics systems will be creating interesting obstacles for Manstein's ambitions in the north :) It always seemed to be a bit too easy to advance to and through the Luga line in WitE1, unless the Soviets really diverted a lot of units there.

Does the opening turn feel a lot like WitE1 or are there new quirks and tricks to consider? I'd expect the depot placement and covering the main railways early on will play a key role? Could you explain and demonstrate the depot creation and placement operations during the first few turns in some later report?

Deciding to have the south handled strictly by AGS seems to definitely have consequences, the Soviets can most likely press the supply on that spearhead really thin on their turn!

I guess the reasoning for the narrow breakthrough is to just secure the main rail line? I recall that one main objective in the south was to move the infantry east as quickly as possible, but you seem to have most of the AGS infantry tied on the pockets, especially the 6th army seems busy near Kovel. Do you feel the resistance in the south is tougher than in WitE1 or is this just a strategic choice?

What does this mean "first turn longer"???????????

(in reply to Nix77)

Post #: 20

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/7/2021 3:35:35 PM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

All turns are 1 week. The game is balanced as such and no turn gets played more than GC41 Axis T1. It is worth re-highlighting that difficult terrain like swamp and heavy woods with no roads is more expensive than WitE. Also the T1 rules are different.

This is absolutely not WitE after a haircut, a shower and wearing a new suit.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to RCHarmon)

Post #: 21

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/7/2021 4:57:10 PM

RCHarmon

Posts: 322
Joined: 1/19/2011
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If I am understanding RedLancer, The Axis GC first turn gets special rules. I think WITE opened a can of worms by having the same design decision. I would much rather see a random check among the Soviet forces that would remove certain amounts of movement points. This would reflect the surprise that the Axis had. Also, with random checks among the Soviet forces the Axis player wouldn't be able to search out the best initial opening. Am I not understanding the opening turn of the GC?

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 22

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/7/2021 5:36:44 PM

Wuffer

Posts: 402
Joined: 6/16/2011
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RCHarmon, Maybe it's me, but I couldn't follw you here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

Zaborov! How did that hex flip to SU control? Do divisions flip ZOC from regiments/battalions?

It didnt flip, enemy mechanized division have had enough movement points to sneak between my units.

Wow, in comparison to WITE1 that's a ton of MVP's...

there is also a random element, Soviet morale and experience levels are randomised in the set up, so one game that unit might lack the morale for the move (the interaction of morale and ZoC moves is different to WiTE1), the next it cuts your supply lines.

So, yes, there is scope to study T1, explore options and so on, but even the best refined starts involve far more trade offs (& risks) than is the case in WiTE1

I think they eliminated exactly that 'can of worms' of first generation WITE, e.g. the boring 'chess-like' libery of standard opening moves.

Bobo (great AAR btw, to Loki and your opponent, too) took a certain risk and the other side get lucky?

< Message edited by Wuffer -- 2/7/2021 5:37:49 PM >

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 23

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/7/2021 7:40:25 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

First thanks all who like the AARs

quote:

I think they eliminated exactly that 'can of worms' of first generation WITE, e.g. the boring 'chess-like' libery of standard opening moves.

Bobo (great AAR btw, to Loki and your opponent, too) took a certain risk and the other side get lucky?

Well there is certainly some luck involved, for example the bad weather that is currently coming. So in one game you can have nice and sunny through the whole summer and in other you can suffer from rain. But the summer rains are not so crippling, due to two types, light and heavy mud(and rain) and in summer you get with the light.
Or in the first turn when I was relying on some luck that enemy won't have enough MPs to cut off my southern spearhead.
With the fixed T1 setup(but the randomized condition Soviet units start the game) people will definitely come with some ideal openings. I know people want some randomization in Soviet deployment since WitE however that will just give the ball to the other side and players would come with ideal Soviet deployment. And because Grisby's games are long runs, even the most perfect opening(and it doesn't matter if it is WitP, WitW, WitE1/2) will not won the game for you.

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 24

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/8/2021 2:08:52 AM

Wuffer

Posts: 402
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And because Grisby's games are long runs, even the most perfect opening(and it doesn't matter if it is WitP, WitW, WitE1/2) will not won the game for you.

how true!
But not that many testers would be brave enough to publish a less than perfect first strike, like a little collision between Kaga und Akagi during the tora-brimborium. I like.
But maybe next time GHC will listen to their allies and have the fast Slovakian Brigade in place - btw, I hope seriously they improved that combat value a bit, no reason to believe that the Reich gave away modern equipment for nothing. :-D

< Message edited by Wuffer -- 2/8/2021 4:37:38 PM >

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 25

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/8/2021 7:13:57 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline

The Slovakian fast brigade is little more complicated. In game it starts frozen for first 2 turns. Historically, on June 22nd, ad hoc group called Rychla Skupina(Fast Group or Mobile Group, predecessor of the brigade) has been formed, officially transformed to Fast Brigade on July 7th. The ad hoc formation crossed Slovak-Polish borders on June 24th(first action saw on June 25th). But at the start it has been only battalion sized and in game term off map unit.

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 26

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/8/2021 12:08:58 PM

Nix77

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCHarmon
What does this mean "first turn longer"???????????

WitE1 first turn was 4 days, WitE2 it's 7 days. But I'm confident the WitE2 team have balanced this out carefully just like RedLancer stated, with the Axis T1 rules reflecting one aspect of this balancing act.

(in reply to RCHarmon)

Post #: 27

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/8/2021 9:45:41 PM

superian

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/21/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

From my experience I believe that bomb load does matter, in the end you don't need one ton bomb to destroy enemy plane on ground, 50kg will do the job just as well. Therefore all my planes will carry as many bombs as possible.

I have enormous respect for the people who play this, and its predecessor, however this is why I do not in just two sentences :)

Someone has to know what sort of bomb load a squadron will carry, but on a game of this scale, I do not want it to be me.

On this scale, I don't even want the system to care.

You'll be telling me that you can tell individual tanks what mix of main weapon ammo to carry next... and I suspect that if you can't, there will be some players moaning that you can't.

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 28

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/8/2021 11:13:13 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: superian

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

From my experience I believe that bomb load does matter, in the end you don't need one ton bomb to destroy enemy plane on ground, 50kg will do the job just as well. Therefore all my planes will carry as many bombs as possible.

I have enormous respect for the people who play this, and its predecessor, however this is why I do not in just two sentences :)

Someone has to know what sort of bomb load a squadron will carry, but on a game of this scale, I do not want it to be me.

On this scale, I don't even want the system to care.

You'll be telling me that you can tell individual tanks what mix of main weapon ammo to carry next... and I suspect that if you can't, there will be some players moaning that you can't.

(in reply to superian)

Post #: 29

RE: Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective) - 2/9/2021 12:01:59 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: superian
Someone has to know what sort of bomb load a squadron will carry, but on a game of this scale, I do not want it to be me.

On this scale, I don't even want the system to care.

You'll be telling me that you can tell individual tanks what mix of main weapon ammo to carry next... and I suspect that if you can't, there will be some players moaning that you can't.

You really do not need to care. I've been playing throughout development and have never changed the bomb load, still did well and had plenty of fun.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to superian)

Post #: 30

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