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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939

 
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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/7/2021 2:13:15 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		In the South Front the Japanese are approaching our forts leading to Kweichow, while Kweilin and Nanning are both still in our hands…




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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/7/2021 2:41:41 PM   
boudi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taifun


quote:

ORIGINAL: boudi

Sorry i return to March '40, as i read : "Malaya prepares for war and the UK begins construction to expand the port of Singapore."

I never make this choice. I think that it's very expensive, 200 MPPS, and yet Singapore still falls very easily to the Japanese. What is your opinion ?

Very intersting game.


I think that getting Malaya is a must for the Allied player. You get immediately 3 Infantry corps (that I usually use very early in Africa) at a discount price plus the opportunity to defend and fortify Malaya well in advance of the Japanese attack.


Sorry if i disturb your AAR. These 3 corps are given too when Malaya become at war, when Japan attacks Philippines. Moreother they are malasian units, so they disappear when Malaya surrenders.

And if you wait the free Malaya enter of war, you have not to pay these 200 MPPS. In the other hand Malaya should give some MMPS early, between March 40 and around december 41, but i don't know how many, if it's more, or less, than 200 MPPs.

Another problem, the event fire in March '40, when Uk needs, maybe, all its MPPs in order to build some INF corps for defending the mother islands : Sealion is far away easier in this game than in reality, as the german bombers, protected by more and strongers fighters than UK has, are deadly against the Royal Navy in the Channel.

Sorry again, I can't wait to read the rest.


< Message edited by boudi -- 6/8/2021 7:58:36 AM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/7/2021 8:31:16 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:

Sorry if i disturb your AAR, but these 3 corps are Malasian or british ? The question is if they disappear when Malaya surrenders ?

Another problem, the event fire in March '40, when Uk needs, maybe, all its MPPs in order to build some INF corps for defending the mother islands : Sealion is far away easyer in this game than in reality, as the german bombers, protected by more and strongers fighters than UK have, are deadly against the Royal Navy in the Channel.


Altough I don't agree fully with backdrop (MPP's for anti-sealion), this question about Malaya is very valid. On one side, 3 corps and some MPP's for 200$ in 4 turns sounds very good. On the other hand though, this event fires when UK is hard pressed for cash. And that's in normal game, not a knife battle in phone booth like here.

What is more, to use these Malaya guys you need to transport them out (25$ for one), and still get them back before Singapore gets attacked. And with their low morale, it's hard to imagine they will last even if somehow prepared. Journey to IEA is valid, but as mentioned, it's an additional cost, when RPA/Australians could do the job and will be moved nevertheless. Is there a flaw in this argumentation? And did you send them to IEA in this game?

Taifun, one more question, though it may wait until Barbarossa - Why 'yes' to Winter War? Mobilization hit for some forest hexes doesn't sound appealing. Is there something dirty in mind?

Doing quite well in China, but without US aid this will be another story.
Great read!

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/7/2021 8:52:12 PM   
boudi

 

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Status: offline 		Marcinos1985 I just edited my post in the same time you wrote your. I gave some clarifications about my opinion after I fired this event in a quick solo hotseat game test.

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 8:04:57 AM   
boudi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985
Why 'yes' to Winter War? Mobilization hit for some forest hexes doesn't sound appealing. I



if you answer no, this is the consequences (quoted from the strategic guide)

No: Nothing, except that in September 1940 the USSR will be presented with a decision offering them the opportunity
to improve their preparations for winter warfare. The difference being that due to the lack of recent experience
of winter warfare, the lack of a real feeling of urgency on this issue would make it cost 75 MPPs.

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Post #: 35
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 9:12:16 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taifun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

This is very interesting indeed!


Many thanks Bill. What do you think about Tripoli port reverting to Italian ownership even though there is a British garrison in Tripoli itself? I guess that it is because it is adjacent to the reverted Italian hex, but I think that this should not be that way...


I'm not exactly sure, but wonder if it was tied in to the French surrender?

