Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

What do you guys think? Is this crazy overpowered or do you think it's fine?

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ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Okay so preliminary testing seems to feel like it's even easier to destroy the Serb corps in Cetinje than the detachment, given that you pay to rail over the German HQ (can even be Hindenberg if you are sadistic).

Analysis: This may temporarily leave the German forces weaker in East Prussia or Poland, but considering that Serbia doubled down on the defense of Montenegro (they desperately need that corps they just lost) I think it's probably worth it. Serbia losing Montenegro AND their best corps on turn 2 is brutal.

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ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Brilliant! Another Gambit!

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ORIGINAL: Tendraline

The point about Albania is pretty moot, as you could always declare war on it later with better preparation. If you could destroy Montenegro within two turns, unless the situation on another front is really pressing, you could probably destroy Albania in two more turns. As a result, I can only imagine that the Allied situation in the Balkans gets unbelievably dire. Plus 11 less MPPs for Russia either way.

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ORIGINAL: mdsmall


The game has some strong built-in incentives to deter the Central Powers from declaring war on Albania, if it remains neutral (which it will if Montenegro surrenders before the Albanian civil war script fires on September 10, 1914). Bulgaria will swing 10-20% towards the Entente and Greece, the Ottoman Empire and Italy will all swing 10-25% towards the Entente. As tempting as it is to attack southern Serbia through Albania, most CP players will find that too high a penalty to pay in 1914.

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ORIGINAL: Tendraline
On the other hand, I'm confused when you say that the city's "hex bonus" disappears if you surround it on all three hexes.

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ORIGINAL: Bavre

Fascinating stuff guys!

A few observations from me:

Operating in the Serbian Corps doesn't seem to be a good idea. It goes down just as easily, is urgently needed elsewhere and all Montenegrin units disband after surrender, even outside Montenegro! (Bug or feature?) That means CP kills 3 units for the price of one.

I can also confirm the effect Chernobyl described. Did a test in Belgrade. To trigger you need to occupy all eligible surrounding hexes, just cutting the city off is not enough. So in case of Belgrade you will see the (+2DB) effect on the defenders side vanish only after you put the sixth unit into the ring.

And while we are at gambitting, how about doubling down and using the early kill of Serbia to go after Greece? Pisses of USA and Bulgaria (historically kind of weird, so only do it after Bulgaria joins), but has its advantages: With good unit placement (Cav in the southeast corner of Serbia) you can overrun both the Saloniki and Larissa spawn areas and forcemarch your troops to the doorstep of Athens. Quickly gaining the greek harbors also makes not having the albanian one much less of an issue.

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ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

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ORIGINAL: Bavre

Fascinating stuff guys!

A few observations from me:

Operating in the Serbian Corps doesn't seem to be a good idea. It goes down just as easily, is urgently needed elsewhere and all Montenegrin units disband after surrender, even outside Montenegro! (Bug or feature?) That means CP kills 3 units for the price of one.

I can also confirm the effect Chernobyl described. Did a test in Belgrade. To trigger you need to occupy all eligible surrounding hexes, just cutting the city off is not enough. So in case of Belgrade you will see the (+2DB) effect on the defenders side vanish only after you put the sixth unit into the ring.

And while we are at gambitting, how about doubling down and using the early kill of Serbia to go after Greece? Pisses of USA and Bulgaria (historically kind of weird, so only do it after Bulgaria joins), but has its advantages: With good unit placement (Cav in the southeast corner of Serbia) you can overrun both the Saloniki and Larissa spawn areas and forcemarch your troops to the doorstep of Athens. Quickly gaining the greek harbors also makes not having the albanian one much less of an issue.

Alas! I suffered the Greek Gambit also from a regular and crafty opponent (I've mention him before and he can claim his prize if he wants haha)...right after Bulgaria got in and Serbia fell..Greece entered the war..I had UK and French units as a scratch force ready to be transported into Greece's ports.

Well, they did..spread over Greece like butter spread thin on toast...which is exactly what happened to my Entente scratch force...Toast. Supply was terrible, the roads were bad, and the rough terrain, while beneficial, also slowed my up my deployments. Bulgarian artillery and CP cavalry messed up each successive defense line I put up.

