RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:16:54 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

China

Huzzah! I think the In Place was a red herring. When I click compute I get the resource going to Kweiyang!

That immediately increases the CW BP from 7 to 8 so we are moving in the right direction. We can see that only 1 convoy point has been used for this too.

But what effect has it had on China?

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 11:18:20 AM >

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Post #: 91

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:21:20 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

China

When I click on China its all good!! 3 BP still showing and the trade coming from Malaya and not Coventry.

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Post #: 92

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:22:00 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

USSR

So I stick with Centuur's advice and don't close China, but simply switch to the next least complex Major Power.

No need to show this as all is good. The USSR started with 4 saved oil. They add another one this turn and have 8 BP. No resources are idle and the max oil for a neutral Major Power is saved.

USA

Exactly the same with the USA. 11 BP, 1 oil saved (making 5 in total) and 1 resource idle (Philippines). I have convoys heading west to cure that idle problem.

And so we come to the two problem children.....

France

France started the turn with 2 saved oils and that is what is showing. In this turn the French benefit from CW largesse and are due to receive 1 oil and 3 resources in addition to the oil from Persia.

But the program's opening gambit is as follows:

the FIC resource is idle, 1 oil is saved and 1 to production, giving 6 BP. Let's see what we can do to improve this situation.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 11:33:53 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 93

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:40:16 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

France

Okay so I know that I could get the FIC resource to France last turn so I attempt to do that this turn. However the program won't change the resource from idle. I switch the map to show the convoys and click unused convoys. The reason the resource isn't getting to France is immediately apparent.....

So I am going to have to switch to the CW and see what is happening.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 11:44:15 AM >

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Post #: 94

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:48:10 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

Commonwealth

There appears to be few unused convoys and only 4 idle resources. I suspect that there must be some less than optimal routing going on....

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Post #: 95

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 11:49:09 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

Commonwealth

So, remembering the lessons of the first turn, I start with the oil first.

Unlike the Japanese - whose NEI oil reverted to its former home, most of the CW instructions for oil have remained in their changed format - which is good. However two that haven't are also NEI oil. These are going to the UK to be saved - and taking up 8 convoys each....

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 11:53:41 AM >

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Post #: 96

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 12:00:03 PM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

Commonwealth

The effect is immediate. There are now only two idle resources for the CW - the 2 Australian and we know there are no convoys for these.

Furthermore, when I switch back to France, the Hanoi FIC resource is now being sent to a French factory.

So we could leave it there. However, the CW are saving 5 oils to give them 12. They only have 9 BP this turn. There are four idle factories in the UK. Can we improve the CW economy at the expense of some surplus oil?

I don't think so. I will post a game save here and ask Centuur and rkr1958 if they can achieve that goal.

Brief: Is there any way of increasing the CW production at the expense of oil? I don't believe there is but you guys might spot something obvious I've missed.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 2:16:26 PM >

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Post #: 97

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 12:16:29 PM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

And so subject to any commentary from Centuur and rkr1958, the position is:

France

France started with 2 oil saved and have saved the Iraq oil in Beirut once again for a total of 3. 13 producing resources gives 7 BP. 1 resource remains idle as there are no convoys all the way out to New Caledonia.

Commonwealth

The CW started with 7 oils and have saved another 5 for 12. There are 2 idle resources in Australia as there are no convoys out there. The BP total 9 this turn.

So I now start closing down the Allied forms.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 12:21:50 PM >

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 12:31:08 PM

warspite1

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I will continue with the EoT once Centuur and rkr1958 have opined.

Meanwhile a question. If one puts convoys to sea and the program decides that it can't be arsed to put on Sentry, what is the latest time for amending this? I'm at PP stage and can't see how I can do it......

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/27/2021 12:33:55 PM >

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Post #: 99

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 5:05:59 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I will continue with the EoT once Centuur and rkr1958 have opined.

Meanwhile a question. If one puts convoys to sea and the program decides that it can't be arsed to put on Sentry, what is the latest time for amending this? I'm at PP stage and can't see how I can do it......

You can set a convoy to sentry at the stay at sea phase (but beware and make sure the convoy stays at sea if you click on it). On the main form, you can see if a units stays at sea or returns to base.

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Post #: 100

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 6:03:53 PM

Centuur

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You've got maximum production.

But there are things you can do better...

First: let France sent the Indo Chinese resource to China and not the CW (during the lending stage). Send a fourth non oil resource from the CW to France. This saves a convoy point for the Wallies. And if you send a US convoy point into the South China Sea, you can send the one out of the Phillipines to China (that's even better).