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 9:25:35 AM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		Boudi please disturb! This is the objective of this AAR, to make it interactive and share ideas! Please feel free to ask all your ideas
Concerning the Malaya decision it depends on the German strategy. If I do not feel that Sea Lion is going to be activated, as I did in this game, I like to defend Egypt with all the forces available. I want to be as annoying in the Mediterranean as possible. I also like to fortify Malaya and send maritime bombers and all kind of stuff to the peninsula to delay the Japanese.

I usually say yes to the Winter War as I want to feel safe from the north. I learned from WiE that you can attack Leningrad with the Germans from that area, as I did in my game against smckechnie. Also I can lower the supply value of Viipuri making it 0 with the adjacent 2 units.

< Message edited by Taifun -- 6/8/2021 9:26:22 AM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 9:27:45 AM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		September 13-27 1940
The Führer redeployed all the Luftwaffe bombers back to Malta from Tunisia (for better supply) and started to bomb Valletta and the ports. As expected a German panzerkorps driving south from Tunisia attacked Tripoli, while the retreating Australians recaptured Sirte town. The last Italians defending Tobruk are by now exhausted and General Guzzoni will hold only 1 more turn.

Important reinforcements are coming for General Montgomery!
After our 2 Carriers made a reconnaissance of Casablanca, Fez and Oran and declared the area free of enemy troops, 3 transports entered the Mediterranean Sea with General Lord Gort, an AA unit and the Indian Army aboard (all that could be spared from the UK). It is always tricky to cross the area between Tunis and Sicily with so many Axis bombers in the area but the fact that the 2 Italian subs are busy sieging Malta will help their passage… once Malta is in Axis hands the crossing is much more complicated. To assist with the reconnaissance a unit of Canadian Maritime bombers was deployed to Benghazi.

In Alexandria disembarked 3 new infantry corps, one from South Africa and 2 Malaysian. Additionally a further welcomed reinforcement arrived as a unit of special forces from Rhodesia was created (by script) in Siwa.

Communist China joins the Allies.




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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 9:30:23 AM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		October 11 1940
The last Italians under General Guzzoni were finally captured or destroyed near Tobruk. They have bravely fought until the end, but the issue was never in doubt. Since the beginning of the war Italy has lost 3 Armies, 2 Infantry Corps and 2 garrisons all in low supply and it will be very difficult for their anemic economy to replace them.
The German High Command wants to do business in Africa: a second panzerkorps (mot) and a para unit suddenly appeared near Tripoli. Our defending Malta AA unit was miraculously evacuated by sea to Alexandria (strength 3). Malta was again subjected to heavy air attacks by bombers from Sicily.

It is now clear that IIo4Tu was beginning a strong offensive in Libya. But how strong is the German attacking force? Should I defend Cyrenaica (El Agheila- Benghazi-Tobruk triangle) or should I position my defending forces further back near the Egyptian border? I did not want to make a decision at this moment, I needed to gather additional information. So the precious transports, after crossing safely the Sicilian strait, were put “on hold” at Alexandria port…
The British 7th Armoured was formed in Egypt. Hungary and Romania joined the Axis Alliance.




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< Message edited by Taifun -- 6/8/2021 1:24:30 PM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 10:01:41 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:

if you answer no, this is the consequences (quoted from the strategic guide)

No: Nothing, except that in September 1940 the USSR will be presented with a decision offering them the opportunity to improve their preparations for winter warfare. The difference being that due to the lack of recent experience of winter warfare, the lack of a real feeling of urgency on this issue would make it cost 75 MPPs.


Yes yes, I know, the cost rises from 50 to 75. Is it worth the mobilization hit? Maybe Taifun has something else in mind.

Edit:And apparently he did answer, which I missed.

< Message edited by Marcinos1985 -- 6/8/2021 10:05:39 AM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 10:48:25 AM   
boudi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taifun

Concerning the Malaya decision it depends on the German strategy. If I do not feel that Sea Lion is going to be activated, as I did in this game, I like to defend Egypt with all the forces available.


