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attacking airfields day 1 - 4/28/2021 11:28:23 PM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		has anyone figured out the magic tip to getting over 3000+ soviet losses on the ground and why am i losing 275/300+ air planes turn 1? its a bit ridiculous. i know this is a different animal but should i use tricks in the 1st WitE game, like trasnfering airunits up closer etc, and what aboyt using the staging bases to launch long distance attacks? its called the kobukli dance or something i think.
Post #: 1
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 2:15:48 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I think I have it down to a sort of science now with 13 AD and averaging 3200-3600 kills and loosing 300-375 just from the AD's. Usually you can get another 400-1000 on overruns.

Most of the my losses is to the bombers out of escort range.


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(in reply to Rick402)
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RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 2:21:42 AM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		yes im getting like 2500/2700. i dont get why the bombers are getting **** down so badly, its like the soviet pilots are made of ice or something. thanks for the reply

(in reply to Rick402)
Post #: 3
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 2:28:28 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		There have been several threads on it, but the essence seems to be make sure you attack the fighter bases first, then move on to the bombers after the fighters have been thinned out (they occur in order that they are listed, but using mission priority is a good way to organize them as well). Keep the really long range strikes to a minimum as that increases your Ops losses. Only 1 strike per field, except some fields with a lot of aircraft on them. After the first strike, in most cases follow-up attacks don't have anything left to hit and are just a waste and again increase your Ops losses.

You set it to 1 strike per field by simply putting in the number of fields in the strike zone as the number of strikes. 4 fields, 4 strikes.

I've seen recommendations to manually set your bombers to as many small bombs as they can carry, but I've gotten good results with leaving it on auto. (Note though that I have not done the full campaign start(

Only equip your fighters with drop tanks if you think it is really important to do so, operating at extended range increases Ops losses.

It takes quite a while to manually set up the strikes, especially for the full campaign.

This is a good thread that discusses it:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5008415

There is a counter-suggestion of not bothering to do it at all. Let the VVS come to you, and you'll chew them up in air combat with auto intercept. This has the advantage of killing pilots as well, but is going to possibly result in more losses on your side. See this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5002220

I think that covers the main points.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick402
yes im getting like 2500/2700. i dont get why the bombers are getting shot down so badly, its like the soviet pilots are made of ice or something. thanks for the reply


Are you sure those are Air Combat losses? They may be Ops losses, which is a result of flying too far and too often.



< Message edited by neuromancer -- 4/29/2021 2:36:10 AM >

(in reply to Rick402)
Post #: 4
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 2:59:20 AM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		no the 2500/2700 thats just ground losses for the soviets

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Post #: 5
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 3:47:23 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 79
Joined: 8/13/2015
Status: offline
quote:

but the essence seems to be make sure you attack the fighter bases first, then move on to the bombers after the fighters have been thinned out (they occur in order that they are listed, but using mission priority is a good way to organize them as well)


This in particular!

And when you think about it, it's really very logical. You don't have to worry about escorts if there aren't any Soviet fighters left to intercept you.

As @neuromancer mentioned, there are lots of other things and you can really get yourself lost in setting up Day 1 that way, but the single most important thing which doesn't really require all that much micro and makes a YUGE difference is the order you strike in. Fighters up close first, then fighters just on the edge of escort range and then, only then, bother with the Soviet bombers and the occasional long range strike if it's just too durn tempting.

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 6
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 5:31:33 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MishaTX
and the occasional long range strike if it's just too durn tempting.


Big fat piles of planes sitting there whispering "blow us up!"

There aren't too many of them, hut there are a few.

(in reply to MishaTX)
Post #: 7
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 7:54:08 AM   
speedyglides

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2015
Status: offline 		I get about 2800 soviet planes down vs 150 for the Axis during the Air Phase resolution, following what has been said above:

- Only target the airfield hex
- 1 attack per airfield but if the airfield is close to 80-100 aircrafts make 2 attacks.
- Target first airfields with fighters
- Target first close to the front airfields
- Then you can go for airfields your escorts don’t reach. This is a balance exercise, as you will get more losses, mainly operational, but it is usually worth.

Then I have GS air directives active for all Army Groups as it will take down quite a few additional Russian airplanes during the first turn battles. It is important that you deactivate GS when battles move far from the initial front, as losses will increase quite a lot. I usually end with about 3300-3500 Russian airplane losses vs. 300+ from the Axis side.

All in all, I think optimizing T1 to the extreme is a little bit overrated but who can resist the beauty of some good statistics?

