American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania)

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American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 4:55:43 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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Yesterday, I went for a walk around Hobart's wharf area and saw a new sign indicating something of historical interest. It marked where there was a United States Consulate in the early Nineteenth Century. Hobart was the second European settlement in Australia, in 1803. The French were sniffing around down here and the British decided a permanent presence would be useful, especially as Hobart has one of the best deepwater anchorages in the Southern Hemisphere. Convicts could do the heavy lifting.

By about 1830 Hobart Town was the same size as the then Sydney, as the land was better for farming, there were timbers suitable for boat building (Huon Pine, which they nearly wiped out, is about a good a boatbuilding timber as there is) and there were endless whales. Apparently it was a very wild place as blokes would return from whaling voyages with as much three year's big wages. Unsurprisingly, this attracted plenty of "mollies" or prostitutes (which incidentally is where the term "moll" for a gangster's girlfriend comes from). Many of these whalers were American; hence the consulate. At the time there were 150 pubs and 150 brothels, so business was obviously good. This is a somewhat recent photo of the docks area. The buildings you can see are warehouses and chandlers built around 1835. The U.S. consulate was down the alley to the left.

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< Message edited by Neilster -- 4/26/2021 8:15:47 AM >

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 5:11:47 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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The historical sign describes how Americans participated in the uprising in Upper Canada in 1837 and the ones that weren't hanged entered the British penal system. Some of them ended up as convicts in Van Diemen's Land, which is now Tasmania, doing hard labour like road building in chain gangs. Badly behaved convicts were often sent to Port Arthur, on an isolated peninsula East of Hobart. It must have seemed to them like they'd never see their home again. After several years, however, they were pardoned and most found their way back to the U.S.

Here is one account...

https://www.historynet.com/linus-miller-a-yank-in-van-demons-land.htm

Here's the Consulate sign. You can just make out "Consulate of the United States"

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< Message edited by Neilster -- 4/26/2021 5:14:49 AM >

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 5:34:19 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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The incongruous thing about Port Arthur, is that it's in a beautiful place.

From wiki...

"The peninsula on which Port Arthur is located is a naturally secure site by being surrounded by water (rumoured by the administration to be shark-infested [Me...it is]). The 30-m-wide isthmus of Eaglehawk Neck that was the only connection to the mainland was fenced and guarded by soldiers, man traps, and half-starved dogs."

It later became a kind of model prison but it was still a very harsh place. Flogging was replaced by psychological punishments, like solitary confinement in complete darkness and enforced silence with hooded convicts. Food deprivation was also used. Some convicts went insane and others murdered (often with the permission of the victim) as the punishment was death and hence escape from the misery.

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< Message edited by Neilster -- 4/26/2021 6:44:34 AM >

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 9:25:47 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

The incongruous thing about Port Arthur, is that it's in a beautiful place.

From wiki...

"The peninsula on which Port Arthur is located is a naturally secure site by being surrounded by water (rumoured by the administration to be shark-infested [Me...it is]). The 30-m-wide isthmus of Eaglehawk Neck that was the only connection to the mainland was fenced and guarded by soldiers, man traps, and half-starved dogs."

It later became a kind of model prison but it was still a very harsh place. Flogging was replaced by psychological punishments, like solitary confinement in complete darkness and enforced silence with hooded convicts. Food deprivation was also used. Some convicts went insane and others murdered (often with the permission of the victim) as the punishment was death and hence escape from the misery.

I didn't know that you were from Tasmania!

My daughter's boyfriend is graduating in English History and Literature and he had initially chosen to do his thesis on the "Tasmanian Gothic" artistic movement. He was planning to visit Tasmania last October to do research when Covid killed his plans. Since this situation will not end soon, he is now looking for a new thesis.

Pity, because Tasmanian Gothic was a cool topic. I was spurred to do some personal research (Wikipedia - cough) and now I hope to catch "The Gloaming" on some streaming services.

The art is very disturbing, BTW.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 10:18:54 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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Well, it was under my avatar all along :)

Tasmanian Gothic is an interesting movement, inspired by the rugged landscape, penal and colonial history and the customs of the Tasmanian Aborigines. There are a few gruesome stories of escaping convicts eating each other, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pearce

Another interesting one is the Cyprus Mutiny, where convicts sailed to China via Japan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_mutiny

The indigenous Tasmanians were here for over forty thousand years. Rising sea levels after the last ice age made Tasmania an island about eight thousand years ago and eventually they forgot about mainland Australia. They thought Tasmania was the whole world, although they did have an origin story that they came from a long way away, to the North.