I have to stop speaking about this event. Last post, i promise. The problem is that the event is launched in March 40'. It's seems to early to know if the german player will try sealion or not. And considering how long it takes to build the corps, you have to decide right away, even before the event, in order to have at least 4 corps on London and 3 ports before june 40, in the event that the BEF is destroyed in France.

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 12:00:09 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		It is always a difficult decision, but in this game is was much easier to make as I spotted the 2 paras in Sicily February 16th 1940. With the Axis so heavily involved in the Mediterranean it was impossible for Germany to think about an invasion. Also the way the Axis players uses his U-Boote early in the game tells you a lot of info, as well as the way he spends the MPPs early can give you hints of what he is buying or investing in. You usually have time to rebuild the destroyed BEF units in France. You do not need 4 Infantry corps, buy instead 3 AA units as I did in my game. They are cheaper and can defend very well when entrenched. I always buy the 3 AAs first before anything else, as I want then arriving in march 1940.
Also, I feel save from invasion if I have the 3 CVs in range of the UK.

From all my games (about 20 in WiE and WAW) I was invaded only once, and it ended badly for the Germans. They took most of the UK but Barbarossa was a complete mess and I as already invading Poland with the USSR in 1941. It is very a very difficult task for the Germans as only the best players can succeed. I like the Malaya position in the Pacific!


< Message edited by Taifun -- 6/8/2021 12:02:35 PM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 12:08:46 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		To give you an idea of one of my defensive positioning from one of my last games ... May 24 1940. 2 Indian garrisons help while most of the BEF is in North Africa...




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< Message edited by Taifun -- 6/8/2021 12:10:50 PM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 12:55:45 PM   
boudi

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 1/7/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Sure you don' lack of AA guns. I did'nt imagine that they are efficient in order to defend ports in England.

I had a bad experience as i defended Portsmouth with a militia, it was clearly not sufficient and UK was invaded quickly by a wave of german inf and Pzd.

Thank you for your answers Taifun.

< Message edited by boudi -- 6/8/2021 12:56:09 PM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 1:26:54 PM   
boudi

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 1/7/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

back to Malta


back to Sicily ?


quote:

It is always tricky to cross the area between Tunis and Sicily with so many Axis bombers in the area


Ohhhh yes.... It's allway a difficult decision. Intense moment of the AAR. Need music for a war movie from twenty century fox


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Post #: 45
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 4:50:41 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		October 25-November 8 1940
Malta was finally captured by German paras and panzers passed through Tripoli on their push southeast along the coast. After reconnoitering the Tripolitania coast, no additional German forces were spotted. Tripoli city+port were showing supply level 5 and Sirte town level 3. I felt that the Germans were not strong enough to push very far as they lacked infantry (1 army plus 1-2 infantry corps should have done the job). Under the overall command of General Montgomery were 2 additional HQs, 6 Infantry corps, 3 Armies, 2 AAs, 1 tank, 1 Antitank (AT), 1 Special Forces plus artillery and some aviation. A considerably larger force, but with many units low on moral and in the process of being upgraded and refitted. Interdicting their long supply line was the key.

I decided to defend forward, around the El Agheila bottleneck, the gate to Egypt. So General Lord Gort disembarked at Benghazi port with 2 Indian Armies and the AA unit and was ordered to hold the area. The tired Australians were ordered to make a stand and defend El Agheila town while the Antitank unit was positioned in the key marshy Hex next to El Agheila. This will gain time for General Monty’s troops around Tobruk to reinforce, upgrade and refit after taking the Fortress. The Task Force (including 2 carriers) that was stationed defending Gibraltar, was ordered to protect the Benghazi area of operations.
Tripoli City was bombed by our strategic bombers and damaged to level 2.
Kweilin and Chenchow were captured by the Japanese.





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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 4:53:31 PM   
Taifun


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Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		December 6 1940
The Australians holding El Agheila were eliminated very easily, barely offering resistance to the advancing panzers and worse still the town was captured level 5. To make matters still worse a 3rd panzerkorps (mot) was spotted near Sirte with heavy Luftwaffe support. The situation has changed radically. If it is already complicated enough to stop a fanatically motivated German panzerkorps in 1940, there is no way that our weak infantry could stop 3 panzerkorps in open ground. Change of plans: our precious AT unit evacuated the key mash Hex and retired, their place in the marshes being occupied by an Indian Army. Monty redeployed the tanks forward while the bulk of our infantry forces regrouped around Tobruk (supply level 2).

