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X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 11:45:13 AM

clamel

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A small incident in one of my TFs going north. A KV Thyme collided with a cargo ship and I thought it should head for a port closeby. That port was Goa (4/4 on port) But that started a trouble. I never noticed the port had ZERO Naval Support.

OK Thyme was disbanded in port and put to repair pierside. Later I checked and now it had just those two Major damage left. In my newbie state of stupidness I thought. OK, I set it in Readiness and later a new TF and try to get it up to Bombay.

Now the trouble started. Having the ship in readiness I looked in some days later and it showed X (no repair). I could not put it in any TFs and kept moving it back to pierside didn't help.
I feel I kind of stuck with the luckless KV Thyme in Goa.

What to do ??? Is the only help to get some sort of repair ship all the way to Goa, or find any BF that could help. It kind of look lost.

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< Message edited by clamel -- 5/28/2021 11:48:39 AM >

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 12:02:32 PM

Yaab

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Khyme's damage is all MAJOR. Move her at cruise speed to Bombay which has a shipyard. There, put Khyme into the shipyard, and the shipyard will repair the ship completely.

Also, with each new turn, you should read the Operational Report, which has messages about ships that cannot be repaired. Look for messages that read like the following

No additional repairs possible on xAP President Coolidge using currently assigned resources at San Francisco
No additional repairs possible on SS Cuttlefish using currently assigned resources at Pearl Harbor

< Message edited by Yaab -- 5/28/2021 12:05:18 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 12:14:46 PM

dcpollay

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1) You said you looked, "some days later." How many days was that? When you switch from Pierside repair to Readiness, it typically takes 3 days before the ship is eligible to sail. If at some point you tried switching it back into Pierside again you may have restarted that clock.

2) Major damage will not repair in readiness mode. I'm not sure if a level 4 port is big enough to repair major damage at all. Someone else can weigh in on that. If it does, the repair process may be slow enough that you didn't notice the damage going down in the period you left it there.

3) You said you saw the "X" showing no repair when it was in Readiness mode. That would be expected, since repair of major damage doesn't happen in readiness mode. What was the symbol or number in that place when the ship was in Pierside mode? That will tell you a lot about your conditions. A number is the estimated days to complete the repair. If the number is large, then see #2 above.

4) When you created a TF for the ship, did you try an Escort TF? These are designed to move any type of ship anytime, including heavily damaged craft. Sometimes if damage is bad enough the game engine will not assign a ship to combat duty such as an ASW or Transport TF. Your damage numbers don't look high enough for that, but again, someone else could tell you better.

If those items don't solve your issue, posting a screen shot of the ship repair screen in both Readiness and Pierside repair mode might be helpful.

Good Luck!

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 12:47:04 PM

Ian R

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Read Alfred's ship repair 101 guide, and proceed accordingly.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 4:36:23 PM

BBfanboy

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To help ensure it does not disband again in the present port, put it in an Escort TF, set the HOME PORT to Bombay, set the Routing to Direct & Absolute, and leave it set on "Do Not Disband" just in case it still wants to do that in Goa.

When it gets to Bombay just manually disband it and move it to Shipyard repair.

Re: port size and major damage, a Size 7 or greater port can repair up to five points of major damage without a shipyard. Thyme's major damage is too great for that.

Some mood music for the occasion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jj4s9I-53g

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:18:35 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel
I never noticed the port had ZERO Naval Support.

The guys covered most of what you need to know, but to clarify, "Naval Support" does NOT repair major damage.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:25:13 PM

clamel

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Ok, thanks guys. Let me add this.
It might be a day problem, but why don't I see the days as I do in some other ports with ships on pierside or readiness with damage ?
I said I tried to form a TF and put it in it, BUT obviously it isn't turning up as a choice so that's why I guess days is the problem.

Yes, I even printed out Ship Repair by Albert, but that X (no repair) isn't covered as I understand. Once more maybe the days for it to move from one state to the other. BUT I did hope that the transformation time was shown in days, as I have seen in other cases.

And to asnwer what was the info when it was Stood Down and in Pierside. The very same X (no repairs) in red. No days at all.

I do hope giving it some more days in readiness and see if the ship pops up when I try to form a new TF. So far NOTHING is popping up.