People, even Australians, think Tassie (as Australians call it) is quite a small island and sometimes they drive off the ship from Melbourne and ask how long it takes to drive around it, thinking they'll be able to knock it off before lunchtime. Try about 15 hours

The Western half is mostly wilderness, with mountains and temperate rainforest. The Eastern half, where most of the half million population live, is much drier. I went on a West Coast Pieman River cruise the other day. Very scenic.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 1:05:09 PM

MrRoadrunner

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Thanks Neilster.
It makes me think of where I need to take a trip when I retire.
A most interesting and beautiful place. I'll put it on my list.

RR

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 1:32:17 PM

gekkoguy35

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Wow, I honestly had no idea that Tasmania was so large, or quite so beautiful. I just assumed it was a desert or otherwise very rugged and inhospitable for some reason.

Thanks for the info!

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 2:10:14 PM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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1. The Derwent River, which flows through Hobart
2. A snowy stream at Cradle Mountain
3. Shipstern Bluff, which is a big wave surfing location and a very heavy wave

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 2:14:12 PM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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1. Hobart from Mount Wellington (Aboriginal name...kunanyi)
2. The Don River, on our family farm
3. A wombat :)

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 3:28:45 PM

RFalvo69

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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Well, it was under my avatar all along :)

Like we used to say in the Navy, "It is always the little things..."

Even Tom Clancy used the same sentence in IIRC "Red Storm Rising".

Thanks for the links and the images. I now hope to visit Tasmania one day. Damned Covid...

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 10

RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 3:36:18 PM

Greybriar

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Thank you for all the photos and information, Neilster.

I visited Sydney many years ago and have always wanted to return to Australia as well as pay a visit to New Zealand. Perhaps someday I will.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 3:47:57 PM

Mobeer

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Hobart, Tasmania will always be known to me by the radio jingle played frequently by Chris Tarrant on Capital FM's breakfast show - in London.

Ignore the video:
https://youtu.be/FBAhG0FNqO0

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 5:11:34 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Well, it was under my avatar all along :)

Like we used to say in the Navy, "It is always the little things..." Even Tom Clancy used the same sentence in IIRC "Red Storm Rising".

Thanks for the links and the images. I now hope to visit Tasmania one day. Damned Covid...

Take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves. Someone told me about a man who thought that the "check engine" light being on that meant that you had to add a quart (not quite a litre) of motor oil. The engine did not last 14,000 miles or 22,700 kilometers.

Also from Scouting, observe and report.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/26/2021 10:33:32 PM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

Hobart, Tasmania will always be known to me by the radio jingle played frequently by Chris Tarrant on Capital FM's breakfast show - in London.

Ignore the video:
https://youtu.be/FBAhG0FNqO0

I hadn't heard that before. It's funny. My suburb of Sandy Bay gets a mention. It's in the photo above with all the yachts.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/27/2021 9:09:10 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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And, right on cue, Europa Universalis IV releases the "Leviathan" expansion which adds (along with a ton of other things) the Australian aborigines tribes along with their "Dreamtime" religion.

I wonder if I could start my new game with Palawa (the Tasmanian aborigines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians) and do something of importance

Edit: And of course the new DLC is the usual buggy disaster.

I'll not ask for a refund (I was tempted) but I always wonder how a company can release a product so buggy that the average player (me) can just fire it up and find a serious bug within 10 minutes.

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 4/27/2021 10:00:53 AM >

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 15

RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/27/2021 10:13:02 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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If you want to know what the first modern humans were like, Australian Aborigines are about the closest thing to them. It now looks like they arrived here quite quickly after humans left Africa, probably hugging the coasts around India and SE Asia. Like the first people to populate the Americas many thousands of years later, they found a huge land full of new animals who had never experienced hominins before.

They probably played a major role in the extinction of the Australian megafauna, as those animals had survived several climate cycles before, but eventually they worked out how to manage the land sustainably. Mostly Australia's soils were unsuitable for farming, so they remained hunter-gatherers. There were a few places with considerable resources though, and there they built permanent dwellings, and practised aquaculture, for example.

Their Dreamtime stories made perfect sense to their way of life. Some of them are so old they even refer to megafauna that haven't existed for tens of thousands of years. For example, they remember the giant short-faced Kangaroo, and say they were aggressive and attacked people. Modern paleontologists then found fossils of them, who went extinct 15,000 years ago and which fed on leaves rather than grass, and walked, not hopped. There is rock art that probably depicts them, as well as Tasmanian Tigers and the marsupial lion.

