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RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine

 
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RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 7:02:29 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And other than the Chokai didn't a few other IJN CAs suffer from their own torps? Big warheads and oxygen propulsion made them a bit volatile. Maybe Mikuma at Midway? I'm sure someone knows the 'events' off the top of their head.

The classic picture of Mikuma at Midway shows some torpedoes hanging from the torpedo tubes - a failed jettison attempt. But that means that particular bank of torps did not explode. Since Mikuma had four torpedo banks some of the others could have exploded, but my understanding is that the engine rooms were hit by bombs and the ship was scuttled as the Allied carriers were expected to strike the next day as well. Better to save the crew and lose the ship than lose both trying to save the ship.

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Post #: 31
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 8:47:38 PM   
fcooke

 

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Status: offline 		And the Americans seemed to have started the kamikaze trend - was it Henderson who crashed his damaged plane into the rear of Mikuma?

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Post #: 32
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 9:23:27 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And the Americans seemed to have started the kamikaze trend - was it Henderson who crashed his damaged plane into the rear of Mikuma?

Not sure about that. Henderson was a Marine pilot who died at Midway. I am not sure if the USN had any Marine units on their carriers or if Midway's Marine air units could have reached Mikuma.

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Post #: 33
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 9:31:36 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Good old Budvar. Though if you go to a Prague beer hall you get the really good stuff.


Well, at the time, it would have been difficult for me to go to Prague.

Although my stepbrother did go all over Europe and even to the Middle East in the 1960s.

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Post #: 34
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 9:52:14 PM   
Buckrock

 

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Status: offline 		It was apparently the torpedoes in Mikuma's interior torpedo storage room rather than those in her tubes that exploded so devastatingly after being roasted by uncontrolled fires for over 45 minutes. Mogami and the CL Abukuma both would suffer similar incidents with uncontrolled fires and their torpedoes during the closing stages of the Battle of Surigao Strait in '44.

And the Mikuma was apparently not kamikazied by any US aircraft at Midway. That story came from a mis-remembered Japanese claim and some creative interpretation of a pile of wreckage on the Mikuma from the same famous photo mentioned earlier. Shattered Sword makes mention of it in the footnotes.

As for the Chokai, her wreck was discovered and investigated recently. The story of her torpedoes detonating on-board during the Battle off Samar appears to have been incorrect. You can find a discussion on it at the Nihon Kaigun site that includes comments from the person who came up with the original theory, Anthony Tully.
https://propnturret.com/tully/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4089&start=15

This was from one of his posts in the discussion....
"What the wreck already tells us is that bomb damage is certainly present, but so also is shell fire holes it appears, and evidence of some fire -- but none of the torpedo tube mounts proper exploded. In fact, they don't look to have been loaded and fired, or had fired already, and not yet reloaded. But all are empty. So whatever made CHOKAI un-navigable -- it was not a MIKUMA (or SUZUYA) level of torpedo mount explosions -- despite that having seemed the most likely explanation to date. (Just shows how crucial examining a wreck is if you get that luxury!)".

< Message edited by Buckrock -- 4/1/2021 10:27:08 PM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 11:18:55 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And other than the Chokai didn't a few other IJN CAs suffer from their own torps? Big warheads and oxygen propulsion made them a bit volatile. Maybe Mikuma at Midway? I'm sure someone knows the 'events' off the top of their head.


Aoba
Furutaka
Mogami
Mikuma
Suzuya

Abukuma

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Post #: 36
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/1/2021 11:23:15 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		Agreed on Chokai. Finding the wreck was the Cherry on top. There had previously been reasonable doubt based on several source materials including Lacroix. Hornfischer "suggested" it was due to torps but his opinion turned out to be based on the eyewitness account you cited from the pursued TG.

speaking of found wrecks, still waiting for a detailed update on the Midway wrecks found recently.

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Post #: 37
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/5/2021 4:33:44 AM   
spence

 

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Status: offline 		According to "Shattered Sword" the difference between the fates of Mikuma and Mogami at Midway was the decision by the DCA (damage control assistant) on Mogami to jettison his torpedoes even though they were (expensive and) the "BB killers" which by doctrine were the raison d'etre of heavy cruisers. I guess he either got his wrist slapped hard for that decision or he got transferred before the Battle of Surigao Strait.

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Post #: 38
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/5/2021 7:01:08 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		SS did indeed suggest that. However I've not seen this view substantiated. Certainly there were numerous other situations where torpedoes were jettisoned if the ship was threatened.

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Post #: 39
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/5/2021 1:46:51 PM   
Sardaukar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

SS did indeed suggest that. However I've not seen this view substantiated. Certainly there were numerous other situations where torpedoes were jettisoned if the ship was threatened.


Well, in Shattered Sword, that was eyewitness account by the said damage control officer, so that might be pretty well substantiated.

They also had to shut the hatches, which did lead to death of lot of their shipmates, to control the fires.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 4/5/2021 1:47:39 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: Cherry Blossom Season At Yasukuni Shrine - 4/5/2021 8:44:48 PM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		indeed, except thats not what I was talking about. The Mogami situation colorfully described in the SS book is often cited as an outlier. It isn't.



< Message edited by Nikademus -- 4/5/2021 8:45:05 PM >

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