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RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal

 
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RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/22/2021 7:45:15 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hagel zu den Donnervögeln!


BTW, since I don't speak German I'd appreciate a translation.


You may not speak it, but can you understand any of it?

Hail to the Thunderbirds!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 61
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/22/2021 9:57:00 PM   
Dan1977

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/28/2021
Status: offline 		Rusty,
Copy & paste into Google Translate. That is what I did, when RJ posted the third stanza of the German National Anthem earlier. My search revealed that this 3rd stanza is currently legal in Germany, whereas the 1st & 2nd stanzas are not used. The latest German phrase is :"Hail to the Thunderbird", which is the US 45th Division.

< Message edited by Dan1977 -- 3/22/2021 9:59:09 PM >

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Post #: 62
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/22/2021 10:15:09 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1977

Rusty,
Copy & paste into Google Translate. That is what I did, when RJ posted the third stanza of the German National Anthem earlier. My search revealed that this 3rd stanza is currently legal in Germany, whereas the 1st & 2nd stanzas are not used. The latest German phrase is :"Hail to the Thunderbird", which is the US 45th Division.


The second stanza is used but is not legally protected. It does have some nice ideas though.

Some non-German singers do sing the first stanza in Germany and they usually get booed.

Hagel zum Frauleins und Wien!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dan1977)
Post #: 63
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 8:30:50 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Only the third stanza is used in the German national anthem. The 1st and 2nd are not used, but they are also not illegal and fall under cultural freedom.

The first stanza is no longer used for obvious reason as it hails Germany above everything else and says that it's Borders are from the river "Maas" to the river "Memel" and from the river "Etsch" to the river "Belt". A quick google search will tell you that none of these rivers currently lie in or border Germany.
So singing this stanza as the national anthem could lead to some troubled looks from the neighbors.
And singing it will also not get you any friends in Germany, most Germans will react very negatively to it, except for the few Nazis we still have here.

The second stanza is less problematic and mostly deals with German Woman and German Values. But it also has a strong nationalist ring to it, so most Germans today will also react negatively if they hear it.

The third stanza deals with freedom and unity for the Germans and is used in the national anthem for that reason.







(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 64
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 2:40:05 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		The areas denoted in the first stanza are for areas that predominately spoke German or at least had a high percentage of German speakers at that time the song was written. It is actually an Austrian song if I remember. At the time the song was written, the country called Germany did not exist.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/23/2021 2:57:31 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 65
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 3:32:49 PM   
Ambassador

 

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The areas denoted in the first stanza are for areas that predominately spoke German or at least had a high percentage of German speakers at that time the song was written. It is actually an Austrian song if I remember. At the time the song was written, the country called Germany did not exist.

The music is Haydn’s, originally composed for a poem celebrating the birthday of Emperor Franz II, so Austrian indeed.

However, the text was written forty years later by a German poet (Hoffmann, I believe ?).

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 66
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 3:40:58 PM   
Ambassador

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

Only the third stanza is used in the German national anthem. The 1st and 2nd are not used, but they are also not illegal and fall under cultural freedom.

The first stanza is no longer used for obvious reason as it hails Germany above everything else and says that it's Borders are from the river "Maas" to the river "Memel" and from the river "Etsch" to the river "Belt". A quick google search will tell you that none of these rivers currently lie in or border Germany.
So singing this stanza as the national anthem could lead to some troubled looks from the neighbors.
And singing it will also not get you any friends in Germany, most Germans will react very negatively to it, except for the few Nazis we still have here.

The second stanza is less problematic and mostly deals with German Woman and German Values. But it also has a strong nationalist ring to it, so most Germans today will also react negatively if they hear it.

The third stanza deals with freedom and unity for the Germans and is used in the national anthem for that reason.


A common problem with many national anthems.

(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 67
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 4:43:23 PM   
Maallon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The areas denoted in the first stanza are for areas that predominately spoke German or at least had a high percentage of German speakers at that time the song was written. It is actually an Austrian song if I remember. At the time the song was written, the country called Germany did not exist.


true, doesn't change the fact why it is problematic today.