We needed to lower the supply level of the attacking Germans: Sirte was bombed to level 2 and El Agheila bombarded by our BB to level 3. The long drive from Tunisia all the way to the front has lowered the moral and readiness of the attackers.

Foreign Minister reports diplomatic success: Turkey Axis +4%.
The Africa Korps deployed for service in the Mediterranean.




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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 5:06:46 PM   
Taifun


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Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		December 17 1940
The Indian 14th Army holding the key marsh Hex near to El Agheila was destroyed opening the gate to Cyrenaira. Not surprisingly, such victory emboldened the German cause. After easily eliminating 2 Allied infantry units, seeing the AT retire and with now what seemed only weak rearguard Allied forces in front of them the OKW surely though that General Montgomery was in full retreat… They pushed beyond El Agheila leaving a panzerkorps (mot) and a para ready to pounce on the retreating Allies…

More bad news… Nanning was captured by the Japanese.




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< Message edited by Taifun -- 6/8/2021 5:09:11 PM >

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 5:17:12 PM   
LoneRunner

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 8/16/2020
Status: offline 		Thank you Taifun and IIo4Tu for the excellent AAR. With annotated screenshots and historical photos! Wow!

I know it's a lot of work. But watching two experts play really increases my understanding and enjoyment of the game. Appreciate what you do.

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 6:07:24 PM   
EarlyDoors


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Status: offline 		Any sign of the u boat menace at this stage?


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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 6:37:14 PM   
BaggieMania

 

Posts: 40
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Status: offline 		Enjoying the spectacle sofar :) My gameplay is waaaay to traditional for what I am witnessing here !

< Message edited by BaggieMania -- 6/8/2021 6:40:03 PM >

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Post #: 51
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 6:42:46 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		Many thanks LoneRunner I appreciate the support!
The U-Boote plus cruiser raiders are sinking around 20-30 MPPs every turn, mainly in the Australian convoy route South of Madagascar. I think that I already lost about 500 MPPs but I will post a graph next turn. No U-Boots were sunk, several were damaged and I lost 2 DDs. The Axis have an operating port east of Madagascar (I think Reunion) where they resupply...

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 8:09:42 PM   
Marcinos1985

 

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Status: offline 		3 Panzers in NA and it's already 12.1940, still far away from Egypt. Ofc you will take a serious beating there, but for USSR it's a dreamland. If I count right, there will be 5 GER tanks in Russia - a formidable force, but far from a deathstar.
How are USSR prep BTW? Forts, tech, additional units?

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 9:54:07 PM   
Cpuncher

 

Posts: 354
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Status: offline 		Haven't been checking the forum lately and now I found this great AAR by Taifun. Taifun is arguably one of the best members of this community, and this is not just about his game skills. IIo4Tu is such a formidable player (being an extremely fast learner) and I fear he is already an elite now. I had the luck to have played against both of them recently. IIo4Tu started his game against me as a fairly novice player, only to play at an advanced level some 25 turns later. Taifun played against me after a long hiatus, which is probably the reason why he was quite off balance...there is actually much to talk about that game, and I probably should write something about it, either here or start a new thread, if Taifun is ok with it.

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RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/8/2021 10:25:13 PM   
Cpuncher

 

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Status: offline 		IIo4Tu just showed us that Germany can spare a significant force to capture Algiers before Vichy. What a great move! To this I don't think the Allies has any counter. They are already hard pressed to defend France to give Russia a chance (every turn that France surrender earlier is a dooms nail on the Russian coffin), there is simply no force to spare to defend Algiers, while Germany can easily spare 2 paras and a Panzer (at most delay Vichy by 1 turn, definitely worth it if all of France can be captured). Not sure how much US mobilization will gain if Germany takes the whole France, but Spain and Turkey will definitely move quite a bit toward Axis. Both are significant problems for the Allies.

