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FTC and Unit Break down

 
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FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 10:30:48 AM   
BrianJH


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/4/2014
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		Is it legal to break down a corp into two divisions which results in FTC limits being exceeded? MWIF is offering me the option to do so.

Brian

< Message edited by BrianJH -- 3/21/2021 10:35:25 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 12:06:32 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Did a quick check on the rules and it seems that it is legal to break it down, but since the excess unit didn't begin the step there it is destroyed. This is, of course, my current humble opinion. So it would be legal to turn one corps into one division if one should want that for some reason.

Maybe a further check should be done if this is a thing?

Edit: With that said I have my doubts that MWIF checks, and destroys one division at this step.

< Message edited by Orm -- 3/21/2021 12:07:53 PM >

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RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 12:09:09 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I think it is allowed:

RAW:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home
country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is
destroyed unless:
• it started the step there;

The corps started the step in the home country and complies at that moment with FTC, therefore if you breakdown a unit, the divisions which were part of that corps simply appear. They don't enter the country, but are already there.


< Message edited by Centuur -- 3/21/2021 12:23:17 PM >

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Peter

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Post #: 3
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 12:25:07 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I think it is allowed:

RAW:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home
country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is
destroyed unless:
• it started the step there;

The corps started the step and complies at that moment with FTC, therefore if you breakdown a unit, the divisions simply appear. They don't enter the country, but are already there.

Yes, that is the rule I am basing my argument on. But I have another take on it.

The Divisions did not start the step in France. They were not on the map at all. Hence the part is destroyed unless it started the step there applies. The offending division is destroyed.

And I agree that the Corps did start there. But it is removed during breakdown so its status doesn't apply.


< Message edited by Orm -- 3/21/2021 12:29:23 PM >

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 4
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 5:30:16 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		I agree with Orm, and that one of the divisions would be destroyed. But I must admit this is a question I have never thought about, and would not be surprised to find out that I am wrong.

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Post #: 5
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 6:26:04 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		An existential dilemma.

Here is part 2 of this one: who picks the division to destroy, if any? Overstacked units are selected by an enemy major power, iirc.

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Post #: 6
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/21/2021 9:29:18 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I think it is allowed:

RAW:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home
country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is
destroyed unless:
• it started the step there;

The corps started the step and complies at that moment with FTC, therefore if you breakdown a unit, the divisions simply appear. They don't enter the country, but are already there.

Yes, that is the rule I am basing my argument on. But I have another take on it.

The Divisions did not start the step in France. They were not on the map at all. Hence the part is destroyed unless it started the step there applies. The offending division is destroyed.

And I agree that the Corps did start there. But it is removed during breakdown so its status doesn't apply.



I don't agree. The divisions were on the map. Both of them were part of the broken down corps and were therefore at the start of the step in the home country.



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Peter

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Post #: 7
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/22/2021 3:27:48 AM   
ssiviour

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 8/8/2014
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I think it is allowed:

RAW:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home
country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is
destroyed unless:
• it started the step there;

The corps started the step and complies at that moment with FTC, therefore if you breakdown a unit, the divisions simply appear. They don't enter the country, but are already there.

Yes, that is the rule I am basing my argument on. But I have another take on it.

The Divisions did not start the step in France. They were not on the map at all. Hence the part is destroyed unless it started the step there applies. The offending division is destroyed.

And I agree that the Corps did start there. But it is removed during breakdown so its status doesn't apply.



I don't agree. The divisions were on the map. Both of them were part of the broken down corps and were therefore at the start of the step in the home country.




I also tend to agree with Centuur, the DIVs were already present in France, On the Map, as part of the Corps.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 8
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/22/2021 5:13:09 AM   
craigbear

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 1/21/2020
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline 		It would be far simpler if divs were counted as 1/2 a unit for the purpose of this rule. But they aren't.

(in reply to ssiviour)
Post #: 9
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/22/2021 8:42:55 AM   
BrianJH


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/4/2014
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

An existential dilemma.

Here is part 2 of this one: who picks the division to destroy, if any? Overstacked units are selected by an enemy major power, iirc.


As for brian brian part 2, query. This one is handled in the Raw7 errata




This is the closest ruling I could find and tends to support Centuur's idea in the sense that the Corp is already there, it's just being reformed differently [into two divs].

Brian.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BrianJH -- 3/22/2021 8:56:41 AM >

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 10
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/24/2021 5:30:57 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		With unlimited breakdown you can also have situations where you would exceed the number of minor country units that may be outside of their home country.

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Paul

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Post #: 11
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/24/2021 5:43:10 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I didn't know that minor country units could also be broken down with unlimited breakdown.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 12
RE: FTC and Unit Break down - 3/24/2021 11:24:04 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I didn't know that minor country units could also be broken down with unlimited breakdown.


No, they can't be broken down when playing with unlimited breakdown.

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Peter

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 13
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