Also "predominately spoke German" is probably too strong of an argument.
The Standardization of the German language haven't really progressed far during that time.
So a Prussian citizen probably couldn't even ask where the next restaurant was when he was in Bavaria.
Heck, if I drive into the countryside today I may understand 1/4 of the stuff the people are saying there, if they choose to not speak Standard German with me. And even if I learned their dialect, as soon as I drive into the next state the language is completely different again. Sometimes driving into the next village can already be enough to encounter a whole new language experience.
So it was a god-sent present to all Germans when the Standardization of the Language finally took place.
But this Standardization only really had started to take shape after the establishment of the German Empire.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 68
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 5:38:20 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The areas denoted in the first stanza are for areas that predominately spoke German or at least had a high percentage of German speakers at that time the song was written. It is actually an Austrian song if I remember. At the time the song was written, the country called Germany did not exist.


true, doesn't change the fact why it is problematic today.

Also "predominately spoke German" is probably too strong of an argument.
The Standardization of the German language haven't really progressed far during that time.
So a Prussian citizen probably couldn't even ask where the next restaurant was when he was in Bavaria.
Heck, if I drive into the countryside today I may understand 1/4 of the stuff the people are saying there, if they choose to not speak Standard German with me. And even if I learned their dialect, as soon as I drive into the next state the language is completely different again. Sometimes driving into the next village can already be enough to encounter a whole new language experience.
So it was a god-sent present to all Germans when the Standardization of the Language finally took place.
But this Standardization only really had started to take shape after the establishment of the German Empire.


I agree. In understand that there are/were five major German dialects in Germany alone. I learned some High German but someone I met knew low German where some of his ancestors came from. The Low German Saxon dialect is where a major part English comes from and one word is the same as English but is spelled with an "i" in High German. The guy who came up with the Law of Diffusion must have had problems with his last name, his nephew whom he raised and has the same last name, he invested the contact lens. I won't post the last name in German because someone might object . . .

The same thing with English language when the BBC came into being even though that dialect was spoken by a small minority. But they were the ones with some education and they reported the news.

The same as well in the US with the major broadcasting networks, using the same form of the English language for all areas so regional dialects are not being used as much. Much of southern Big Canada Land also receives broadcasts from the US so they also can understand the Americans. Some places in the northern US also receive broadcasting from Big Canada Land as well. A US drivers license is recognized in Big Canada Land and vice versa. In fact, a person with a Big Canada Land drivers license does not even have to take the drivers test in at least one state in the US to get that state's drivers license as well.

I am pretty sure that is the same with all languages as well. Someone went to Poland and spoke the Polish that she learned from her grandmother. It was an older form from a certain part of Poland but at least she was understood. She did not know all of the words but she did get the information that she needed to go to some underground salt mines where the miners dug an underground cathedral out of the salt deposit. Meanwhile, her youngest brother would just shout louder in the English vernacular that he spoke while getting angrier - he was a world traveler and worked in other countries. He had lots of good stories to tell.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/23/2021 5:52:41 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 69
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 7:48:18 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hagel zu den Donnervögeln!


BTW, since I don't speak German I'd appreciate a translation.


You may not speak it, but can you understand any of it?

Hail to the Thunderbirds!


I have been wondering for some time what these "Hagel zu xyz" lines were supposed to mean, since they don't make sense in German. "Hagel" in German means indeed "hail" - but in the sense of the meteological phenomenon known as hailstone, not in the sense of "praise the lord" or "hail to the chief" or whoever. You probably want to say "Heil den Donnervögeln / den Fräuleins / whatever" like in "Heil Hitler". Btw, it would be nice if you could stop using Nazi phrases like "Sieg Heil" in your posts - it is very inappropriate and raises questions about your political opinions, your sanity or both. In many European countries "Sieg Heil" and other Nazi catch phrases are considered illegal hate speech and in Germany the use of these phrases is a criminal offence - for good reasons. They shouldn't even be used "just for fun", out of respect for the victims of Nazi barbarism.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/23/2021 7:54:46 PM >

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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 70
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 8:21:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Well, that is the problem with the translation programs then. Especially when one word can have multiple meanings. I haven't used much German for awhile.

Ich mochte ein Bier!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 71
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 9:36:36 PM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hagel zu den Donnervögeln!