The final solution is of ccourse clear to me. Get it in a TF and move it to Bombay. Just ain't possible right now. It's stuck in Goa. Not the worse place to be stuck in.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:38:51 PM

geofflambert

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It doesn't instantly go to available to add to a TF when you put it in readiness mode. Try doing that the next day. Go from "Stood down" to "Readiness" then come back tomorrow. Every time you touch that mode will delay it a day. Put it in readiness mode and don't touch that again.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:41:32 PM

geofflambert

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If you even just tap those modes just to find out how many days each mode will take you've put the ship out of action for that turn. Just pushing buttons over and over again will get you nowhere.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:43:23 PM

Kull

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Look at your screenshot. Right above "Pierside" there is clickable yellow text saying "Stood Down". Clcik that once and it will change to "Readiness". The ship will now appear (greyed out) in the Active ships port view looking like CV Hornet in this screenshot:

Attachment (1)

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 8:44:42 PM

Kull

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Hover the cursor over the ship name and you'll see text similar to that in the screenshot, telling you the ship will be available in 3 days.

Edit:
And to Geoff's point, leave it alone for all 3 days and don't mess around with the repair buttons. In 3 days the ship name will change from grey to yellow, and then you can follow BBfanboy's "moving it to Bombay" instructions (to the letter).

< Message edited by Kull -- 5/28/2021 8:51:05 PM >

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 10:17:26 PM

geofflambert

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You will get notice in the Operations report when the ship is ready for service or that no further repairs can be effected in that port.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/28/2021 10:30:23 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You will get notice in the Operations report when the ship is ready for service or that no further repairs can be effected in that port.

The AI cannot report a number of days for repair because it does not yet know where it will be repaired. Goa cannot repair it at all so it is a "divide by 0" proposition which the AI cannot calculate. Once in the shipyard at Bombay the ability to repair will be positive and the AI can apply the available SY points to the damage and work out the number of days. For a small ship like that it will likely be less than a week.

Also be aware of the section in Ship Repair 101 about repairing devices - damaged radars, gun turrets, torpedo tubes and so on. The AI requires an entire day after the ship is disbanded in port to work out how long the device repair will take and add that to the total repair time. So don't panic if your battleship suddenly goes from an initial estimate of 15 days to repair to 65 days next turn - that's just the way the repair algorithm works.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 1:45:04 AM

geofflambert

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I misspoke with "in that port". The message is like this

Attachment (1)

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 5:40:42 AM

rustysi

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Read this...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=101%2Cship%2Crepair%2Cguide#

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 7:56:13 AM

Dili

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quote:

I could not put it in any TFs and kept moving it back to pierside didn't help.

What this means?

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 4:02:36 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

I could not put it in any TFs and kept moving it back to pierside didn't help.

What this means?

A screenshot would have helped, but it sounds like he was not allowing the time required to transition from pierside to readiness status (as much as three days if the ship still has damage) and he could not understand why he could not immediately put the ship in a TF to move it. The delay in moving between repair modes was not taken into account. That also happens if a ship is moved from shipyard repair to readiness before it has repaired all the float and engineering damage the SY was working on. Patching holes in the hull is important before reflooding the drydock!

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 5:49:39 PM

clamel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

I could not put it in any TFs and kept moving it back to pierside didn't help.

What this means?

A screenshot would have helped, but it sounds like he was not allowing the time required to transition from pierside to readiness status (as much as three days if the ship still has damage) and he could not understand why he could not immediately put the ship in a TF to move it. The delay in moving between repair modes was not taken into account. That also happens if a ship is moved from shipyard repair to readiness before it has repaired all the float and engineering damage the SY was working on. Patching holes in the hull is important before reflooding the drydock!

First I will thank you all for answering and trying hard to help me out. I appreciate that a lot.

Well, what I ment was that I had this ship and the AMc Amritsar in Goa. (that one was in a TF) When I clicked on form TF I got three picks. Support, LocalMnSwp and Escort. BUT Thyme do not pop up to select whatever TF I pick.
Now the problem of getting the ship into Readiness is solved, 2 turns later it is of the repair picks when one click "Show ships under repair". So maybe it will be available to add to a TF a couple of turns later.

But I have difficulties with this repair thing.
When this issue looks to sort it out another popped up, still even more weird I think.
In Pearl I had a bunch of ships for repair, pierside and shipyard. I picked some at Pierside with very low minor damage and clicking on Repair Type from Stood Down to Readiness worked fine with some BBs. You get the Stood Down to change and a priority pop up, then you got those save changes and cnacel changes.

