Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder

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Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder

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Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/7/2021 2:29:08 PM

Jagger2002

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In the Rolling Thunder scenario, the Russians have infantry At-14 ATGMs available. The teams can't be spotted as far as I can see before they fire. The AT-14 operates with a laser designator. I suspect they also have thermal capability. So will artillery smoke block laser designators and prevent the AT-14 from firing?

I know the vehicle smoke will block thermal but will it block laser designators as well? I am guessing it blocks both?

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/7/2021 2:36:59 PM

Jagger2002

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Just did a search and it appears lasers need clear air to operate properly. Smoke is a problem for lasers. Hopefully the game models this drawback to laser designators. Now I wonder if the AT-14s operate properly relying on thermals alone. I would assume they would.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/8/2021 10:33:47 AM

guanotwozero

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It depends on the type of smoke - some will block IR transmission, others won't. Smoke should block all lasers as it's the visible range, as well inhibit use of visible-range SACLOS systems. It's more complex in that each type of smoke will have unique effectiveness at blocking any one wavelength, so a thermal system may have better results penetrating one type of IR-blocking smoke than another.

In general, vehicle-mounted smoke dispensers will block IR whereas artillery/mortar smoke will not.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/8/2021 1:19:47 PM

Jagger2002

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In this particular scenario, I am concerned about the Russian At-14 Kornet ATGMs. The AT-14 is laser beam riding SACLOS system instead of wire guidance. So any type of smoke (artillery, vehicle or fire smoke in general) should block the AT-14 laser guidance. I am guessing the AT-14 also has thermal sights which would allow identification of targets for laser guidance at night. However night or day, any type of smoke should be effective against AT-14s as smoke disables the guidance system. At least, that is what I think should happen. So I am putting up a smoke screen before I make an assault across open ground if the AT-14 is a threat. Of course, a smoke screen probably won't help against any thermal sighted, wire guided missile systems which might be lurking out there but at least, I shouldn't have to worry about the At-14.

< Message edited by Jagger2002 -- 4/8/2021 1:30:47 PM >

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/12/2021 10:17:08 AM

guanotwozero

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I agree that's what should happen - all types of visual-spectrum guidance should be blocked by any type of smoke, irrespective of imaging technology.

In terms of imaging it's worth looking at the manual to see if the (mainly Ru/Ukr tech) units can dispense black or white smoke, the latter blocking IR.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/12/2021 2:04:16 PM

Jagger2002

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Just a quick look shows a number of more modern Russian vehicles with Tucha smoke systems putting out white smoke which blocks thermals. Also some vehicles have radar guidance which allows targeting and guidance through any obscurants and weather. The Khrizantema has radar guidance and the At-15 Springer ATGM. Unfortunately it seems the manual doesn't have the performance details on the AT-15. I am going to guess the Khrizantema has to be tricky to deal with. I think that vehicle is in the Rolling Thunder scenario.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/12/2021 2:23:21 PM

Jagger2002

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BTW, I still haven't won the Rolling Thunder scenario but I think I have finally figured out the key to success. Preparing the battlefield prior to launching an attack. Occupation and security for key terrain, observation and degradation of enemy forces, proper coordinated attack from objective to objective. As objectives are secured, repeat process for next objective. This scenario is basically an attack on a very strong defensive position. This is not a meeting engagement. So preparation and coordination is vital. I actually almost won my last attempt except for one crucial mistake. I didn't properly secure one flank of the attack and a T-90 managed to get into a secure position allowing fire into the flank and rear of my attack route. And I couldn't get at the T-90. A proper defense on that flank would never have allowed that T-90 to get into that position.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/17/2021 7:19:07 PM

KungPao

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002

So will artillery smoke block laser designators and prevent the AT-14 from firing?

No. I remember someone on BFC forum did a test. Non-IR blocking smoke will not stop AT-14 from firing (and hit the target).

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/18/2021 4:50:50 AM

Jagger2002

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I wonder if military lasers have managed to find away around the obscurants problem. I just did an assault across the firing arc of some AT-14s. I had the area covered with a mix of regular smoke and vehicle smoke. I noticed the AT-14s were only getting laser designations when vehicles were not covered by smoke. However I wasn't sure which was regular smoke and which was artillery smoke. I have a save and can probably do my own test.

The 2 At-14s got off a number of shots but only one actual hit. They managed to immobilize one M-1. I am guessing it is hard to hit vehicles which are only in the open for short bursts.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/19/2021 12:36:03 PM

KungPao

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in CMBS, all the arty smoke and Smoke grenades carried by Infantry are Non-IR blocking. White smoke pop by AFV are IR blocking smoke, black smoke generated from BMP's are non-IR blocking.

It is very inconvenience that non-IR blocking and IR blocking smoke share the same white color.

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RE: Lasers and smoke and Rolling Thunder - 4/20/2021 4:54:41 AM

Jagger2002

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The smoke is still useful against the non-IR units and especially infantry fire and RPGs.

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