I consider this a bit of a game breaking move which further enhances the Axis winning chances. TBH, if a player understands 95% of the game mechanics and can put himself to the task of managing every aspect of them, and follow the established cookie cutter strategies, I don't see how Russia can remain relevant past 43. The game as it is now, it's game over once Russia is gone (This may be the most important game balance topic, already discussed extensively, but no real solution yet without causing other problems...)

For this kind of Algiers move, something needs to be done. One thing I believe strongly, is to not allow ports to be functional the turn it is captured. I think both realistically and for the game's sake, the defending side should always be given a chance to respond to a para/amphibious invasion. But if the invader can just ship in 5-6 units in the same turn it captures a port, the defender simply will have no chance to respond, and can cause problems like here that Allies simply has no way to defend Algiers. It will make Sealion more difficult which was historically impossible anyway. It does make the Allied landing in Europe more challenging, but Allies will need a huge concerted effort for that anyway.

In addition perhaps a scripted corps can pop up should any Axis unit show up in French N Africa.


< Message edited by Cpuncher -- 6/9/2021 1:28:05 AM >

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Post #: 55
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/9/2021 4:31:01 AM   
IIo4Tu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcinos1985

3 Panzers in NA and it's already 12.1940, still far away from Egypt. Ofc you will take a serious beating there, but for USSR it's a dreamland. If I count right, there will be 5 GER tanks in Russia - a formidable force, but far from a deathstar.
How are USSR prep BTW? Forts, tech, additional units?


The consequences of the attack on Italy on the first move and the subsequent capture of Libya. A significant advantage for the allies despite the mobilization penalty for the United States.

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Post #: 56
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/9/2021 8:09:12 AM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		It will be an honor if Cpuncher writes a short AAR of our last game! I took a serious beating! I can’t think of a better expert to explain to new players the internal organs of the game. This game is great because at first glance it looks simple, but it takes many many games to understand the entrails and mechanism fully. I only really advanced in my understanding when I lost games: first against Sugar, then Fafnir and finally Cpuncher.

January 3 1941
As I write this lines we are only 2 turns behind our current turn.
Taking notice that both the panzerkorps (mot) and the German para were low on supply (4) General Montgomery ordered an immediate counterattack!! All the available Allied aviation pounced on the unsuspecting panzerkorps (stationed in a vulnerable marsh hex that enhances the destructive power of bombers) and the AT finished the proud nazi unit. The 7th FSJ paras were then attacked and equally eliminated being finished by the British XII Infantry corps. Our aviation lost many planes but it was a great Allied victory that should stop cold the German ambitions in Cyrenaica!




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Post #: 57
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/9/2021 9:28:46 AM   
boudi

 

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Status: offline 		Good job.

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Post #: 58
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/10/2021 6:58:55 AM   
Marcinos1985

 

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quote:


The consequences of the attack on Italy on the first move and the subsequent capture of Libya. A significant advantage for the allies despite the mobilization penalty for the United States.


May I ask why did you want to kick him out of NA so hard? Ofc there will be a constant threat to Italy if you let him have NA, but perhaps it's a threat you can live with, I don't really know. At the same time, push into Russia will be harder without those 3 (now 2?) tanks. Very curious how will this play out.

As DAK event fired, the lost tank will probably be irreplacable, unless Germany didn't buy panzers up to the limit, but it's hard to imagine they would not.

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Post #: 59
RE: TAIFUN (Allies) vs IIo4Tu (Axis) Full game 1939 - 6/10/2021 4:09:41 PM   
Taifun


Posts: 932
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: Spain
Status: offline 		January 17-31 1941
Minor skirmishes in Libya. After their setback, the Germans are most probably reassessing their startegy. A new German infantry corps (mot) arrived at El Agheila and their 2 panzerkorps retreated behind… Sandtorms in the area hindered our reconnaissance planes…

In the South Front the Japanese are approaching our forts leading to Kweichow from 2 directions…




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La clé est l'état d'esprit

(in reply to Marcinos1985)
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