Second: look at the resources which are being send to France. They are coming out of the UK and Canada. Those are not the best ones to be send to France. If you send the Cyprus and two Indian resources to France, check what is happening with the number of unused convoys.

Now you can return to base 29 unused convoy points. Next turn you will be able to send resources out of Australia to Europe, simply by giving France non oil resources out of the east...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 2/27/2021 6:08:10 PM >

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 7:34:24 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I will continue with the EoT once Centuur and rkr1958 have opined.

Meanwhile a question. If one puts convoys to sea and the program decides that it can't be arsed to put on Sentry, what is the latest time for amending this? I'm at PP stage and can't see how I can do it......

I'm tied up (figuratively not literally) this weekend and will defer to Master Centuur for this turn.

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Ronnie

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 8:06:31 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I will continue with the EoT once Centuur and rkr1958 have opined.

Meanwhile a question. If one puts convoys to sea and the program decides that it can't be arsed to put on Sentry, what is the latest time for amending this? I'm at PP stage and can't see how I can do it......

I'm tied up (figuratively not literally) this weekend and will defer to Master Centuur for this turn.

warspite1

Will do

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/27/2021 8:19:21 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

You've got maximum production.

But there are things you can do better...

First: let France sent the Indo Chinese resource to China and not the CW (during the lending stage). Send a fourth non oil resource from the CW to France. This saves a convoy point for the Wallies. And if you send a US convoy point into the South China Sea, you can send the one out of the Phillipines to China (that's even better).

Second: look at the resources which are being send to France. They are coming out of the UK and Canada. Those are not the best ones to be send to France. If you send the Cyprus and two Indian resources to France, check what is happening with the number of unused convoys.

Now you can return to base 29 unused convoy points. Next turn you will be able to send resources out of Australia to Europe, simply by giving France non oil resources out of the east...

warspite1

Thank-you.

The second point is pertinent here and I will explore this next (I have to re-do the PP stage because of the sentry issue anyway).

The first point (if I have read you correctly) is that you are saying the CW could have chosen to send 4 non-oil resources the previous turn? If so that is good info - and useful in terms of how a player can think about the convoys - but not important for this exercise. That would mean working out what would be optimal for every turn and that is not what this is trying to achieve. Happy to receive these comments though because its all useful MWIF knowledge.

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/28/2021 5:26:53 AM

warspite1

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Well here's another new MWIF experience. I was working through the game and when I went back into the program I got this. This is a first....

Any one got any ideas what I do now please?

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 2/28/2021 4:36:17 PM

warspite1

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Problem now sorted I think. I'll pick up again in the week with a view to doing turn 3 next weekend.

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/5/2021 4:19:53 PM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

So let's look at the effect of Centuur's suggestion on the Allied convoys.

Although we have the maximum production/oil saving, we don't have the most efficient use of convoys.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/5/2021 4:21:37 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 107

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/5/2021 4:28:58 PM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

By switching the resources lent to France to Cyprus and India, there is an immediate saving of 6 convoys points.

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/5/2021 4:30:25 PM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Preliminary Planning

Comfortable I have the maximum BP and oil for the convoys in place, I now start closing down the forms.

Sadly I have to call a temporary halt again as when I got to Finalise Production, the two Soviet traded oil I placed to Save had gone to idle

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/5/2021 4:45:59 PM >

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 8:12:16 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Finalise Production (FP)

Germany

So I go back to the auto saved for US entry and run through again. I now get back to FP stage and am pleased to say that Germany looks good this time. Saved Oil Points are 2 (three at the end of Sep/Oct less the one used for reorganisation). And 5 controlled - that is the addition of the 3 saved this turn (see below).

Note the screenshot below is with the oil filter (bottom left hand box) ticked on. All 5 oil should be in Berlin and to check I click on 'Controlled' in the bottom box below. I will check this at the start of next turn to ensure the map ties up with the form.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/6/2021 8:22:28 AM >

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 8:24:47 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Finalise Production (FP)

Italy

Italy remains straightforward at this stage. 3 oils - all saved in Milan. Italy will join the war next turn.

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 8:33:34 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Finalise Production (FP)

Japan

I click on Saved oil Points - Controlled for Japan and this shows the 6 oil from the end of Sep/Oct + 2 saved this turn. There was no oil required for reorganisation.