Then this AP Hirondelle, with just a 1 system damage, looked OK to bring back. Hovering over the Stand Down I can see a black Box text saying "Bring back to Readiness", as with the others. That worked fine with all the other ships BUT not this one. It just don't change at all, remain in Stood Down. Since similar other ships easily did what I hoped, why not this AP ?
Clicking on the Pierside only changed it to Shipyard. So that was not the solution.

I will leave it alone since it say 3 days to fully repaired and then I take it will come back automatic.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 9:56:17 PM

BBfanboy

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With your fuller explanation of the issue, I would now say that your problem is that the types of TF mission assignments that the AMc can have are not compatible with what a KV can be assigned to. There is a chart in the manual that shows what mission types are available to different ship types.

The exception is an "Escort" mission that was intended to mean damaged ships being escorted to a port but is sometimes used to put incompatible ship types in the same TF. In fact if you remove a CV or CVL from its escorting destroyers so that you can repair some damage on the former, the DDs revert from an Air Combat TF type to a Surface Combat type. When you subsequently try to reunite the CV/CVL with the DDs you cannot simply move the carriers into the SCTF because it is incompatible with the CV/CVL type of ship. The workaround is to change the DDs to an Escort TF type, move the carrier into the TF and then change it to an Air Combat TF.

As for Hirondelle, if it was just converting from an xAKL to the xAP type, it cannot be removed from stood down status until the full time of its conversion has passed - i.e. if it said it would take 14 days to convert, you cannot remove it from stood downs status on day 13 of the repairs.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/29/2021 11:20:39 PM

RangerJoe

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AMcs work when disbanded, there is no need for them to be in a TF to protect that port.

The ACM also works when it is disbanded but it will use some fuel each day. If the ACM runs out of fuel, it will not work. The player has to tell it to refuel, the captain and crew are too stupid to do it on their own.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/30/2021 12:15:09 PM

clamel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

With your fuller explanation of the issue, I would now say that your problem is that the types of TF mission assignments that the AMc can have are not compatible with what a KV can be assigned to. There is a chart in the manual that shows what mission types are available to different ship types.

The exception is an "Escort" mission that was intended to mean damaged ships being escorted to a port but is sometimes used to put incompatible ship types in the same TF. In fact if you remove a CV or CVL from its escorting destroyers so that you can repair some damage on the former, the DDs revert from an Air Combat TF type to a Surface Combat type. When you subsequently try to reunite the CV/CVL with the DDs you cannot simply move the carriers into the SCTF because it is incompatible with the CV/CVL type of ship. The workaround is to change the DDs to an Escort TF type, move the carrier into the TF and then change it to an Air Combat TF.

As for Hirondelle, if it was just converting from an xAKL to the xAP type, it cannot be removed from stood down status until the full time of its conversion has passed - i.e. if it said it would take 14 days to convert, you cannot remove it from stood downs status on day 13 of the repairs.

What a fool I am. Of course that Hoirondelle was put in Shipyard to convert. I do follow Kulls' papers, but was too lazy to go back and check. Guess Albert would have had my head for this.

I guess the Thyme problem will be checked in a turn or two, but now I'm good. Since it's in readiness I have hope

Only because your great patience with an ole man and newbie on this game.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/30/2021 12:16:27 PM

clamel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

AMcs work when disbanded, there is no need for them to be in a TF to protect that port.

The ACM also works when it is disbanded but it will use some fuel each day. If the ACM runs out of fuel, it will not work. The player has to tell it to refuel, the captain and crew are too stupid to do it on their own.

Thanks for the help mate. I can do with a lot in this nice beast of a game. Even reading until eyes pops out I got more even to learn.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/30/2021 2:15:08 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

AMcs work when disbanded, there is no need for them to be in a TF to protect that port.

The ACM also works when it is disbanded but it will use some fuel each day. If the ACM runs out of fuel, it will not work. The player has to tell it to refuel, the captain and crew are too stupid to do it on their own.

Thanks for the help mate. I can do with a lot in this nice beast of a game. Even reading until eyes pops out I got more even to learn.

I am also an "ole man" and have been playing the game since 2009. I still learn some new things occasionally - like Recon aircraft being left with no target defined and the "Commander's Choice" script will then find previously undetected LCUs nearby. And then there are all the things I once knew and forgot that I get to re-learn again. Now I know what "life-long learning" really means!