They thought the stars were the campfires of their ancestors, who now lived in the sky. They had complicated songlines, which were vital in many ways, especially finding water in the arid parts of Australia. There was a complicated trading network that encompassed all of mainland Australia. Beginning about 400 years ago they started having sporadic contact with European explorers and they traded with Indonesian vessels, but in 1788 the British started Sydney and their world fell apart. The same thing happened in Tasmania, where disease and conflict wiped the full-blooded aborigines out by 1876, despite a kind-of effort to save them at the last minute. I have several friends who are part aboriginal though, and many places now have dual or wholly aboriginal names.

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RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/27/2021 10:21:41 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

If you want to know what the first modern humans were like, Australian Aborigines are about the closest thing to them. It now looks like they arrived here quite quickly after humans left Africa, probably hugging the coasts around India and SE Asia. Like the first people to populate the Americas many thousands of years later, they found a huge land full of new animals who had never experienced hominins before.

They probably played a major role in the extinction of the Australian megafauna, as those animals had survived several climate cycles before, but eventually they worked out how to manage the land sustainably. Mostly Australia's soils were unsuitable for farming, so they remained hunter-gatherers. There were a few places with considerable resources though, and there they built permanent dwellings, and practised aquaculture, for example.

Their Dreamtime stories made perfect sense to their way of life. Some of them are so old they even refer to megafauna that haven't existed for tens of thousands of years. For example, they remember the giant short-faced Kangaroo, and say they were aggressive and attacked people. Modern paleontologists then found fossils of them, who went extinct 15,000 years ago and which fed on leaves rather than grass, and walked, not hopped. There is rock art that probably depicts them, as well as Tasmanian Tigers and the marsupial lion.

They thought the stars were the campfires of their ancestors, who now lived in the sky. They had complicated songlines, which were vital in many ways, especially finding water in the arid parts of Australia. There was a complicated trading network that encompassed all of mainland Australia. Beginning about 400 years ago they started having sporadic contact with European explorers and they traded with Indonesian vessels, but in 1788 the British started Sydney and their world fell apart. The same thing happened in Tasmania, where disease and conflict wiped the full-blooded aborigines out by 1876, despite a kind-of effort to save them at the last minute. I have several friends who are part aboriginal though, and many places now have dual or wholly aboriginal names.

Those are wonderful infos! Thanks Neilster!

On my Kindle for iPad I have a free book titled "Under the Southern Cross or Travels in Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, Samoa, and Other Pacific Islands" - by Maturin Murray Ballou (1888). I don't even remember when I downloaded it. Time to read it

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 17

RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/27/2021 11:22:01 AM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

And, right on cue, Europa Universalis IV releases the "Leviathan" expansion which adds (along with a ton of other things) the Australian aborigines tribes along with their "Dreamtime" religion.

I wonder if I could start my new game with Palawa (the Tasmanian aborigines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians) and do something of importance

Edit: And of course the new DLC is the usual buggy disaster. I'll not ask for a refund (I was tempted) but I always wonder how a company can release a product so buggy that the average player (me) can just fire it up and find a serious bug within 10 minutes.

It is really simple as to how they can release such things. People pay for it and don't ask for their money back when it is so terrible.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 18

RE: American convicts in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) - 4/27/2021 12:05:31 PM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

And, right on cue, Europa Universalis IV releases the "Leviathan" expansion which adds (along with a ton of other things) the Australian aborigines tribes along with their "Dreamtime" religion.

I wonder if I could start my new game with Palawa (the Tasmanian aborigines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians) and do something of importance

Edit: And of course the new DLC is the usual buggy disaster. I'll not ask for a refund (I was tempted) but I always wonder how a company can release a product so buggy that the average player (me) can just fire it up and find a serious bug within 10 minutes.

It is really simple as to how they can release such things. People pay for it and don't ask for their money back when it is so terrible.

A lot of people already asked for a refund and posted their decision on Paradox's EU4 forum. Since I have it on Steam I'm not sure if I can ask for a refund: it is installed directly on my EU4 install - with my 100+ hours of playing. Anyway, I'll wait. I played, literally, 30 minutes and I found from serious bugs to missing art (!) - nothing that can't be fixed with an hotpatch.

You are right about people that "suck it up" - but the EU4 community is showing that they are fed up. One can only hope.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 19