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Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 8:02:22 AM   
Hano

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/5/2009
Status: offline 		Is there a way of gaining intel on enemy forces on an island? I'm fighting in the Solomons I dont have much air recce, most of the Japanese held Islands have CoastWatchers, but I have little or no idea of what I'm facing on the ground. I can see that the air vapacity has been developed which I take as an indicator of occuppation in force, but cant tell anything more.

Is there a way of finding out that is within the spirit of the game, what I dont want to do is drop a unit in by air or beach landing to have the wiped out but gain a picture of whats on the island.

Historically air recon would gain an indication of activity levels but it would be down to boots on the ground to gain that bigger picture.

Is there a way to do this in the game?
Post #: 1
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 8:17:30 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Of course there is a way of doing it in the game. It is all explained in detail in the manual. There is no difference in getting recon from an island base than from a base on a continental land mass. Why do you think there is a difference?

Of the several places in the manual where this is discussed, the most important discussion is found on pages 150-154, 158, 201 and 217-221.

Alfred

(in reply to Hano)
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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 9:45:46 AM   
Hano

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Alfred,

I think that we are talking at cross purposes here.

In the real world Air Recon would not be sufficient, it would be boots on the ground.

In the game is there a way of doing this in the game that doesnt telegraph the punch so as to speak?

H

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 9:49:14 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

what I dont want to do is drop a unit in by air or beach landing to have the wiped out but gain a picture of whats on the island.


Why not?

You might want to read up on the activities of the Australian independent companies in what would now be called "close reconnaissance".

Also the obstacle clearance divers who once planted a rather memorable sign on a famous beach.

Think of the lost squads as operational cost.

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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:01:29 AM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		That is rather cavalier use of assets...at least in Western armies...

But nothing stops you sending small commando/para teams by submarine to see who the defenders are. Apart from house rule prohibiting it...

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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:10:13 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

That is rather cavalier use of assets...at least in Western armies...

But nothing stops you sending small commando/para teams by submarine to see who the defenders are. Apart from house rule prohibiting it...


And that, indeed, is what I am referring to - a few commando-para squads transported by Black Cat or SST, buys you a 1 day snapshot of what is there. It's war, not a game of football.




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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:22:51 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Would be hard to get volunteers for missions like that in real life if they went like in WitP-AE...

But they were certainly done in WW II Pacific...just not as Shock attacks with few squads vs. division. Small team reconnaissance was indeed performed regularly by USMC Raiders and USN UDT etc.

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Post #: 7
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:25:51 AM   
Hano

 

Posts: 77
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Status: offline 		Point taken - but what small teams are available, I'm in Mar 43 and the smallest teams available are the Aus Independent Companies.

Thats a big group to lose are there any smaller groups that become available? If so at what stage?

They cant be broken down further

< Message edited by Hano -- 2/24/2021 10:26:48 AM >

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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:32:14 AM   
Ian R

 

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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Would be hard to get volunteers for missions like that in real life if they went like in WitP-AE...

But they were certainly done in WW II Pacific...just not as Shock attacks with few squads vs. division. Small team reconnaissance was indeed performed regularly by USMC Raiders and USN UDT etc.


You never saw Spyforce starring Jack Thompson, did you? Those blokes had Black Cat pit stops with spare fuel set up all the way from Sumatra to Irian Jaya.

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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:32:44 AM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hano

Point taken - but what small teams are available, I'm in Mar 43 and the smallest teams available are the Aus Independent Companies.

Thats a big group to lose are there any smaller groups that become available? If so at what stage?

They cant be broken down further


You can just load a sub, it cannot load full company. Then use that fragment to do recce.

You will lose it if it meets opposition, but parent unit will recover to full strength if having replacements in pool.

Note that not all units can be sub transported in combat mode, only those that are Commando or Paratrooper, both use same symbol. I don't think it works with transporting in strategic mode, not sure.

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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Post #: 10
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 10:39:12 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hano

Point taken - but what small teams are available, I'm in Mar 43 and the smallest teams available are the Aus Independent Companies.

Thats a big group to lose are there any smaller groups that become available? If so at what stage?

They cant be broken down further


Serious answer - take a Catalina group, put it on 90% rest (or search or whatever) leaving 10% main mission, and get it to deposit a few squads of para marines to get some recon.

There are Australian units also capable of these sorts of ops. The key is matching your unit to the transport. Paras work best off seaplanes* (typically the Cats). Marine raiders, and Aus/NZ-Fiji commandos, work better from SSTs. Try some air transport and get a feel for what is possible, although marine raiders are really best working from SSTs, and the rest are happy either way.

*I am not talking about full unit operational drops - that is a different subject, and requires masses of well trained transport groups that you don't have before 1944.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/24/2021 10:44:37 AM >

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RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 12:27:30 PM   
Hano

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Guys thats brilliant, food for thought!

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 12
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 1:01:52 PM   
Ian R

 

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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hano

Thanks Guys thats brilliant, food for thought!


Chew some more:

- one of your flying boat lifted recons actually finds an empty base

- next day you start flying in a base force and some AV

- you move some fighters in for CAP

- you get some engineers and supply in, build the air base to level 2

- you bring in some patrol planes and a VMSB group

The VMSB group is the key component. On naval strike with a small search percentage it can dominate the sea space, unless the enemy send a large carrier group. Supply as always is important.

Edit - early on SST and air supply might suffice, but eventually, you might want to invest in an "operation Pedastal" type resupply.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/24/2021 1:09:24 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 1:32:40 PM   
RhinoDad


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Joined: 12/22/2020
Status: offline 		Sorry, but what is a VMSB air group?

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Post #: 14
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 1:39:52 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		V - heaVier than air
M - Marine
S - Scout
B - Bomber

I am talking about land based SBD dauntless groups.

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Post #: 15
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 1:43:59 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Rhino -

a CV is a "Cruiser heaVier than air aircraft carrying"



< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/24/2021 2:45:41 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Recce of Islands - 2/24/2021 2:18:48 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Ian's explanations are not even necessary.

A VMSB unit is one which is so named. They aren't difficult to locate in the game.

Alfred

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 17
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