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/31/2021 3:40:45 PM

clamel

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So correct BBFanBoy. One learn new things all the time in this game, but then sadly forget some along the way. That's age I guess.

One thing I just figured out and as said forgotten was if I hover over Thyme I can see the blackbox inform me how many days it takes for the ship to be avalaible to get into a TF and sail of to Bombay. The damn thing will probably sink after all this woohoo.
A solid proof that I forgot that, since I recognized it when finding out.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/31/2021 4:06:46 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

So correct BBFanBoy. One learn new things all the time in this game, but then sadly forget some along the way. That's age I guess.

One thing I just figured out and as said forgotten was if I hover over Thyme I can see the blackbox inform me how many days it takes for the ship to be avalaible to get into a TF and sail of to Bombay. The damn thing will probably sink after all this woohoo.
A solid proof that I forgot that, since I recognized it when finding out.

At least you recognized it and did not use an acronym for "Way To Fly!"

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RE: X No repair ?? - 5/31/2021 6:02:16 PM

rustysi

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quote:

One learn new things all the time in this game, but then sadly forget some along the way. That's age I guess.

Not totally... It the game, too much to remember.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 6/1/2021 3:16:55 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I am also an "ole man" and have been playing the game since 2009. I still learn some new things occasionally - like Recon aircraft being left with no target defined and the "Commander's Choice" script will then find previously undetected LCUs nearby. And then there are all the things I once knew and forgot that I get to re-learn again. Now I know what "life-long learning" really means!

I wonder about but haven't looked into - do Recon squadrons assigned a target only send one plane and everyone else sits on their duff? I think commander discretion sends most of them out so that's my default. Maybe I'm wrong.

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RE: X No repair ?? - 6/1/2021 9:27:14 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

AMcs work when disbanded, there is no need for them to be in a TF to protect that port.

The ACM also works when it is disbanded but it will use some fuel each day. If the ACM runs out of fuel, it will not work. The player has to tell it to refuel, the captain and crew are too stupid to do it on their own.

First time since game release I have seen anyone claim that AMcs work when disbanded.

This is NOT my experience. Unlike ACMs, AMcs do NOT consume fuel when disbanded.

ACMs are the only ship type that consumes fuel when disbanded, leading one to the conclusion that they are also the only ship type that performs its function disbanded.

Tenders are excepted from the claim above as they expend loaded supply not fuel while performing functions disbanded.
ARs obviously also perform their functions while disbanded.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 6/1/2021 9:46:35 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: X No repair ?? - 6/1/2021 9:54:25 AM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

AMcs work when disbanded, there is no need for them to be in a TF to protect that port.

The ACM also works when it is disbanded but it will use some fuel each day. If the ACM runs out of fuel, it will not work. The player has to tell it to refuel, the captain and crew are too stupid to do it on their own.

First time since game release I have seen anyone claim that AMcs work when disbanded.

This is NOT my experience. Unlike ACMs, AMcs do NOT consume fuel when disbanded.

ACMs are the only ship type that consumes fuel when disbanded, leading one to the conclusion that they are also the only ship type that performs its function disbanded.

Tenders are excepted from the claim above as they expend loaded supply not fuel while performing functions disbanded.
ARs obviously also perform their functions while disbanded.

Check out this thread.

ACMs: I think I've missed something

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3694324&mpage=1

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 29

RE: X No repair ?? - 6/2/2021 1:59:25 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I am also an "ole man" and have been playing the game since 2009. I still learn some new things occasionally - like Recon aircraft being left with no target defined and the "Commander's Choice" script will then find previously undetected LCUs nearby. And then there are all the things I once knew and forgot that I get to re-learn again. Now I know what "life-long learning" really means!

I wonder about but haven't looked into - do Recon squadrons assigned a target only send one plane and everyone else sits on their duff? I think commander discretion sends most of them out so that's my default. Maybe I'm wrong.

I tracked plane and pilot fatigue in a Recon squadron of 8 aircraft. The squadron as a whole was given the recon orders for a single enemy location. Time and again when I checked only two aircraft and two pilots showed increased fatigue - evidence they had flown the mission. And the Ops reports on the other side only reported spotting one of that aircraft type overflying the target in the morning and afternoon.

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