P.S.: of course, only attacking on D1


< Message edited by speedyglides -- 4/29/2021 11:33:57 AM >

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 8
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 7:59:30 AM   
barkhorn45

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		3200-3600 loses on day one?isn't this a little ahistorical?Goering couldn't believe the 1500+ actual claims

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 9
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 3:02:43 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		At this point to me it really doesn't matter how "many" planes you blow up on day one in WITE2. It is nice to chest pound on the numbers but until the replacement rate of the Soviet airforce is addressed, along with downing more than the replacement rate every turn(if the Soviets even field the air force to keep the Germans from shooting them down) then the Soviet air force will grow in leaps and bounds. I am hinting at a strategy to attack the airplane manufacturing sites for the factories that were "NOT" evacuated east. As far as I understand the rules if you overrun those factories then those factories are kaput. There are a few you can do this to but would take some skill to do. Even overrunning those factories that did evacuate earlier would help in this en-devour.

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Post #: 10
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 4:57:45 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I think that factories that are overrun before they evacuate still evacuate but their turn delay is much bigger. But I could be entirely wrong.

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Post #: 11
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 6:50:36 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: speedyglides
All in all, I think optimizing T1 to the extreme is a little bit overrated but who can resist the beauty of some good statistics?


Heh, pretty much. It looks so cool!

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Post #: 12
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 8:57:01 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

I think that factories that are overrun before they evacuate still evacuate but their turn delay is much bigger. But I could be entirely wrong.



If reading correctly the ones that never evacuated in real life wont evacuate in game. To keep the "historical" folks happy I believe but will make game players angry when it happens ;-). I have a game with this strat going on right now. Now you have to figure out which game it is that I am doing this on. ;-) I only have two games as Germany at the moment so you have a 50/50 chance.

Plus I am also going at very early factory evacuation too in that game for Soviet equipment. That will cause a nice delay. German playground is the Center Map. Said it since the beginning for WITE2


< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 4/29/2021 9:00:32 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/29/2021 9:01:57 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

quote:

ORIGINAL: speedyglides
All in all, I think optimizing T1 to the extreme is a little bit overrated but who can resist the beauty of some good statistics?


Heh, pretty much. It looks so cool!


Yes, that is true. But also to have the highest number of destroyed Soviet planes and the least amount of German losses is the best.

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 14
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/30/2021 12:11:37 AM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		how do you guys initiate indivisual attacks on single airbases? click on indivisual ab? and do you just leave the "Area" on 0 or what?

(in reply to Rick402)
Post #: 15
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/30/2021 12:17:02 AM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		and the germans did destroy over 3000+ aircraft of the soviets. the soviets left alll their planes Neatly parked on All their ab. its perfectly Historical. where are you getting your numbers? cause iver read Multiple reports of both German and Russian history stating this to be Facts.

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Post #: 16
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/30/2021 1:34:03 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick402
how do you guys initiate indivisual attacks on single airbases? click on indivisual ab? and do you just leave the "Area" on 0 or what?


Yep, exactly. You end up with a whole lot of air missions when you're done.
And make sure they are going after Airfields, not the default interdiction.


As for the numbers, Stalin was absolutely convinced - despite many warnings to the contrary - that the Germans wouldn't attack, and refused to allow any sort of preparation. So the planes were parked as it it was peacetime.

(in reply to Rick402)
Post #: 17
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 4/30/2021 12:19:54 PM   
Rondor11


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline 		Best I do is 2400-2500 with 60-85 losses.

I would rather be max efficient than get more planes.

3600 sorties.

< Message edited by Rondor11 -- 4/30/2021 12:22:12 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 5/1/2021 2:22:02 AM   
Rick402

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/28/2019
Status: offline 		your fatjer was really 15 in ww2 and died. thats crazy he snuck in to the navy at that age

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Post #: 19
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 5/9/2021 2:40:50 AM   
DekeFentle

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 3/11/2019
Status: offline 		This is less than 15 AD's total, all but two in the South. Most kills come from fighters destroying the VVS during the ground phase.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 20
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 5/10/2021 9:40:05 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This is only for the North in Road to Leningrad, but I've been not particularly fancy in the last few games and gotten good numbers.

In my last run I got 742 on the ground, for a total 774 VVS aircraft destroyed on the first turn.
Typically only lose around 30 aircraft, mostly to operational losses, a few to flak.

A total of 4 directives, 2 cover the airfields within escort range, these are Very High priority, and then the next 2 go after the fields a little further out at High priority. Anything long range that only has bombers on it I don't even bother with. Longest ranged attack is to Riga. I don't worry about the load outs and let the computer worry about it. Only 1 strike per field unless there are a lot of planes on it - so for the north the two airfields at Alytus and Orany get 3 attacks between the two of them (I tried 4, but the 4th rarely bags anything).


< Message edited by neuromancer -- 5/10/2021 9:42:15 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 5/10/2021 3:48:16 PM   
wpurdom

 

Posts: 476
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I can't cite the manual, but the powers that be here have said that factory evacuation is automatic upon the taking of the city - whether ahead of schedule or not.
Have no idea what the effect of damaging the factory and then taking it is. Let us know.

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 22
RE: attacking airfields day 1 - 5/10/2021 4:10:09 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		if you force an early evacuation it takes more damage but that is the only real difference

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