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Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 2:05:14 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		39 Scenario with House Rule: no more than 6 UK ground units in France before 1941.

No Allied all in cheese for me. I want a straight up game, and this is the stock 39 scenario, no Beta.



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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 2:38:33 PM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline 		You may also want to apply a somewhat similar house rule for the Soviets. Not allowing them to accumulate more than 1000 production points.

I faced an opponent, who oddly for the first year and half of the war didn't seem to be building any Soviet units. What little he had was deployed far from the frontier. When I finally launched Barbarossa in May '41, I enter Russia virtually unopposed. Then as I approached Smolensk and the Dniepr Bend in late July a solid wall of two lines of armies, not corps, materialized in front of me. A shocking development. A creative exploit but makes the All in France cheese look trivial by comparison.

My opponent has agreed to a second game where the Soviets are limited to 1000 points limit and no more than 6 corps disbanded per turn.

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Post #: 2
RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 2:40:03 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The Soviets are fine. No house rules necessary here. The real issue is the Western Front in 1940. Indeed, I think the Soviets are a bit underpowered in the latest patch.

Pretty much what you describe here is merely standard Soviet play: stockpile production so you can roll out a wave of armies immediately after Barbarossa begins.

You want to talk cheese in the East? The real cheese in the East is the early Barbarossa. April Barbarossas are super hard to counter. I am surprised to see fewer of these going on lately. (Like, don't screw around in Greece and stuff, guys, go early and go hard into Russia.)

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 4/20/2021 2:44:02 PM >

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 3:39:37 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Also, next time you see an opponent doing this...invade early and invade often. That trick of building nothing at all won't work against a German rush. You do have to build something in order to counter the early Barbarossa. You can stockpile stuff up to a point, but past that you invite disaster. Also, if you drop it all at once on builds, it will really deplete your manpower. 10 armies built at once (or 2k production more or less) will take you from 100% to 75% manpower, and with the Germans pressing you hard you may end up below 50% sometime in 1942.

Note: it takes 4 turns minimum for new builds to arrive. (The calendar can sometimes result in this taking a turn longer.)

Panzers in Romania can get past the Dnepr in less time than that if unopposed.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 4/20/2021 3:51:30 PM >

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 4:19:47 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Interesting...I have never stockpiled as the Russians...always worry that the Germans will just overwelm...
But I do not play the Allies enough.

I like your test though...a great start. I will be posted a more restrictive to test a few other things.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 6:16:18 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I generally stockpile around 1500 production points, enough to buy up 7 armies off the bat, but without completely wrecking Soviet manpower from overdrawing it at once. This leaves the sovs with something like 80% manpower after rushing the new construction.

This is less than you'd think; about 6 turns worth of 1941 prewar production. So I don't start stockpiling in earnest until the end of 1940. I'm definitely buying stuff from Sep 39 until Dec 1940, though.

I've seen too many early Barbarossas to take my chances with stockpiling more than this.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 6:31:49 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Hmmm...I may have to try that. But now that armies automatically convert...should you wait?

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/20/2021 6:37:02 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The conversion process is sketchy and depends to a large extent on losses taken. I don't consider it reliable. Indeed, in many games you'll end 1941 with a few rifle corps still on the map. If it was up to me I'd simply convert them all to half armies automatically 6 turns after Barbarossa begins. Historically the Soviets abolished the rifle corps organization in summer of 1941 and these were almost all gone by the end of August.

I'm not very happy with how this conversion rule plays out.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/23/2021 6:02:23 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Addendum: no French naval builds before 1941.

It seems some very clever people are using France to gift the UK with a ton of escorts instead of, you know, trying to stop the freaking panzers.

All of this cleverness is killing the game. I am not impressed with it. Stop it, please. You know this is cheese. No sensible player would do it. But we have many nonsensical ones.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/23/2021 6:17:30 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The English have a saying: too clever by half. I am coming to appreciate this saying.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/23/2021 6:58:58 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		FlaviusX if you want a game...I am up for one.


Do you have a list of the "house" rules you like to follow?

I know there are a few that make a lot of sense but some people do weird stuff, *cough* ComradajaKorp *cough*
French naval invasions, sea invasions in the Caspian sea, I am even becoming less of a fan of the Axis not attacking any minor that has MS that they give to the UK. Not sure how to fix that though.

I would NEVER have thought build escorts as the French...since I always lose the BOA not matter which side I play this might have helped...


I can play either side...not sure you have a preference.

And no cheese...I need it for my pizza tomorrow night.

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Post #: 11
RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/24/2021 3:00:58 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Just the two conditions I listed, and I prefer playing the allies. But I don't do stupid cheese like invading the Caspian sea or whatever. The only time I've ever "invaded" with the French was when Copenhagen was left open to slide a French corps in there...so be warned, and take Denmark out in 1 turn or at least patrol the waters heavily. (I consider this intervention legitimate.) I saw that thing with France in the Netherlands and I won't do it, you needn't worry. An obvious map exploit. C'mon, Comrade, seriously?

Anyways, if you are game then set it up and send me a PM with your PW.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/26/2021 8:26:17 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Note: it takes 4 turns minimum for new builds to arrive. (The calendar can sometimes result in this taking a turn longer.)



Hmmmm. Build times are measured in days, as are turns. A unit taking 60 days to build is always going to take 5 turns. 4 x 14 = 56 so a unit that needs 60 days in practice always takes 70 days to build.

There may therefore be a good case for build times to be expressed in turns to avoid confusion, but I expect Alvaro's time can be better spent elsewhere.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/26/2021 8:29:33 AM >

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 4/26/2021 11:09:49 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		You're right about this. I was oversimplifying things.

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 5/2/2021 7:35:48 PM   
eskuche

 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline 		Ready to take you on after bootcamp period for Warplan pacific ;)

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RE: Looking for Axis Opponent - 5/2/2021 10:22:15 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Oops. I forgot to close this topic. Already found an opponent and am pretty far into a game, but thanks for the response.

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