BTW, since I don't speak German I'd appreciate a translation.


You may not speak it, but can you understand any of it?

Hail to the Thunderbirds!


I have been wondering for some time what these "Hagel zu xyz" lines were supposed to mean, since they don't make sense in German. "Hagel" in German means indeed "hail" - but in the sense of the meteological phenomenon known as hailstone, not in the sense of "praise the lord" or "hail to the chief" or whoever. You probably want to say "Heil den Donnervögeln / den Fräuleins / whatever" like in "Heil Hitler". Btw, it would be nice if you could stop using Nazi phrases like "Sieg Heil" in your posts - it is very inappropriate and raises questions about your political opinions, your sanity or both. In many European countries "Sieg Heil" and other Nazi catch phrases are considered illegal hate speech and in Germany the use of these phrases is a criminal offence - for good reasons. They shouldn't even be used "just for fun", out of respect for the victims of Nazi barbarism.

+1
I kind of wondered if I should bring that up, too. But I decided against it, as I didn't want to start reading the correct word. I also think all these phrases are very inappropriate, I was actually genuinely shocked when I saw you use one of them for the first time. Where I come from these phrases are strongly linked to Nazi Crimes.
I know that you probably use them jokingly but it would be really nice RangerJoe if you could stop it.


Also "Ich mochte ein Bier!" is the past tense and would translate as "I liked a beer!"
If you wanted to say "I want a beer!" it would be "Ich möchte ein Bier!", but as you probably don't have that letter on your keyboard you are forgiven.


(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 72
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/23/2021 10:04:22 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon


quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Hagel zu den Donnervögeln!


BTW, since I don't speak German I'd appreciate a translation.


You may not speak it, but can you understand any of it?

Hail to the Thunderbirds!


I have been wondering for some time what these "Hagel zu xyz" lines were supposed to mean, since they don't make sense in German. "Hagel" in German means indeed "hail" - but in the sense of the meteological phenomenon known as hailstone, not in the sense of "praise the lord" or "hail to the chief" or whoever. You probably want to say "Heil den Donnervögeln / den Fräuleins / whatever" like in "Heil Hitler". Btw, it would be nice if you could stop using Nazi phrases like "Sieg Heil" in your posts - it is very inappropriate and raises questions about your political opinions, your sanity or both. In many European countries "Sieg Heil" and other Nazi catch phrases are considered illegal hate speech and in Germany the use of these phrases is a criminal offence - for good reasons. They shouldn't even be used "just for fun", out of respect for the victims of Nazi barbarism.

+1
I kind of wondered if I should bring that up, too. But I decided against it, as I didn't want to start reading the correct word. I also think all these phrases are very inappropriate, I was actually genuinely shocked when I saw you use one of them for the first time. Where I come from these phrases are strongly linked to Nazi Crimes.
I know that you probably use them jokingly but it would be really nice RangerJoe if you could stop it.


Also "Ich mochte ein Bier!" is the past tense and would translate as "I liked a beer!"
If you wanted to say "I want a beer!" it would be "Ich möchte ein Bier!", but as you probably don't have that letter on your keyboard you are forgiven.




True, I don't have that letter on the keyboard although I could find it.

I also can't find good German beer around here, nor Czech beer for that matter.

But, unfortunately, I am out of beer right now. But later . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 73
RE: "Butch O'hare and the Japanese 7.7mm vs .50 cal - 3/24/2021 12:34:16 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
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From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		That's an important one to get right, if you want to get your beer!

Many moons ago when I was still in school we did a semester abroad, a program called Semester at Sea, still around today, just with a more modern ship.

Saw a lot of different countries but before getting to any one of them we would figure out the language to order a beer (any numbers for quantity the the word 'please')

So my English is good, My French and Latin so-so, my Gaelic actually OK. But when I was still working and needed to go to China a team member always came with me since I had zero Chinese language abilities. The 'minder' had a hard time communicating in China since there are something like 200 different dialects. Made me feel a bit less stupid. In any case I first went to China in 1989. The next time in maybe 2015. Nothing looked the same. And the high speed train from Beijing to Shanghai is impressive. I think they took all the land they needed to make it a straight track and IIRC it ran at about 400 KM/H

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 74
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