First winter rules: "Rail System. When Axis trains are moving freight by rail,the MP cost for each hex is increased by 10 plus the snow level in Blizzard hexes."
Increased by 10 from what to what and out of how many? There must be another rule about this somewhere.
yes, the usage table in 38.7.7 sets the basic SMP cost/hex moved, add +10+x when this rule in place
1. Theatre boxes require a certain amount of units to get "100%". Is it number of units, or size, or type, or number of troops? Do any 2 divisions count the same? Does the TB need a mix of unit types or can I swap out all the useful stuff and replace them in the TB with crap?
2. Soviet Union Garrison TB. Do supplies for units in this TB burden the rail net? How? Do units in this TB suffer the first winter effect of being not in a city or level 2 fort level?
1 - look at the actual theatre display, you'll see a range of elements cited as being needed. Mostly it keys off CV. In other words change radically at your peril, you might find you still have a lot tied up there and still be shedding VP/AP and seeing events appear earlier
2 - no, it pulls freight using trucks, attrition is set by the combat intensity as in all other theatres
First winter rules: "Rail System. When Axis trains are moving freight by rail,the MP cost for each hex is increased by 10 plus the snow level in Blizzard hexes."
Increased by 10 from what to what and out of how many? There must be another rule about this somewhere.
yes, the usage table in 38.7.7 sets the basic SMP cost/hex moved, add +10+x when this rule in place
Does this rule/table refer to the movement of units (only) during the winter? I thought it was concerning the movement of freight that could be shipped. So,what causes on map units poor supply in '41 blizzard, railing of freight to depots or overland movement from depots to units, or both? I see this in action but I want to understand how to minimise the effects.
First winter rules: "Rail System. When Axis trains are moving freight by rail,the MP cost for each hex is increased by 10 plus the snow level in Blizzard hexes."
Increased by 10 from what to what and out of how many? There must be another rule about this somewhere.
yes, the usage table in 38.7.7 sets the basic SMP cost/hex moved, add +10+x when this rule in place
Does this rule/table refer to the movement of units (only) during the winter? I thought it was concerning the movement of freight that could be shipped. So,what causes on map units poor supply in '41 blizzard, railing of freight to depots or overland movement from depots to units, or both? I see this in action but I want to understand how to minimise the effects.
both - there are a number of explanatory threads on both how the basic logistics system works and the impact over the first winter (for that look at some of the AARs). In truth you can't avoid the first winter problems for the reasons set out in Glorious Ruse's and my AARs
but no, SMP cost does not affect unit tactical move costs (& its that which is used to move freight depot-unit), but your post asks about trains so I answered about trains
a) if the hex is 'pending' you can only build a depot in a town etc hex b) there is (I seem to recall) a per turn limit on depot creation in the countryside - I maybe wrong here and this limit only applies to airbases
sort of, but scattered, 6.3.1 mentions a limit, it should be somewhere else as I recall a discussion around an early patch note where we were testing the rule
Thanks Loki - does this also apply to airbases, is the limit to depot/airbase building in the countryside a shared limit? It seems to be in my experience.
What would be the reason the 1st Polizei Regiment did not draw supplies in the image below?
The other units around it also failed 1 Admin check but still drew supplies. It has enough trucks. There are enough supplies in close range. Its even in range for horse transport. Its in range of its HQ. A Panzer Division 26 hexes away was able to draw supplies from Parnu.
for the inaccessible map parts like the area AGC would be operating in in like scenarios like RtL, how do units interact with if they are cut off with the only way out being the inaccessible area?
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What would be the reason the 1st Polizei Regiment did not draw supplies in the image below?
The other units around it also failed 1 Admin check but still drew supplies. It has enough trucks. There are enough supplies in close range. Its even in range for horse transport. Its in range of its HQ. A Panzer Division 26 hexes away was able to draw supplies from Parnu.
At supply priority 2, maybe only tried to get items in one supply sub-segment (50%-70%) and that failed?
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All understanding comes after the fact. -- Soren Kierkegaard
I can't seem to get any supplies shipped into Kerch port as the Soviets in 1941 - before I dig deeper just wanted to check is there a known issue with this that I've missed?
I can't seem to get any supplies shipped into Kerch port as the Soviets in 1941 - before I dig deeper just wanted to check is there a known issue with this that I've missed?
yes its a bug/feature.
basically Kerch is connected to the Sea of Azov so you need sending ports there but even in that case not sure how it shares shipping with the Black Sea
good thing is that while the depot won't take on any freight, the units will resupply across the ferry hexes so just put a couple of depots on the east side and it works out ok.