Again I will need to check the map, but there should be oils in:
Sapporo x 2, Sendai, Tokyo, Nagoya, Yokohama and Canton x 2

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Post #: 112

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 8:35:45 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Finalise Production (FP)

China

I don't bother showing China. All is as it should be with its one saved oil in Chungking.

Commonwealth

The Commonwealth looks good too. The saved at the start is 5 and controlled is 10. If you recall these numbers were 7 and 12 respectively at the Preliminary Production stage. The Commonwealth used 2 oil this turn to feed its navy.

There is a limit on oil storage for ports/cities/capitals and also there is a danger that oil is placed where it may be lost to enemy activity. The oil used for reorganisation was the 2 oil saved in Singapore in Sep/Oct. Oil is saved at:

Manchester, Coventry, Amman x 2, Rangoon x 2, Port of Spain x 2, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/6/2021 8:42:05 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 8:44:58 AM

warspite1

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Nov/Dec 1939
Finalise Production (FP)

France

France is all good. No oil points expended and so a continued 1-point increase in the saved oil.

United States and Soviet Union

No need to show either of these neutrals. They are on maximum production as per the PP screenshots 11 and 8 respectively with the maximum 1 oil saved (now up to 5 each) and no oil reorganisation required.

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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/6/2021 8:47:01 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 114

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 9:11:34 AM

warspite1

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Jan/Feb 1940

So far so good. I have checked all the oil locations and the map detail matches to the forms. Both the French and Soviets saved a build point - Toulouse and Moscow respectively.

So during this turn the Italians are going to enter the war and there will be some submarine action to try and break up the Western Allies comfortable convoys.

This will also allow some Germany to Italy trade agreement so that I can see if I can replicate the oil saved problems encountered in recent games.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/6/2021 9:53:14 AM >

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/6/2021 7:13:49 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before. If so, I apologize for the redundancy.

China should save the oil with which it starts the game far to the west: Kasgar or Urumchi. There it will be safe from Axis attacks and the temptation to use/waste it for production.

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/7/2021 8:07:40 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before. If so, I apologize for the redundancy.

China should save the oil with which it starts the game far to the west: Kasgar or Urumchi. There it will be safe from Axis attacks and the temptation to use/waste it for production.

warspite1

As said to Centuur, if people want to chip in with their comments around the wider subject then of course they are welcome. However, this is not the focus of this thread.

I think it should be pointed out that saved oil can be moved. I will do that with the Chinese oil in line with the comments above.

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/7/2021 8:08:56 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi Steve - that's great. Just a couple of suggested amendments. Could we say (amendments suggested underlined):

"Oil received in trade this turn can't be used to reorganize units and isn't listed here. If 0.5 or less of an oil point remains, the entire oil point must be expended. Oil fully expended to reorganize units can't be be saved or used in production and so may affect your preliminary production planning".

I don't know whether there is space for this but just wanted to make the latter point in particular clear. This would stop a player thinking the program was at fault if he/she suddenly lost a build point or two between PP and finalisation - and not realising that oil usage in reorganisation can affect that planning.

warspite1

Steve - did you have any thoughts on this please?

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RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/7/2021 8:13:26 AM

warspite1

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Question for Centuur and rkr1958

So on the first impulse of the Jan/Feb turn the Italians join the war and get lucky with attacks on the Allied convoys in the Med.

When something like this happens what action (if any) do you as the Allied player take?

My immediate thought would be to start checking the PP screens and seeing what effect the convoy loss has had. However, I am (rightly or wrongly) loathe to play around too much with the PP screen at this time because the program seems quite temperamental and sensitive to changes out of time.

Keen to know your thoughts please so that I can then do the next Allied impulse.

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Post #: 119

RE: Centuur and rkr1958: a production masterclass - 3/7/2021 10:00:01 AM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Question for Centuur and rkr1958

So on the first impulse of the Jan/Feb turn the Italians join the war and get lucky with attacks on the Allied convoys in the Med.

When something like this happens what action (if any) do you as the Allied player take?

My immediate thought would be to start checking the PP screens and seeing what effect the convoy loss has had. However, I am (rightly or wrongly) loathe to play around too much with the PP screen at this time because the program seems quite temperamental and sensitive to changes out of time.

Keen to know your thoughts please so that I can then do the next Allied impulse.

What I usually do is to see how much of the convoy line can be repaired, using surplus convoy points (and you have a lot of those now). Of course, you can look into the production planning form, but I would not make any changes to production at this stage. That's because next Axis impulse, the Axis might invoke more losses of convoys and that might mess up the changes you've made again.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 120