When Kalamata in the Peloponnese fell, all I had left for Greece was Mudros, Crete, and Corfu...Corfu which fell later on. Rough times were at hand for the Entente....
Remember it all, vividly.

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ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

So this picture is the situation in Serbia on the Central Powers' second turn of the game. The Entente has had a chance to reinforce the Cetinje garrison to strength 10 (this is more effective on defense than entrenching). There is no corps which can make it to Cetinje so this is the best possible defense. All total there are six units which can attack Cetinje: two German corps, two Austrian corps, one Austrian cavalry and one German detachment.

And this is enough to give the Central Powers a 100%* success rate in destroying the Cetinje detachment. Montenegro surrenders. In order to accomplish this, the Germans had to rail down two corps and a detachment, the Austrians sent a cavalry and an extra infantry corps down there. The Austrians still have enough troops to attack Serbian positions defending the Pec-Nish line.

*I haven't failed in this attack in my playtesting (15+ tries) EXCEPT if I save the game after a bunch of really bad attack rolls. And even then it still usually works. I do pay to upgrade the Austrian general and if your initial attacks are poor you could in theory rail in a German HQ for one turn just to give a boost for a complete guarantee (you can actually rail the HQ in and assign it to units on the same turn)


Here are the pros and cons:

PROS:
-Centrals plunder like 30-40 MPP
-Immediate income increase from a nice capital city which eventually gives 20 base mpp
-Serbia loses its two largest sources of income immediately (French supply and Cetinje city)
-Serbia takes NM losses enough to knock them down one level of unit morale (sub 95%)
-Montenegro loses their detachment and probably the other detachment too (could possibly run away with the second detachment but that has downsides**)
-Montenegro never spawns its Sanjak corps and never spawns a HQ
-Nice supply route open for Austria to use to push into the Serbian mountains later
-Because this severely weakens Serbian strength so quickly (one turn kill that eliminates 3-4 units), you have the option to rail out the units you sent down sooner than other strategies which take longer to develop
-You gain quick access to a nifty port which helps you control the Adriatic better

CONS:
-Albania never joins. You miss out on about 12MPP per turn from annexing Albania and conquering Serbia is slightly more difficult due to not being able to use Albanian hexes to maneuver
-You have to sell tech to rail in 2 corps and a detachment.
-These units could be useful in France or in Russia immediately. You have to pay to rail them there and then pay to rail them out, also repair these units too.

** If you allow Cetinje to be surrounded completely from all three sides, attacks against the city get some sort of bonus and it falls more quickly. This is not due to supply but caused by some kind of surround defense factor which seems to eliminate the city hex bonus when there are three enemy units next to it.

What do you guys think? Is this crazy overpowered or do you think it's fine?

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ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Stockwellpete,

It's the same deal as Trento and other towns sited on hills or mountains. You don't get the terrain bonus on a town resource hex.

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ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

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ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Stockwellpete,

It's the same deal as Trento and other towns sited on hills or mountains. You don't get the terrain bonus on a town resource hex.

Hmmm. OK then. 2 other thoughts occur to me. What if hex 183,99 to the north of Cetinje is changed from hills to mountains? The supply it gives as hills is 9, what would it be as mountains? And the Austrians are currently given a full strength Infantry Corps at Ragusa at the start of the game, which immediately attacks Cetinje in SP. Could that Infantry Corps be moved elsewhere and an Austrian Detachment be put at Ragusa?

I don't think you can stop an early assault on Cetinje if the CP player is determined to make it - and it is a legitimate alt-history gambit, but it needs to be a bit more difficult, I feel.

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ORIGINAL: Bavre


It is a hex with rail, so supply would not change.

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ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

The game as its designed for the early turns is set up historical in most cases...which is good. The simple solution would be the inability to sell chits on turn 1, but that could take away the creativity and flexibility that some of us gambit artists love.

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ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

How about if the Montenegrin Detachment starts entrenched, does that increase its survivability?