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RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)

 
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RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/3/2021 10:24:52 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I"m totally lurking on all of these AARs and I've never played so take it FWIW. But, first I really appreciate HLYA's thorough discussions of what is happening in his various games and enjoy reading each of the AARs. The only things I've seen thus far that look iffy to me is the instant motorization of infantry units and the busting of city forts asap. On the other hand, it's 1941 and life is hard for the USSR. :)

(in reply to dudefan)
Post #: 361
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/3/2021 10:28:29 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dudefan

So we need hyla vs tyronec to figure out if balance is right?


May happen soon enough for a game between the two of us. I am sure it would be one hell of a game.

As for figuring out balance I don't know since any balancing will be for the majority of purchasers of this game which is Human vs AI. Thus, there is your dilemma in and of itself. Changes to the game will be based on that criteria I am afraid, and it makes sense, since 80% of their sales is Human vs AI. We head-2-head players are in the minority.

But that isn't to say we can't take our experience and tailor House rules to our Head-2-Head games. I already am a firm believer Motorization in 41 is out the window. I may agree to a division for Germany in 41 but for everyone else, "NO WAY" It is broken. I also know that super depot should not be used in 41 at all by either side. I have a few more but still thinking them through.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 5/3/2021 10:33:58 PM >

(in reply to dudefan)
Post #: 362
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/3/2021 10:32:13 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I"m totally lurking on all of these AARs and I've never played so take it FWIW. But, first I really appreciate HLYA's thorough discussions of what is happening in his various games and enjoy reading each of the AARs. The only things I've seen thus far that look iffy to me is the instant motorization of infantry units and the busting of city forts asap. On the other hand, it's 1941 and life is hard for the USSR. :)


Thank you John B.

Ya, if you are going to do a City-Fort you better have had your infantry in that fort there for awhile, have good CPP, and have a GREAT leader. Then pray for an excellent combat roll. Otherwise the Soviets are not going to do well if the Germans are prepared.


(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 363
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/3/2021 11:08:06 PM   
Gunnulf


Posts: 686
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		Thats the problem though, if the Axis can drive 700miles from the border to lake ladoga in 4 turns, and romp a dozen + mechanised divisions through the swamps and forests at full speed, or at best along 2 decent roads then you'll never be able to get enough to prevent Leningrad being cut off as in fact you have 3 soviet turns to prevent it and the first is arguably pretty much a write-off to get anything organised.

Regarding blocking the road network in order to slow the advance Pskov was still holding at end of turn 3 so that road wasn't in play and looking at the screenshot from the end of turn 3 there is a single road in play to support the logistics of at least 9 divisions 170 miles from the last friendly hex, with plenty of regiments 50 miles branched off from that single road, but nothing is slowing them down. That would make the NVA blush with their efforts on the Ho Chi Minh trail! Maybe its partly the player has the hindsight that none of these forests and swamps contain ambushes and surprises that can't be brushed aside but my main point is either which way the tempo of advance should be unsustainable both due to congestion, and terrain. At some point sheer numbers becomes a liability in this respect.

Bit late to the party to implement a whole new mechanism but seems to me friendly units should almost create a self inflicted 'interdiction' as they pass through a hex which might work as some limiting factor to the rampage, but either which way I really feel something needs to be looked at to make the tempo of advance somewhat more realistic as currently it looks way way out of whack to me. The Axis should of course be relentless at the start, but not driving mario carts. I'm sure its possible to get it vaguely right while still giving the Axis player plenty of options to try different strategies.

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to dudefan)
Post #: 364
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/4/2021 12:01:09 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		There are ways that the Soviets can slow/stop the Axis in 41. They are not the same ways that the Soviets can do it in WitE1 however. Combat Delay actually works well in slowing down follow up units by costing additional MPs based on enemy combat.

I think the one thing I have noticed the most about the Soviets in many of these AARs by experienced WitE1 players is their supply net. The Soviets start with a worst supply network than the Axis do. Even though they are falling back on their supply net, the Soviets do not have nearly as many depots as they need. Also many do not seem to be changing the Supply Priority of their rear depots - many of which start the game at level 1 which is not enough to supply anything of note. Read M60s 'Pearls of Soviet Wisdom' to see just how much this makes a difference. Units coming onto the map from the reserves have no trucks or supplies assigned to them as of yet. They will require one or two turns on map in order to get up to speed. If you have to depend on units from the Reserve coming onto the map and immediately into the front line you are losing. Those units will not stop anything regardless of their TOE% or morale. They have no supplies in order to defend themselves and they will be overrun quickly.

City forts are currently doomed if they are isolated. This is being looked at and discussed but even if there are changes the first rule of city forts is keep them supplied. Odessa is doomed the moment it is subject to naval interdiction. The Soviets have to fight over the interdiction and try their best to keep the Axis from establishing naval patrol dominance in the area. Also make sure the Soviet leader in the city fort is a good one as it is vital that every leadership check has a good chance for success. Building a city fort in Smolensk is a waste of AP and manpower unless you can maintain the supply line to it.

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 365
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/7/2021 8:39:16 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		This game is now at an end. I want to thank Gunnulf for the time we spent together in the game and hope we meet again in the near future.

Thank you much!

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 366
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/8/2021 8:53:38 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I"m totally lurking on all of these AARs and I've never played so take it FWIW. But, first I really appreciate HLYA's thorough discussions of what is happening in his various games and enjoy reading each of the AARs. The only things I've seen thus far that look iffy to me is the instant motorization of infantry units and the busting of city forts asap. On the other hand, it's 1941 and life is hard for the USSR. :)


+1. I could not say it better. I appreciate very much what HLYA is doing to help people understand and the way he does it.

Thanks to HLYA for his efforts !

Hartwig

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 367
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/11/2021 1:50:00 PM   
Francophile

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Any chance you could post the final game turn's file? Still interested in seeing how this northern strategy plays out.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 368
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/11/2021 4:04:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: modrow


quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I"m totally lurking on all of these AARs and I've never played so take it FWIW. But, first I really appreciate HLYA's thorough discussions of what is happening in his various games and enjoy reading each of the AARs. The only things I've seen thus far that look iffy to me is the instant motorization of infantry units and the busting of city forts asap. On the other hand, it's 1941 and life is hard for the USSR. :)


+1. I could not say it better. I appreciate very much what HLYA is doing to help people understand and the way he does it.

Thanks to HLYA for his efforts !

Hartwig


You are welcome. I am by far not the best player out here but gives a bit into how I think about things. I do like mixing things up ;-)

I will be having my Soviet opening in my match with Qball in the Stalingrad to Berlin Campaign coming up either today or tomorrow. That game should be interesting.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 369
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/11/2021 4:07:12 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Francophile

Any chance you could post the final game turn's file? Still interested in seeing how this northern strategy plays out.


This was a Server game. No way for a file. At least that I know of.

(in reply to Francophile)
Post #: 370
RE: The Screams of the deceased Soldiers, HLYA(G) vs Gu... - 5/11/2021 5:33:08 PM   
Francophile

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		OK, thanks for considering. I'm playing around with your strategy against the AI now. Also the "bypass Pskov" strategy with just the 4th PzA up north.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 371
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