Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: BoA

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> RE: BoA Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: BoA - 2/14/2021 6:56:07 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		They are not useless. Don't you notice I am not scoring like before on MMs?

And that my subs are taking more step losses.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 31
RE: BoA - 2/14/2021 7:02:51 PM   
Nirosi

 

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline 		I think that anything under 1 escort for 5 MM brings a penalty (unless you reach 10 escorts). Those convoy lanes do not seem very well protected under 10 escorts. At 10 escorts on a lane (11 for spares) there should be a very visible difference from the games I have played.

< Message edited by Nirosi -- 2/14/2021 7:07:33 PM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 32
RE: BoA - 2/14/2021 9:44:46 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		I suspect (since I don't know actual odds used) that the variation we see is the "snake eyes" problem. The odds of a hit are so low that its is like throwing snakes eyes multiple times on a pair of dice. The odds are very low but then someone does it turn after turn. In the old days you could knock the game board, say oops, guess we will have to start over.

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 33
RE: BoA - 2/14/2021 10:57:19 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		It might be a luck issue, or bad play issue, or just exactly what it should be. I'm not saying the results are wrong, just confusing to my current understanding. For example why are escorts so easy to take out, but subs aren't?

But I have likely not calibrated to some changes...yet.

< Message edited by MorningDew -- 2/14/2021 11:52:43 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 34
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 5:48:29 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

CVs and DDs still feel like playing whack-a-mole - UBoats just move more than 24 hexes away. I wish the UBoats lost effectiveness in attacks after they move or that their attack occurred when the Allies turn ends, not begins, allowing the Allies to respond to UBoat movements.


If U-Boats move more than 24 hexes than they only do half damage, but take full damage if they are hit.

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 35
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 6:26:50 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

Next turn, same result. Zero damage to Uboats. My escorts whoever are taking losses regularly.

Trying to understand if this is WAD and to be expected, it is WAD and I am doing something wrong, or something is wrong.

This is with the most recent beta BTW.





My 2 observations about the BOA:

1. There is a lot of luck involved. In most games the U-boats (mine or my opponents) will for several turns in a row sink large numbers of MS and escorts every turn. Then for several turns in a row they will sink vey few MS and escorts while taking hits themselves. Then it will switch back again. So the luck seems to go back and forth until finally (usually in 42 or 43) the escorts seem to consistently score more U-Boat hits then they lose MS and escorts. But in a minority of games it seems like either the U-Boats are having happy hunting from the beginning until the end, or else they do terrible right from the get go.

2.The number of escorts has absolutely no effect on how many MS get sunk. So the job of escorts is not to "protect" the convoys in the sense of reducing the number of MS sunk. The sole job of the escorts is to get more hits on the U-Boats than escort sunk. This is very difficult to do until tech level 43 is reached. It is impossible to do unless you always use the maximum number of escorts. So if I only have say 14 escorts I would not put 7 in each of the North Atlantic and South Atlantic because the odds of my 7 escorts sinking more U-Boats than escorts lost is not good. So I am just going to lose in both zones. Instead I will put 14 in one convoy zone and put 0 in the other. This increases my chances of getting hits on the U-Boats in one of the convoy zones while making sure I am not outnumbered in any zone. It is especially useful to put extra (ie more than 10) escorts in a convoy zone where I know my opponent will get 2 attacks because there are 2 convoys operating. This way I will get 2 chances at maximum effectiveness and if I lose some escorts in the first attack I will still have 10 for the 2nd attack.

So applying what I said to your screenshot, I would say that your opponent only sinking 5 MS with 2 attacks of 3 subs is actually pretty poor shooting by him. I think an "average" turn is if the U-Boats sink 1.33 MS per U-Boat attack. So that would be 8 MS. I am not sure why you only had 7 escorts; if it is because that is all the escorts you have, or if it is because you split them up between 2 or more zones. Either way, I just wouldn't use 7 escorts because the odds are very good that I will lose more escorts than I will sink U-Boats. So I am not surprised that your 7 escorts did not score any hits. This does mean that some times it is a bit of a guessing game as to whether the German is going to raid the NA or the SA, but that is Ok, that is part of the cat and mouse fun of the game.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 2/15/2021 6:57:37 AM >

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 36
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 6:40:14 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MorningDew

I am clearly missing something about the BOA. My convoy escort advancement is 1943, Detection 1942, 9 escorts + bonus and I continuously fail to have any impact on subs.







MorningDew, Detection & Electronics tech does not benefit escorts at all. It is only useful for aircraft with that advancement. I notice that you have invested in SB so I assume you have built some strategic bombers. If so you may want to convert some of them to "Detection and Electronics" and use them to hunt subs.

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 37
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 6:42:24 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

They are not useless. Don't you notice I am not scoring like before on MMs?

And that my subs are taking more step losses.


The escorts have no effect on the number of MS sunk. However, I think Alvaro has built something into the game so that MS become more difficult to sink as the game progresses.

Am I right Alvaro?

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 38
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 6:42:53 AM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nirosi

I think that anything under 1 escort for 5 MM brings a penalty (unless you reach 10 escorts). Those convoy lanes do not seem very well protected under 10 escorts. At 10 escorts on a lane (11 for spares) there should be a very visible difference from the games I have played.



+1

(in reply to Nirosi)
Post #: 39
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 11:31:28 AM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		Thanks all - a heavier investment in escorts early and often it is then.

_____________________________


(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 40
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 12:14:36 PM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		Latest Beta I have found now that the U-boats have to be used very cleverly and you have to pay as the Germans to go after a good BoA, it's not cheap. Though it forces the Allies to do all this:

Invest in ASW, Buy Escorts, Buy Convoys, watch their oil(for the UK early) These actions keep the RN at sea hunting you, which is just irritating for him and he will end up buying oilers. The Allies really need to add in their Air too and garrison all of the Islands that can be navally invaded(cause they would make ideal refueling bases for the Axis Subs that are not wounded)


(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 41
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 12:21:40 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		Seems like a realistic set of decisions. Goes towards balancing the game too.

_____________________________


(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 42
RE: BoA - 2/15/2021 6:46:24 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		I think that in my games, anytime there are 10+ escorts, they seem to get more damaging "hits" to the subs. At 9 or less escorts, it seems like a noticeable drop-off in UBoat damage. I wonder if there is a built-in "bonus" when 10 escorts attack a sub?

_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to MorningDew)
Post #: 43
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> RE: BoA Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.203