I think the linkage to the Sea of Azov will be fixed in the next patch
aye, everything else is linear, so higher value means they have less hit on their logistics or ability to dig etc, its the morale values that key in changes in the AI's routines
first winter rules under 8.6.1 specifies that the 'impact on movement' section applies only to the axis side. Does the 'impact on attrition' also only apply to the axis side, or to both?
first winter rules under 8.6.1 specifies that the 'impact on movement' section applies only to the axis side. Does the 'impact on attrition' also only apply to the axis side, or to both?
given the context I'd say those rules are axis only, but the Soviets will pick up the more generalised winter problems of elements not committing to combat etc (8.5.2)
What's the solution to facing useless blocking counters like Nkvd units as the Germans? Obviously you'd want motorised or infantry to clear but they're still absurdly effective at their job.
You can go around them, and then enjoy being cut off if you don't break down into regiments. (and probably still be cut off because regiments are incredibly vulnerable) You can go through them, and use up very valuable MP and say goodbye to any CPP as it takes the same amount to attack a 400 men NKVD unit as it does a fully fledged rifle division. Or you just try to ignore them, but you can't really because they'll occupy vital hexes.
So do you just use your panzers and eat any losses that inevitably come from that, too?
one answer is that they are not 'useless' hence your post.
The game design logic is that any contact with the enemy causes friction so even a low level enemy unit can force troops out of march mode, demand someone stops to work out what is going on, think about how to respond and so on. Its the same reason why movement in 'pending' hexes is more costly than movement in hexes you owned at the start of the turn and why very low level partisan efforts deny you admin movement.
So this is all part of the tactical puzzle element to any WiTE2 turn but you can only really answer your questions in the context of your wider operational plan and actions.
Crudely you present 3 bad choices, there aren't any good ones so which causes you the least detriment. One thing, I really would never use a pzr division/reg to attack an NKVD regiment, but beyond that your analysis is spot on ... now which is the least worst choice
one good thing, hit hard, these things die, they are quite likely to shatter or be so wrecked as to stay routed/unready for many turns, so it is a finite problem
Is the amount of supply/fuel/ammo present in a unit represented in the load the unit places on the rail net when it is transported?
I'd say no, that should be driven off the elements (as each of them has a transport weight). but its not easy to test - and I could well be very wrong about this.
Currently messing around with T1 so here's a strong infantry division that has moved and one that hasn't:
and then the weaker one after I moved it and it fought a battle
its lost 13 elements (damaged are still in the units for movement purposes) and its transport weight has gone from 3945 tp 3859, so a drop of 0.02%, the lost elements count for 0.01% (but the TOE is down by 2%) and its fuel/ammo etc has dropped by 0.8%.
Realise there is a lot of comparing hippos to apples in that sentence but broadly I'd say the shift in transport weight is keying off elements not carried freight ... I'd equally say this is not exactly a decisive analysis.
What I think does stand up is that any transport cost for the supplies etc is minimal compared to that of the elements (maybe less the case for say a Pzr division)
< Message edited by loki100 -- 7/25/2021 12:41:25 PM >
Thanks for checking Loki. I would say it's a bit of an oversight if the supplies a unit is carrying don't count as freight? Railing fully supplied units into parts of the front which are supply deserts effectively means you are teleporting 100s tones of supplies? I hear you about the elements being the lion's share of freight useage, but the ammo/fuel/supply quantity of a full strength Sov tank corps for example, is going to be huge, no?
there was a silly exploit in WiTE1 where people were moving around HQs with no units as if they were some sort of mobile petrol station.
But since I'm interested, here's another test. 2 Pzr divisions, pretty much of a size (they both have 200-205 tanks), one has moved but not fought, the other is yet to move.
They have an identical SU so that helps with comparison.
so my moved one has a transport cost of 600 less (lets say 1% for simplicity). It has 1500 tons of what would be freight and the unmoved one has 2000 tons.
The unmoved one would cost 15,700 to move and the moved one 15,000, so the difference there is 5% with a drop of 25% in respective freight held.
Now you could work this out in painful detail, each element has a load cost - click on the element and you get:
but even then in-unit trucks would have to be estimated.
my revised guess is held supplies do count but are relatively marginal. 17 Pzr has a move weight of 15673-2000, so lets say 14000 off its elements alone.
I am shifting around Armies to and from the SR to get their TOE up through refit. Bryansk Front just showed up on map, and I want to get Western Front refitted. Is there any way to get Fronts refitted or to the SR?
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