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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:33:15 AM   
HOTEC

 

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Status: offline 		The experimental rules of thumb for the number of units to be moved into and moved out from TB are as below for information:




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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:34:03 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:34:39 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:35:22 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:35:55 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:36:27 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:37:03 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:37:39 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:38:20 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:38:46 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:39:23 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:42:34 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:43:07 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:43:34 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:44:03 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:44:33 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:45:04 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 2:45:35 AM   
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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 4:39:26 PM   
Stamb

 

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

quote:

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.


questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?

< Message edited by Stamb -- 1/26/2022 4:41:25 PM >

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 4:56:25 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did not know that Security Divisions have 2x modifier in SG. Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

quote:

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.


questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?


No idea what is in his AAR but this is completely wrong, really suggest read the section in the Player's Notes for a broad overview of how this actually works

so:

a) something entrains - 'something' can be a unit or freight - lets stick to freight
b) it grabs a 'train' (well a bit of a train) from any viable railyard within 30 hexes that has unused capacity
c) it gets 200 SMP
d) if its freight, it moves as far as it can, it tries for 200 but as move penalties build up it needs more 'train' to get a given distance - in the end the movement penalties overwhelm the ability to move 200 hexes

edit - this is why if you track the amount of freight leaving the NSS it slowly drops as the axis forces push east, until they build in secondary rail links, after that it broadly flatlines. That stock leaving the NSS is the core of the logistics system

e) freight then detrains at the furthest depot that calls for it - the 'train' returns to the railyard (this is where a unit move differs)

If there is freight at Minsk, then it can move in turn one of 2 ways, by truck/horse to a unit or by rail to another depot. If it entrains at Minsk it pulls its trains from available railyards that are 30 hexes away



< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/26/2022 4:58:33 PM >

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 5:14:14 PM   
SchDerGrosse


Posts: 52
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From: Hungary
Status: offline 		Does distance from HQ matter in any way?

I.e., do I benefit from having my HQs closer than 5 hexes (with regards to combat units) or 15,50 etc. hexes (with regards to subordinate HQ units); like increased chance of leadership and other checks?

Or I can just operate on the edge of command range without any consequence.

Thanks,

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 5:41:00 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		check the range (distance) modifiers in 15.5.4, basically you get a 'free' distance for each HQ type (10 for an axis army) and a max range (15 in that case). In the gap between the 2 you get an escalating penalty that reduces the chance to pass a leadership roll, outside the max range there is no contribution (leadership) to the units under command

so crudely, closer is better, but clearly there are other criteria to take into accoun

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 7:02:25 PM   
SchDerGrosse


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the super quick response Loki!
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

check the range (distance) modifiers in 15.5.4, basically you get a 'free' distance for each HQ type (10 for an axis army) and a max range (15 in that case). In the gap between the 2 you get an escalating penalty that reduces the chance to pass a leadership roll, outside the max range there is no contribution (leadership) to the units under command

so crudely, closer is better, but clearly there are other criteria to take into accoun



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Post #: 1343
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 9:07:38 PM   
Stamb

 

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quote:


There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.


This is actually quote from a manual, not HLYA's words

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Post #: 1344
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 9:32:52 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

quote:


There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.


This is actually quote from a manual, not HLYA's words


quite likely but either you or he is misinterpreting what that means - I'm not wading through his AAR but happy to look at a particular post.

your interpretation of what this means - in your questions above isn't right, so there is no way of answering them other than to say somewhere one of you have got the wrong end of the stick on the 30 hex rule.

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 9:35:58 PM   
Stamb

 

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Status: offline 		Post 99 here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5126312&mpage=4&key=

But anyway I have hard time understanding what I have quote from a manual. What does it actually mean?

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Post #: 1346
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/26/2022 9:37:49 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Post 99 here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5126312&mpage=4&key=

But anyway I have hard time understanding what I have quote from a manual. What does it actually mean?


exactly as in my answer above

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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/27/2022 12:20:26 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Did not know that Security Divisions have 2x modifier in SG. Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have question about freight movement, as mentioned by HLYA is his AAR:

25.4.1 RAILYARD CAPACITY

quote:

There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight
location a railyard can be in order to use its railyard
capacity for rail movement.


questions:
1. If there would be only NSS at Berlin and 1 depot in Minsk, without any other intermediate lvl >= 2 railyards in between - it would lead to a case that Minsk would not get any freight as it is > 30 hexes from Berlin and no other depots to draw freight from? What about 200SMP? How does this work together?

2. Also if there are depots with lvl 1 railyards - they get freight only because depots with lvl >= 2 railyards are within a 30 hex range and actually this depots are moving freight to this lvl 1 depots?

3. It says "There is a 30 hex limit to how far from a unit or freight location a railyard can be..." how presence of a unit affects a situation when there is no nearby depots to draw freight from?

4. There are 3 depots with level >=2 railyards. A B C.
A 20 hexes from C.
B is 31 hex from both of them.
Some part of the rails that are going from A to C are within 30 hex range to B. Does B help with a freight movement only on this part of a rails (within 30 hex range) or still provides support out of its range?


Hi Stamb, I'll have a go at answering this. I'm going to try and relate the rules to the 'real world' (at least as far as I understand them)

In real world terms rail capacity is trains. Only Size 2+ railyards contribute capacity. Size 1 railyards can load and unload but don't contribute capacity. So in real world terms, trains will only be 'based' at a Size 2+ railyard (and the bigger the railyard the more trains can be based there). 200SMPs is the maximum distance a unit of freight can travel. In real world terms the distance a train can travel to and from it's 'base' in a week. The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs.

So question 1 - I think as long as Berlin and Minsk are within 400SMPs of each other, Minsk can receive supply direct from Berlin.

Question 2 I'm not sure if I totally understand you? As far as I do understand the question my answer would be that a Size 1 railyard that is within 30 hexes of a Size 2+ RY can both send and receive freight. A Size 1 railyard that is not within 30 hexes can only receive freight (and then send it out by road). To receive freight I think they must be within 200SMPs of either a Size 2+ RY or a Size 1 RY within 30 hexes of the same.

Question 3 Again the question is slightly unclear. I think the mention of units is referring to the transport of units by rail. So potentially for a unit to load on a train it needs to be within 30 hexes of a size 2 railyard? I think in reality this situation is unlikely to come up. The practical implication is that the more 2+ railyard there are within 30 hexes, the lower the proportion of the capacity the unit move will use (and the higher the proportion that will remain to send freight).

Question 4 To answer this I'll expand on your example slightly to say what would happen if there was unlimited stored freight in only one of those depots. Depot A and C could use trains from both depots to send that freight. Depot B could only use its own trains. So Depots A and C could send twice as much of the freight as Depot B is able to.


Hope this makes a bit more sense? If my understanding is incorrect I'm happy to be corrected :p !

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Post #: 1348
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/27/2022 12:37:04 PM   
Stamb

 

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Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		Thanks for the answers. It is probably better not to do a deep dive into logistics for the sake of own mental health :D

If you are correct about this:
"The 30 hex rule means that a Size 2+ railyard can 'lend' its trains to another railyard of any size within 30 hexes, which can then be used to transport freight up to 200SMPs."

Then is it possible that depot A lend trains to depot B as they are within 30 hexes. Then depot B lend trains that it got from A and its own to a C and so on?

So any railyard on the map can contribute to a global freight network if there are no gaps of > 30 hexes between lvl 2 depots?

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Post #: 1349
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 1/27/2022 12:54:43 PM   
Jango32

 

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Status: offline 		Does a depot have to exist on the hex with the size 2+ railyard in order for its trains to be 'lent' to another railyard?

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