Air Recon

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Air Recon - 5/20/2021 8:47:44 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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Could someone explain why.

Here we have the results of the recon AD on the right. You can't see the targets but there were set up as Unit HIGH, Railyard LOW, the rest IGNORE. So Why did I get half the missions carrying out interdict with only one unit recon?

The bottom pic is from the commanders report and as you can see two units have fatique (one heavily) and both have travel. Two questions on this

The recon shown was using Mustangs and there were three groups. It appears only one of the groups was used and that the one based furthest away. Why?

The other, heavily fatigued group, flew in a second recon set up similarly to the first but the targets were now unit, railway, interdict all set to med, ignore the rest. The results show no unit recon. Basically the same questions. Why did only one group fly and why no unit recon.

And before someone posts what was the morale, the same as the one that flew.

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RE: Air Recon - 5/20/2021 3:30:33 PM

cfulbright

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Joined: 5/7/2003
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If you want to find units, the target should be "Interdict" not "Unit". Reconning "units" doesn't actually work. Also, don't set any other target types, keep them focused on one target type.

You set up an area size 3, which means 49 possible hexes to recon. Why did you designate only two strikes a day, and only four days to do the recon? That will only generate eight strikes over the turn, which is what you got. If I was assigning three recon air groups totaling 36 aircraft to a interdict recon AD, I'd set Strike Num = 7 and Req AC = 4, for days 1/2/3/4/5/6, which ought to give me 42 strikes and cover most of the 49 hex box.

Why did you pick altitude of 11K'? Recon with low-level cameras snap their photos at 15K', no matter what altitude you set for the AD. I generally want them to fly in and out at a higher (aka safer) altitude, and set low-level recon to 21K'.

How do you have at least three air groups based on a naval task force? I've never seen that before and it shouldn't be possible.

Cary

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 2

RE: Air Recon - 5/21/2021 7:34:18 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

If you want to find units, the target should be "Interdict" not "Unit". Reconning "units" doesn't actually work. Also, don't set any other target types, keep them focused on one target type.

Is this a bug then? Seems no point in there being a unit option if that is the case. POint taken on target types.
This does not explain why I got interdict when none was set up unless, as you say it's broken.

On a test I had 5 groups (59 a/c) fly 10 strikes per day over 4 days. Only 5 units recons were carried out the remaining interdict? Also only three of the groups actually flew?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
You set up an area size 3, which means 49 possible hexes to recon. Why did you designate only two strikes a day, and only four days to do the recon? That will only generate eight strikes over the turn, which is what you got. If I was assigning three recon air groups totaling 36 aircraft to a interdict recon AD, I'd set Strike Num = 7 and Req AC = 4, for days 1/2/3/4/5/6, which ought to give me 42 strikes and cover most of the 49 hex box.

Looking at the results from privious recons and tests, the target hexes for the strikes appear to be random within the box and even in these one, two have been repeated. There's therefore no guarantee every hex in the box will be covered even if you have the numbers you suggest. The only place you are guaranteed recon is the flight path. Having said that, yes I realise the more the merrier proven by the test.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
Why did you pick altitude of 11K'? Recon with low-level cameras snap their photos at 15K', no matter what altitude you set for the AD. I generally want them to fly in and out at a higher (aka safer) altitude, and set low-level recon to 21K'.

Not sure why 11K, thats a mistake but the figures I've seen for optimum altitude is Low 12K, Med 24K, high 36K. Are these wrong? Are you saying strikes will climb or descend to the optimum height when they reach the target hex? Makes sense as you can then mix a/c camera loadouts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
How do you have at least three air groups based on a naval task force? I've never seen that before and it shouldn't be possible.
Cary

I didn't that's the name given to the temp airbases in the Breakout and pursuit 44 scenario.

< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 5/21/2021 7:51:12 AM >

(in reply to cfulbright)

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RE: Air Recon - 5/21/2021 8:44:55 AM

cato13

Posts: 453
Joined: 6/29/2005
From: scotland
Status: offline

Yeah those 12K, 24K and 36K altitudes are bang on according to the editor.

I am surprised to see unit recon doesn't work as that's what i use to recon for units. Is this 100% confirmed?

(in reply to Chris21wen)

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RE: Air Recon - 5/21/2021 4:28:56 PM

cfulbright

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
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Not sure whether to say whether the unit/interdict recon thing is a bug or not. Probably so but I just got used to it years ago and don't think about it.

Like bombing a unit target, if there's no units in the hex the recon will target interdict.

I assume on your 10 strikes a day, you still had Req AC set to 4? Maybe try setting Min AC to 4. I assume the two groups that didn't fly had sufficient range, etc.?

Yes, recon planes will climb or dive up to 12K' to get to optimal altitude. That's why I set to 21K' for the low level recon, so they're above the worst of the low-level flak.

Sorry on the presumption you somehow transferred air groups to a TF (I was jealous and wanted to know the secret!) I've never played Breakout & Pursuit so hadn't seen those airbase names.

Cary

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 5

RE: Air Recon - 5/22/2021 6:04:50 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

Like bombing a unit target, if there's no units in the hex the recon will target interdict.

That I didn't know but explains whats going on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
I assume on your 10 strikes a day, you still had Req AC set to 4? Maybe try setting Min AC to 4. I assume the two groups that didn't fly had sufficient range, etc.?

So 4 per flight is the recommeded number per flight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfulbright
Yes, recon planes will climb or dive up to 12K' to get to optimal altitude. That's why I set to 21K' for the low level recon, so they're above the worst of the low-level flak.

Cary

And climb. Just seen a update that says they will change heigt by upto 10K.

(in reply to cfulbright)

Post #: 6

RE: Air Recon - 5/22/2021 6:32:11 AM

cfulbright

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Joined: 5/7/2003
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quote:

So 4 per flight is the recommeded number per flight.

It's a tradeoff between the size of the area you're reconning and the number of aircraft you have available. For low-level/interdict recon I generally set a Req AC of 4 and then the number of strikes to be ~75% of the available AC, so some can rest. For example, if I have 36 AC in an AD, I'll set 7 strikes of 4AC each, so 28 planes should fly and 8 should rest each day.

Cary

< Message edited by cfulbright -- 5/22/2021 4:21:47 PM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)

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RE: Air Recon - 5/22/2021 11:25:03 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

Carried out a short test. What I wanted to find out was how many strikes you can fly with a set number of a/c so that all groups involved are used. I.e Distance traveled.

He's what I was using and the recon results. All three groups used in the AD were Mustags with low cameras searching for units. The results were poor, not enough strikes. Ignore the four light hexes in the botton left corner, different recon AD.

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< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 5/22/2021 11:42:29 AM >

(in reply to cfulbright)

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RE: Air Recon - 5/22/2021 11:27:58 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

I gradually increased the strikes AND lowered the height to 12K, optimal height for a low camera. Results were much better.

Apart from much better results all round you now have excellent recon of the flight path. Although the Mustangs will drop to 12K from 21K they only do it in the target area, hence you don't get optimal recon with low camera on the flight path.

The number of srtikes is 20 a day, total 80 over the four days. From the commanders report you can see the three Mustangs groups in the AD all now have similar distance traveled where as in the original, one never used. Dispite the large number of stikes both fatique and morale fall is low, surprisingly so I think.

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< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 5/22/2021 11:42:02 AM >

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RE: Air Recon - 5/22/2021 4:29:35 PM

cfulbright

Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/7/2003
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Thanks for doing the research. I hadn't thought about the loss of optimal recon along the flight path until you just mentioned it.

Cary

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 10

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Air Recon